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>> Sreenivasan: AS WE REPORTED

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AT THE TOP OF THE PROGRAM, THE

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CRISIS IN HAITI AFTER THE

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ASSASSINATION OF ITS PRESIDENT

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IS CONTINUING, AND OFFICIALS

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THERE ARE ASKING FOR HELP.

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I SPOKE WITH MARLENE DAUT,

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PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN DIASPORA

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STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF

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VIRGINIA, ABOUT HAITI'S HISTORY,

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WHAT MAY COME NEXT, AND THE

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CURRENT POLITICAL SITUATION

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THERE.

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>> POLITICALLY, IN HAITI RIGHT

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NOW, THERE'’’S A LOT OF CONFUSION.

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THERE'S CONFUSION ABOUT WHO IS

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RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

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WE HAVE TWO PRIME MINISTERS,

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YOU KNOW, SORT OF IN QUOTATION

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MARKS, CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE

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RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

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SO THAT WOULD BE CLAUDE JOSEPH

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AND ARIEL HENRY.

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WE ALSO HAVE THE U.N. SPECIAL

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ENVOY DECLARING THAT IT'S JOSEPH

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WHO IS IN CHARGE.

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THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER

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OR NOT SHE ACTUALLY HAS THE

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AUTHORITY TO-- TO PROCLAIM THAT.

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AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE

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ASKING THAT SAME QUESTION

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WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF ANSWERS

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THAT ARE DEFINITIVE.

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>> Sreenivasan: SO HOW DOES THIS

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TRANSLATE INTO THE FUNCTIONING

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OF GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A

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QUESTION OF WHOSE ORDER

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ULTIMATELY TO FOLLOW?

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I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE

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SUPREME COURTS OR YOU TALK ABOUT

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ANY KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTY

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OR RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE

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GOVERNMENT HAS.

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>> THERE ARE ACTUALLY VERY FEW

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ELECTED OFFICIALS AND GOVERNMENT

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OFFICIALS IN PLACE AT THE

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MOMENT.

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AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT

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PRESIDENT MOISE HAD ALLOWED

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PARLIAMENT TO LAPSE.

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AND SO THE PARLIAMENT WAS

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ESSENTIALLY DISSOLVED AND HAS

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BEEN IN THAT STATE FOR MORE THAN

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A YEAR.

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SO HE'S BEEN RULING BY WHAT IS

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CALLED DECREE AND ESSENTIALLY

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RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT ON HIS

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OWN.

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THE REASON FOR THE CONFUSION

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ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER IS THAT

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HE HAD DECLARED A NEW PRIME

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MINISTER WAS TO TAKE OFFICE, BUT

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THAT PERSON, HENRY, HAD NOT YET

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BEEN SWORN IN.

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SO I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY--

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AND WITH THE SUPREME COURT

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JUSTICE HAVING DIED OF COVID

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RECENTLY, WHICH IS SORT OF

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ANOTHER STRAIN IN THE STORY OF

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PRESIDENT MOISE'S LACK OF REALLY

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RESPONDING TO THE COVID-19

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CRISIS AND GETTING VACCINATIONS

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FOR THE HAITIAN PEOPLE

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ESPECIALLY.

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SO THERE'S REALLY A POWER VACUUM

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WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT-- IN THIS

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CASE, IT'’’S NOT JUST A METAPHOR.

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IT'S ACTUALLY VERY TRUE-- WHERE

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WE SEE NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHO'S

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IN CHARGE, AND, OR WHO HAS THE

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AUTHORITY TO EVEN SAY WHO WOULD

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BE IN CHARGE.

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>> Sreenivasan: BUT WHAT DO YOU

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GATHER FROM THE COMPOSITION OF

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THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WERE

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PART OF THE ASSASSINATION?

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>> IT'’’S VERY INTERESTING.

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SO, THE MAJORITY OF THEM APPEAR

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TO BE COLOMBIAN NATIONALS, WITH

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TWO HAITIAN-AMERICANS.

