WEBVTT

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Can parents be held responsible
when#
their child commits a mass
shooting?##

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In this particular case, the
teenage#
shooter has already been
convicted.

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But, as William Brangham
reports, officials are##

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also seeking to prosecute his
parents in#

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: On November
30,#
2021, tragedy came to snowy
Oxford##

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High School in Michigan. A
student opened fire,#
killing four students, injuring
seven others.

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The gunman, then 15-year-old
Ethan Crumbley,##

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received a life sentence last
year. But now#
his parents, James and Jennifer

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fa
ce their own charges of
involuntary#
manslaughter. It is a
first-of-its-kind##

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effort to hold parents
criminally responsible#
for a school shooting done by
their child.

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WOMAN: This case is
unprecedented in#
Oakland County and perhaps the
state.

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Prosecutors
say#
the Crumbleys new Ethan was
troubled,##

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but acted negligently. James
Crumbley#
bought for his son the gun he
used##

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to kill his classmates.
Concerns#
flagged by the school went
unheeded.

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The day before the shooting, on
November 29,##

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Oxford High informed Jennifer
Crumbley#
that her son was looking

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on his phone. She texted him:
"LOL. I'm not#
mad. You have to learn not to
get caught."

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Hours before the shooting
began, teachers#
discovered this worksheet on
Ethan's desk##

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covered with violent warning
signs.#
Below a drawing of a gun, he
wrote:##

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"The thoughts won't stop. Help
me" and#
"Blood everywhere" and a
drawing of a bullet.

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When a teacher saw the sheet,#
he scratched much of it out,##

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including what appears to be a
shooting victim#
dripping with blood. Ethan's

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into school that morning, but
officials#
say they resisted taking him
home and##

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made no mention of any gun.
Shortly after#
they left, their son began his
rampage.

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When news of the shooting#
got out in the community,##

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Jennifer Crumbley texted her
son, writing:#
"Ethan

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Karen McDonald is the Oakland
county prosecutor.

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KAREN MCDONALD, Oakland
County,#
Michigan, Prosecutor: Th

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that a parent could read those

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to
a deadly weapon that they
gave him is#
unconscionable, and I think
it's criminal.

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The defense
claims#
the Crumbley had no way of
knowing how##

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troubled their son really was.#
Both have pleaded not guilty.

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For more on this case and its
broader#
implications, I'm joined by
Ekow Yankah.##

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He's the Thomas M. Cooley
professor#
of law at the University of
Michigan.

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Professor Yankah, thank you so
much#
for being back on the
"NewsHour."

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I mean, as a scholar of the
law, what#
do you make of this case? I
mean,##

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it is not that common that we
hold other#
people responsible for the

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EK
OW YANKAH, University of
Michigan#
Law School: No, that's exactly
right.

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In fact, one of the fi

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is that, even under some really
awful facts,#
when other people take action,
that, as we say,##

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severs the causal chain. It
makes it not your#
action. It's a classic example
in first-year##

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law school to say that, if you
give somebody a#
gun and they threaten to kill
themselves, and##

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you give them the gun, you
encourage them to kill#
themselves, and they do, you're
not responsible.

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So, even under odious
circumstances, you're#
typically not responsible. That
being said,##

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one of the things we do to our
law students#
is push them on how far these
examples can##

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go. How terrible do I have to
make#
the facts? How odious do I have
to##

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make it? How close to the edge
before#
you finally say the law has to
give?

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And the truth is, if I was
coming up with an exam#
question, I couldn't come up
with facts that were##

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more upsetting, more cutting,
and seemingly more#
disturbing than the ones we
have in this case.

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Given all of#
that about the law, what do
you##

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think are the biggest
challenges facing the#
prosecutio

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EKOW YANKAH: So, I think there#
are two challenges. The one
we##

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already spoke about is just
the#

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An
d that's something that is
deep in our legal#
culture. That is, human beings
ar

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for their own actions. And so
the prosecution here#
is going to be going up against
what every judge,##

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what every other lawyer has
learned,#
what every defense lawyer has
learned,##

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and what they're going to be
conveying#
to the jury as our bedrock

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Bu
t setting aside the legal
machinations,#
there's also just what the law
reflects,##

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the kind of moral intuition
that we#
aren't responsible when other
people##

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do bad things. And that's going
to be true#
even when these facts are
heartbreaking,##

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because you're going to have
people thinking#
about, of course, I'm doing my
best to be a##

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great parent. Of course, I'm
trying to bring#
my child up to be successful
and flourishing.

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But what if you have a child
who's difficult,#
problematic, has shoplifted,
gets in fights##

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at school? I think, quite
outside of the dry,#
technical legal language,
there's going to be##

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a lot of people out there who
just think, when,#
13, 16, 17, 18, when will it be
the case that I##

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can't be held responsible, no
matter the best I#
do for my child, for their
abhorrent behavior?

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Does the fact
that Michigan#
passed a law that in essence
makes it a crime##

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for you not to secure a gun and
a minor#
gets access to that, doesn't
that imply##

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sort of de facto that what
these parents#
did at the time wasn't against
the law?

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EKOW YANKAH: Well, you're
certainly right that,#
in the wake of the of highly
visible events,##

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we often pass laws. And that is
by some#
people going to be taken as a
defense.

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But, of course, sometimes we
pass laws to#
make our legal responsibilities
more clear##

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or to help fill a lacuna. And
to be perfectly#
honest, criminal law scholars
know that we##

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often pass laws just to add
penalties#
to things that are already
illegal.

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So, for example, I remember
when Philadelphia#
passed an anti-carjacking
statute. It was,##

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frankly, an opportunity for
public officials#
to say we're doing something
about it. But##

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nobody really thinks that,
before that#
law was passed, carjacking was
legal.

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So, of course, they will make
the argument#
that this wasn't illegal when
it happened,##

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but the prosecutor's going to
argue#
that this was criminally

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ev
en under the slew of statues
they had#
before this specific law was
passed.

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, this
prosecutor#
has made it very clear that she
hopes that##

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this will spur other gun owners
basically to#
do a better job of securing
their firearms.

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And I'm just curious if you
think that, if#
this prosecution is successful,
that this##

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will spur other prosecutors in
other states maybe#
elsewhere in the country to
take on similar cases.

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EKOW YANKAH: Look, the law
lives on precedent.#
And I certainly think it's the
case, as you said,##

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that given that we have this
kind of deep#
legal intuition that you're
never going to##

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be responsible for somebody
else's acts, a#
successful prosecution in a
highly visible##

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and painful case of a school
shooting#
is going to rocket across the
country.

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It's not an accident that it'll
be on PBS,#
on all the major news channels.
And that##

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will give prosecutors one more
tool in their#
arsenal. Because of the nature
of precedent,##

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and because any time you do
something#
unprecedented, legal actors are
going to##

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take notice, I think there's no
question that#
prosecutors are going to use
this as a tool.

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Sadly, we should also admit
these cases are#
incredibly painful and
incredibly visible##

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and all too repetitive. And so
the fact that#
there's a successful
prosecution in this case##

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will -- if there's a successful
prosecution in#
this case, there will almost
certainly be another.

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WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right,
Ekow Yankah,##

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professor of l

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EKOW YANKAH: Thank you for
having me.