>> Sreenivasan: AS WE REPORTED

AT THE TOP OF THE PROGRAM, THE

CRISIS IN HAITI AFTER THE

ASSASSINATION OF ITS PRESIDENT

IS CONTINUING, AND OFFICIALS

THERE ARE ASKING FOR HELP.

I SPOKE WITH MARLENE DAUT,

PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN DIASPORA

STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF

VIRGINIA, ABOUT HAITI'S HISTORY,

WHAT MAY COME NEXT, AND THE

CURRENT POLITICAL SITUATION

THERE.

>> POLITICALLY, IN HAITI RIGHT

NOW, THERE'’’S A LOT OF CONFUSION.

THERE'S CONFUSION ABOUT WHO IS

RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE TWO PRIME MINISTERS,

YOU KNOW, SORT OF IN QUOTATION

MARKS, CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE

RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

SO THAT WOULD BE CLAUDE JOSEPH

AND ARIEL HENRY.

WE ALSO HAVE THE U.N. SPECIAL

ENVOY DECLARING THAT IT'S JOSEPH

WHO IS IN CHARGE.

THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER

OR NOT SHE ACTUALLY HAS THE

AUTHORITY TO-- TO PROCLAIM THAT.

AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE

ASKING THAT SAME QUESTION

WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF ANSWERS

THAT ARE DEFINITIVE.

>> Sreenivasan: SO HOW DOES THIS

TRANSLATE INTO THE FUNCTIONING

OF GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A

QUESTION OF WHOSE ORDER

ULTIMATELY TO FOLLOW?

I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE

SUPREME COURTS OR YOU TALK ABOUT

ANY KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTY

OR RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE

GOVERNMENT HAS.

>> THERE ARE ACTUALLY VERY FEW

ELECTED OFFICIALS AND GOVERNMENT

OFFICIALS IN PLACE AT THE

MOMENT.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT

PRESIDENT MOISE HAD ALLOWED

PARLIAMENT TO LAPSE.

AND SO THE PARLIAMENT WAS

ESSENTIALLY DISSOLVED AND HAS

BEEN IN THAT STATE FOR MORE THAN

A YEAR.

SO HE'S BEEN RULING BY WHAT IS

CALLED DECREE AND ESSENTIALLY

RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT ON HIS

OWN.

THE REASON FOR THE CONFUSION

ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER IS THAT

HE HAD DECLARED A NEW PRIME

MINISTER WAS TO TAKE OFFICE, BUT

THAT PERSON, HENRY, HAD NOT YET

BEEN SWORN IN.

SO I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY--

AND WITH THE SUPREME COURT

JUSTICE HAVING DIED OF COVID

RECENTLY, WHICH IS SORT OF

ANOTHER STRAIN IN THE STORY OF

PRESIDENT MOISE'S LACK OF REALLY

RESPONDING TO THE COVID-19

CRISIS AND GETTING VACCINATIONS

FOR THE HAITIAN PEOPLE

ESPECIALLY.

SO THERE'S REALLY A POWER VACUUM

WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT-- IN THIS

CASE, IT'’’S NOT JUST A METAPHOR.

IT'S ACTUALLY VERY TRUE-- WHERE

WE SEE NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHO'S

IN CHARGE, AND, OR WHO HAS THE

AUTHORITY TO EVEN SAY WHO WOULD

BE IN CHARGE.

>> Sreenivasan: BUT WHAT DO YOU

GATHER FROM THE COMPOSITION OF

THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WERE

PART OF THE ASSASSINATION?

>> IT'’’S VERY INTERESTING.

SO, THE MAJORITY OF THEM APPEAR

TO BE COLOMBIAN NATIONALS, WITH

TWO HAITIAN-AMERICANS.

I THINK THAT THE COMPOSITION OF

THAT GROUP SAYS A LOT ABOUT, YOU

KNOW, WHO THEY ARE, BUT DOESN'T

NECESSARILY TELL US ANYTHING

REALLY ABOUT WHO SENT THEM.

AND THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT IS THE

MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS

PUZZLE, WHICH REALLY DOES REMAIN

A PUZZLE AT THIS MOMENT, IS THAT

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE THAT THE

COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT IS

INVOLVED, ALTHOUGH THIS IS--

THESE ARE EARLY DAYS.

AND I SUSPECT THAT THE

INTERROGATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO

REVEAL NEW INFORMATION.

WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFORMATION

GIVEN BY THOSE ARRESTED IS TO BE

ALSO TRUSTED IS ANOTHER STORY.

>> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, HOW DO

WE CHANGE THE FRAME OF THE

PERCEPTION OF HAITI?

I MEAN, THIS PROGRAM, WE'VE GONE

OUT AND DONE PIECES IN HAITI

THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH

POVERTY OR CRISIS.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS

USUALLY WHAT MAKES HEADLINES IN

THE UNITED STATES, EITHER IN THE

CONTEXT OF GOVERNMENT OR A

NATURAL DISASTER.

SO WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO JUST

RESET THAT PERCEPTION?

>> I THINK THAT THERE HAVE TO BE

MORE AND LARGER STORIES TOLD

ABOUT HAITI IN VARIOUS MEDIA

OUTLETS.

I THINK THAT THE STORY OF HAITI

BECOMING THE FIRST NATION TO

PERMANENTLY ABOLISH SLAVERY

AFTER THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION IS

SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE I STILL

SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,

JOURNALISTS, CLAIMING THAT

ROLE FOR ENGLAND OR FOR FRANCE

WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF

THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW,

NAPOLEON BONAPARTE HAD TRIED TO

REINSTATE SLAVERY, WHICH IS

EXACTLY WHAT LED TO THE

HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT

AND WHICH WAS STRUCK IN JANUARY

OF 1804 AND RESULTED IN HAITI

BECOMING, AFTER THAT, A COUPLE

YEARS AFTER THAT, THE FIRST,

QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BLACK REPUBLIC

OF THE NEW WORLD.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT DO YOU SEE

HAPPENING IN THIS SORT OF

SHORTER TO MEDIUM TERM?

>> WELL, THIS IS REALLY UP IN

THE AIR.

I THINK THAT IN THE SHORT TERM,

BOTH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION,

WHICH IS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE

POLICE FORCE IN HAITI, NEEDS TO

OCCUR.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE DOES NEED

TO BE SOME EXTERNAL

INVESTIGATIONS IN TERMS OF WHO

EXACTLY IS FUNDING THIS.

YOU WOULD NEED A LOT OF MONEY TO

SEND THIS CONVOY WITH THIS MANY

PEOPLE ARMED THIS HEAVILY WITH

THEIR VEHICLES, AND TO FIGURE

OUT WHO ARE ALL THE PLAYERS

INVOLVED IN THIS, AND IF THERE

IS NOT SOME LARGER STORY.

BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE

EASY ANSWER IS TO SAY THAT THE

HAITIAN OPPOSITION GROUPS MUST

BE RESPONSIBLE.

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WITH

THIS KNOWLEDGE OF WHO, THE

MAKEUP OF THE ASSASSINS, THAT

THERE IS LIKELY A LARGER STORY

THAT WILL NEED TO BE UNCOVERED.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA PROFESSOR

MARLENE DAUT, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.