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I THINK THAT THE COMPOSITION OF

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THAT GROUP SAYS A LOT ABOUT, YOU

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KNOW, WHO THEY ARE, BUT DOESN'T

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NECESSARILY TELL US ANYTHING

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REALLY ABOUT WHO SENT THEM.

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AND THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT IS THE

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MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS

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PUZZLE, WHICH REALLY DOES REMAIN

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A PUZZLE AT THIS MOMENT, IS THAT

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IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE THAT THE

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COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT IS

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INVOLVED, ALTHOUGH THIS IS--

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THESE ARE EARLY DAYS.

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AND I SUSPECT THAT THE

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INTERROGATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO

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REVEAL NEW INFORMATION.

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WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFORMATION

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GIVEN BY THOSE ARRESTED IS TO BE

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ALSO TRUSTED IS ANOTHER STORY.

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>> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, HOW DO

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WE CHANGE THE FRAME OF THE

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PERCEPTION OF HAITI?

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I MEAN, THIS PROGRAM, WE'VE GONE

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OUT AND DONE PIECES IN HAITI

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THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH

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POVERTY OR CRISIS.

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BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS

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USUALLY WHAT MAKES HEADLINES IN

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THE UNITED STATES, EITHER IN THE

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CONTEXT OF GOVERNMENT OR A

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NATURAL DISASTER.

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SO WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO JUST

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RESET THAT PERCEPTION?

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>> I THINK THAT THERE HAVE TO BE

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MORE AND LARGER STORIES TOLD

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ABOUT HAITI IN VARIOUS MEDIA

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OUTLETS.

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I THINK THAT THE STORY OF HAITI

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BECOMING THE FIRST NATION TO

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PERMANENTLY ABOLISH SLAVERY

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AFTER THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION IS

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SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE I STILL

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SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,

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JOURNALISTS, CLAIMING THAT

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ROLE FOR ENGLAND OR FOR FRANCE

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WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF

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THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW,

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NAPOLEON BONAPARTE HAD TRIED TO

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REINSTATE SLAVERY, WHICH IS

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EXACTLY WHAT LED TO THE

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HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT

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AND WHICH WAS STRUCK IN JANUARY

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OF 1804 AND RESULTED IN HAITI

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BECOMING, AFTER THAT, A COUPLE

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YEARS AFTER THAT, THE FIRST,

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QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BLACK REPUBLIC

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OF THE NEW WORLD.

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>> Sreenivasan: WHAT DO YOU SEE

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HAPPENING IN THIS SORT OF

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SHORTER TO MEDIUM TERM?

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>> WELL, THIS IS REALLY UP IN

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THE AIR.

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I THINK THAT IN THE SHORT TERM,

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BOTH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION,

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WHICH IS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE

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POLICE FORCE IN HAITI, NEEDS TO

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OCCUR.

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BUT I THINK THAT THERE DOES NEED

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TO BE SOME EXTERNAL

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INVESTIGATIONS IN TERMS OF WHO

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EXACTLY IS FUNDING THIS.

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YOU WOULD NEED A LOT OF MONEY TO

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SEND THIS CONVOY WITH THIS MANY

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PEOPLE ARMED THIS HEAVILY WITH

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THEIR VEHICLES, AND TO FIGURE

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OUT WHO ARE ALL THE PLAYERS

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INVOLVED IN THIS, AND IF THERE

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IS NOT SOME LARGER STORY.

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BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE

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EASY ANSWER IS TO SAY THAT THE

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HAITIAN OPPOSITION GROUPS MUST

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BE RESPONSIBLE.

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BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WITH

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THIS KNOWLEDGE OF WHO, THE

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MAKEUP OF THE ASSASSINS, THAT

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THERE IS LIKELY A LARGER STORY

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THAT WILL NEED TO BE UNCOVERED.

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>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

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UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA PROFESSOR

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MARLENE DAUT, THANKS SO MUCH.

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>> THANK YOU.