WEBVTT 00:00.133 --> 00:01.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: AS WE REPORTED 00:01.066 --> 00:02.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AT THE TOP OF THE PROGRAM, THE 00:02.133 --> 00:03.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CRISIS IN HAITI AFTER THE 00:03.533 --> 00:04.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ASSASSINATION OF ITS PRESIDENT 00:04.900 --> 00:06.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% IS CONTINUING, AND OFFICIALS 00:06.866 --> 00:08.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THERE ARE ASKING FOR HELP. 00:08.600 --> 00:10.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I SPOKE WITH MARLENE DAUT, 00:10.166 --> 00:11.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN DIASPORA 00:11.733 --> 00:12.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF 00:12.733 --> 00:14.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% VIRGINIA, ABOUT HAITI'S HISTORY, 00:14.733 --> 00:16.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WHAT MAY COME NEXT, AND THE 00:16.000 --> 00:17.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CURRENT POLITICAL SITUATION 00:17.600 --> 00:19.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THERE. 00:19.333 --> 00:20.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> POLITICALLY, IN HAITI RIGHT 00:20.300 --> 00:22.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% NOW, THERE'’’S A LOT OF CONFUSION. 00:22.266 --> 00:24.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THERE'S CONFUSION ABOUT WHO IS 00:24.566 --> 00:25.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RUNNING THE COUNTRY. 00:25.866 --> 00:29.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WE HAVE TWO PRIME MINISTERS, 00:29.633 --> 00:30.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% YOU KNOW, SORT OF IN QUOTATION 00:30.566 --> 00:32.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MARKS, CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE 00:32.000 --> 00:32.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RUNNING THE COUNTRY. 00:32.866 --> 00:34.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO THAT WOULD BE CLAUDE JOSEPH 00:34.666 --> 00:36.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND ARIEL HENRY. 00:36.466 --> 00:37.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WE ALSO HAVE THE U.N. SPECIAL 00:37.666 --> 00:39.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ENVOY DECLARING THAT IT'S JOSEPH 00:39.966 --> 00:41.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WHO IS IN CHARGE. 00:41.266 --> 00:42.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER 00:42.266 --> 00:43.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OR NOT SHE ACTUALLY HAS THE 00:43.200 --> 00:45.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AUTHORITY TO-- TO PROCLAIM THAT. 00:45.900 --> 00:47.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE 00:47.966 --> 00:49.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ASKING THAT SAME QUESTION 00:49.866 --> 00:51.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF ANSWERS 00:51.833 --> 00:52.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THAT ARE DEFINITIVE. 00:52.866 --> 00:54.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: SO HOW DOES THIS 00:54.600 --> 00:56.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TRANSLATE INTO THE FUNCTIONING 00:56.700 --> 00:58.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OF GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A 00:58.233 --> 01:00.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% QUESTION OF WHOSE ORDER 01:00.100 --> 01:01.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ULTIMATELY TO FOLLOW? 01:01.400 --> 01:02.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE 01:02.600 --> 01:03.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SUPREME COURTS OR YOU TALK ABOUT 01:03.900 --> 01:05.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ANY KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTY 01:05.766 --> 01:06.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OR RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE 01:06.766 --> 01:08.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GOVERNMENT HAS. 01:08.200 --> 01:09.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> THERE ARE ACTUALLY VERY FEW 01:09.733 --> 01:11.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ELECTED OFFICIALS AND GOVERNMENT 01:11.433 --> 01:13.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OFFICIALS IN PLACE AT THE 01:13.066 --> 01:14.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MOMENT. 01:14.000 --> 01:16.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT 01:16.300 --> 01:18.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PRESIDENT MOISE HAD ALLOWED 01:18.500 --> 01:19.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PARLIAMENT TO LAPSE. 01:19.766 --> 01:21.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND SO THE PARLIAMENT WAS 01:21.333 --> 01:22.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ESSENTIALLY DISSOLVED AND HAS 01:22.966 --> 01:24.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BEEN IN THAT STATE FOR MORE THAN 01:24.300 --> 01:25.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% A YEAR. 01:25.266 --> 01:26.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO HE'S BEEN RULING BY WHAT IS 01:26.800 --> 01:28.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CALLED DECREE AND ESSENTIALLY 01:28.666 --> 01:30.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT ON HIS 01:30.166 --> 01:31.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OWN. 01:31.100 --> 01:32.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THE REASON FOR THE CONFUSION 01:32.466 --> 01:33.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER IS THAT 01:33.766 --> 01:35.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% HE HAD DECLARED A NEW PRIME 01:35.600 --> 01:37.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MINISTER WAS TO TAKE OFFICE, BUT 01:37.333 --> 01:39.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THAT PERSON, HENRY, HAD NOT YET 01:39.800 --> 01:41.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BEEN SWORN IN. 01:41.166 --> 01:42.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY-- 01:42.966 --> 01:43.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND WITH THE SUPREME COURT 01:43.866 --> 01:45.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUSTICE HAVING DIED OF COVID 01:45.966 --> 01:47.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RECENTLY, WHICH IS SORT OF 01:47.733 --> 01:49.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ANOTHER STRAIN IN THE STORY OF 01:49.800 --> 01:52.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PRESIDENT MOISE'S LACK OF REALLY 01:52.033 --> 01:53.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RESPONDING TO THE COVID-19 01:53.500 --> 01:55.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CRISIS AND GETTING VACCINATIONS 01:55.566 --> 01:56.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% FOR THE HAITIAN PEOPLE 01:56.566 --> 01:57.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ESPECIALLY. 01:57.900 --> 01:59.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO THERE'S REALLY A POWER VACUUM 01:59.900 --> 02:01.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT-- IN THIS 02:01.233 --> 02:02.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CASE, IT'’’S NOT JUST A METAPHOR. 02:02.866 --> 02:05.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% IT'S ACTUALLY VERY TRUE-- WHERE 02:05.166 --> 02:07.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WE SEE NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHO'S 02:07.166 --> 02:08.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% IN CHARGE, AND, OR WHO HAS THE 02:08.900 --> 02:10.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AUTHORITY TO EVEN SAY WHO WOULD 02:10.200 --> 02:11.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BE IN CHARGE. 02:11.066 --> 02:11.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: BUT WHAT DO YOU 02:11.933 --> 02:14.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GATHER FROM THE COMPOSITION OF 02:14.266 --> 02:15.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WERE 02:15.500 --> 02:17.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PART OF THE ASSASSINATION? 02:17.133 --> 02:18.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> IT'’’S VERY INTERESTING. 02:18.533 --> 02:20.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO, THE MAJORITY OF THEM APPEAR 02:20.700 --> 02:22.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TO BE COLOMBIAN NATIONALS, WITH 02:22.233 --> 02:24.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TWO HAITIAN-AMERICANS. 02:24.466 --> 02:26.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I THINK THAT THE COMPOSITION OF 02:26.300 --> 02:29.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THAT GROUP SAYS A LOT ABOUT, YOU 02:29.633 --> 02:31.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% KNOW, WHO THEY ARE, BUT DOESN'T 02:31.566 --> 02:33.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% NECESSARILY TELL US ANYTHING 02:33.233 --> 02:35.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% REALLY ABOUT WHO SENT THEM. 02:35.166 --> 02:36.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT IS THE 02:36.633 --> 02:37.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS 02:37.833 --> 02:39.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PUZZLE, WHICH REALLY DOES REMAIN 02:39.766 --> 02:42.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% A PUZZLE AT THIS MOMENT, IS THAT 02:42.800 --> 02:44.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE THAT THE 02:44.633 --> 02:45.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT IS 02:45.566 --> 02:47.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% INVOLVED, ALTHOUGH THIS IS-- 02:47.466 --> 02:49.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THESE ARE EARLY DAYS. 02:49.300 --> 02:50.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND I SUSPECT THAT THE 02:50.533 --> 02:52.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% INTERROGATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO 02:52.200 --> 02:53.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% REVEAL NEW INFORMATION. 02:53.966 --> 02:56.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFORMATION 02:56.200 --> 02:58.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% GIVEN BY THOSE ARRESTED IS TO BE 02:58.533 --> 03:01.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ALSO TRUSTED IS ANOTHER STORY. 03:01.000 --> 03:02.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, HOW DO 03:02.400 --> 03:05.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WE CHANGE THE FRAME OF THE 03:05.433 --> 03:06.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PERCEPTION OF HAITI? 03:06.933 --> 03:08.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I MEAN, THIS PROGRAM, WE'VE GONE 03:08.066 --> 03:09.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OUT AND DONE PIECES IN HAITI 03:09.733 --> 03:11.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH 03:11.033 --> 03:12.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% POVERTY OR CRISIS. 03:12.833 --> 03:14.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS 03:14.400 --> 03:16.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% USUALLY WHAT MAKES HEADLINES IN 03:16.366 --> 03:18.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THE UNITED STATES, EITHER IN THE 03:18.300 --> 03:19.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% CONTEXT OF GOVERNMENT OR A 03:19.700 --> 03:21.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% NATURAL DISASTER. 03:21.200 --> 03:25.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO JUST 03:25.133 --> 03:28.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% RESET THAT PERCEPTION? 03:28.066 --> 03:29.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> I THINK THAT THERE HAVE TO BE 03:29.833 --> 03:32.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MORE AND LARGER STORIES TOLD 03:32.700 --> 03:35.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ABOUT HAITI IN VARIOUS MEDIA 03:35.133 --> 03:36.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OUTLETS. 03:36.333 --> 03:39.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I THINK THAT THE STORY OF HAITI 03:39.233 --> 03:41.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BECOMING THE FIRST NATION TO 03:41.400 --> 03:43.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PERMANENTLY ABOLISH SLAVERY 03:43.066 --> 03:45.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AFTER THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION IS 03:45.000 --> 03:47.100 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE I STILL 03:47.100 --> 03:49.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, 03:49.066 --> 03:50.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JOURNALISTS, CLAIMING THAT 03:50.966 --> 03:53.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ROLE FOR ENGLAND OR FOR FRANCE 03:53.200 --> 03:55.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF 03:55.066 --> 03:56.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, 03:56.500 --> 03:57.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% NAPOLEON BONAPARTE HAD TRIED TO 03:57.833 --> 03:59.333 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% REINSTATE SLAVERY, WHICH IS 03:59.333 --> 04:00.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% EXACTLY WHAT LED TO THE 04:00.533 --> 04:02.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT 04:02.766 --> 04:04.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AND WHICH WAS STRUCK IN JANUARY 04:04.366 --> 04:06.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OF 1804 AND RESULTED IN HAITI 04:06.833 --> 04:08.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BECOMING, AFTER THAT, A COUPLE 04:08.166 --> 04:09.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% YEARS AFTER THAT, THE FIRST, 04:09.633 --> 04:10.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BLACK REPUBLIC 04:10.800 --> 04:11.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OF THE NEW WORLD. 04:11.966 --> 04:12.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: WHAT DO YOU SEE 04:12.700 --> 04:14.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% HAPPENING IN THIS SORT OF 04:14.300 --> 04:16.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SHORTER TO MEDIUM TERM? 04:16.466 --> 04:17.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> WELL, THIS IS REALLY UP IN 04:17.900 --> 04:18.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THE AIR. 04:18.700 --> 04:21.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I THINK THAT IN THE SHORT TERM, 04:21.033 --> 04:22.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BOTH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION, 04:22.933 --> 04:25.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% WHICH IS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE 04:25.000 --> 04:27.566 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% POLICE FORCE IN HAITI, NEEDS TO 04:27.566 --> 04:28.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OCCUR. 04:28.200 --> 04:29.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BUT I THINK THAT THERE DOES NEED 04:29.433 --> 04:30.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TO BE SOME EXTERNAL 04:30.733 --> 04:33.133 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% INVESTIGATIONS IN TERMS OF WHO 04:33.133 --> 04:34.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% EXACTLY IS FUNDING THIS. 04:34.666 --> 04:36.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% YOU WOULD NEED A LOT OF MONEY TO 04:36.400 --> 04:38.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% SEND THIS CONVOY WITH THIS MANY 04:38.300 --> 04:40.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% PEOPLE ARMED THIS HEAVILY WITH 04:40.433 --> 04:42.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THEIR VEHICLES, AND TO FIGURE 04:42.966 --> 04:44.400 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% OUT WHO ARE ALL THE PLAYERS 04:44.400 --> 04:45.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% INVOLVED IN THIS, AND IF THERE 04:45.933 --> 04:48.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% IS NOT SOME LARGER STORY. 04:48.066 --> 04:49.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE 04:49.800 --> 04:51.800 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% EASY ANSWER IS TO SAY THAT THE 04:51.800 --> 04:53.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% HAITIAN OPPOSITION GROUPS MUST 04:53.166 --> 04:54.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BE RESPONSIBLE. 04:54.300 --> 04:55.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WITH 04:55.600 --> 04:58.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THIS KNOWLEDGE OF WHO, THE 04:58.033 --> 04:59.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MAKEUP OF THE ASSASSINS, THAT 04:59.666 --> 05:01.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THERE IS LIKELY A LARGER STORY 05:01.300 --> 05:03.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% THAT WILL NEED TO BE UNCOVERED. 05:03.300 --> 05:03.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT. 05:03.933 --> 05:05.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA PROFESSOR 05:05.000 --> 05:06.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MARLENE DAUT, THANKS SO MUCH. 05:06.633 --> 05:10.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% >> THANK YOU.