>> Sreenivasan: AS WE REPORTED
AT THE TOP OF THE PROGRAM, THE
CRISIS IN HAITI AFTER THE
ASSASSINATION OF ITS PRESIDENT
IS CONTINUING, AND OFFICIALS
THERE ARE ASKING FOR HELP.
I SPOKE WITH MARLENE DAUT,
PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN DIASPORA
STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
VIRGINIA, ABOUT HAITI'S HISTORY,
WHAT MAY COME NEXT, AND THE
CURRENT POLITICAL SITUATION
THERE.
>> POLITICALLY, IN HAITI RIGHT
NOW, THERE'’’S A LOT OF CONFUSION.
THERE'S CONFUSION ABOUT WHO IS
RUNNING THE COUNTRY.
WE HAVE TWO PRIME MINISTERS,
YOU KNOW, SORT OF IN QUOTATION
MARKS, CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE
RUNNING THE COUNTRY.
SO THAT WOULD BE CLAUDE JOSEPH
AND ARIEL HENRY.
WE ALSO HAVE THE U.N. SPECIAL
ENVOY DECLARING THAT IT'S JOSEPH
WHO IS IN CHARGE.
THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER
OR NOT SHE ACTUALLY HAS THE
AUTHORITY TO-- TO PROCLAIM THAT.
AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE
ASKING THAT SAME QUESTION
WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF ANSWERS
THAT ARE DEFINITIVE.
>> Sreenivasan: SO HOW DOES THIS
TRANSLATE INTO THE FUNCTIONING
OF GOVERNMENT WHEN THERE IS A
QUESTION OF WHOSE ORDER
ULTIMATELY TO FOLLOW?
I MEAN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
SUPREME COURTS OR YOU TALK ABOUT
ANY KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVE DUTY
OR RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAS.
>> THERE ARE ACTUALLY VERY FEW
ELECTED OFFICIALS AND GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS IN PLACE AT THE
MOMENT.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT
PRESIDENT MOISE HAD ALLOWED
PARLIAMENT TO LAPSE.
AND SO THE PARLIAMENT WAS
ESSENTIALLY DISSOLVED AND HAS
BEEN IN THAT STATE FOR MORE THAN
A YEAR.
SO HE'S BEEN RULING BY WHAT IS
CALLED DECREE AND ESSENTIALLY
RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT ON HIS
OWN.
THE REASON FOR THE CONFUSION
ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER IS THAT
HE HAD DECLARED A NEW PRIME
MINISTER WAS TO TAKE OFFICE, BUT
THAT PERSON, HENRY, HAD NOT YET
BEEN SWORN IN.
SO I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY--
AND WITH THE SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE HAVING DIED OF COVID
RECENTLY, WHICH IS SORT OF
ANOTHER STRAIN IN THE STORY OF
PRESIDENT MOISE'S LACK OF REALLY
RESPONDING TO THE COVID-19
CRISIS AND GETTING VACCINATIONS
FOR THE HAITIAN PEOPLE
ESPECIALLY.
SO THERE'S REALLY A POWER VACUUM
WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT-- IN THIS
CASE, IT'’’S NOT JUST A METAPHOR.
IT'S ACTUALLY VERY TRUE-- WHERE
WE SEE NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHO'S
IN CHARGE, AND, OR WHO HAS THE
AUTHORITY TO EVEN SAY WHO WOULD
BE IN CHARGE.
>> Sreenivasan: BUT WHAT DO YOU
GATHER FROM THE COMPOSITION OF
THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WERE
PART OF THE ASSASSINATION?
>> IT'’’S VERY INTERESTING.
SO, THE MAJORITY OF THEM APPEAR
TO BE COLOMBIAN NATIONALS, WITH
TWO HAITIAN-AMERICANS.
I THINK THAT THE COMPOSITION OF
THAT GROUP SAYS A LOT ABOUT, YOU
KNOW, WHO THEY ARE, BUT DOESN'T
NECESSARILY TELL US ANYTHING
REALLY ABOUT WHO SENT THEM.
AND THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT IS THE
MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS
PUZZLE, WHICH REALLY DOES REMAIN
A PUZZLE AT THIS MOMENT, IS THAT
IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE THAT THE
COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT IS
INVOLVED, ALTHOUGH THIS IS--
THESE ARE EARLY DAYS.
AND I SUSPECT THAT THE
INTERROGATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO
REVEAL NEW INFORMATION.
WHETHER OR NOT THAT INFORMATION
GIVEN BY THOSE ARRESTED IS TO BE
ALSO TRUSTED IS ANOTHER STORY.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, HOW DO
WE CHANGE THE FRAME OF THE
PERCEPTION OF HAITI?
I MEAN, THIS PROGRAM, WE'VE GONE
OUT AND DONE PIECES IN HAITI
THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH
POVERTY OR CRISIS.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS
USUALLY WHAT MAKES HEADLINES IN
THE UNITED STATES, EITHER IN THE
CONTEXT OF GOVERNMENT OR A
NATURAL DISASTER.
SO WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO JUST
RESET THAT PERCEPTION?
>> I THINK THAT THERE HAVE TO BE
MORE AND LARGER STORIES TOLD
ABOUT HAITI IN VARIOUS MEDIA
OUTLETS.
I THINK THAT THE STORY OF HAITI
BECOMING THE FIRST NATION TO
PERMANENTLY ABOLISH SLAVERY
AFTER THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION IS
SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE I STILL
SEE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,
JOURNALISTS, CLAIMING THAT
ROLE FOR ENGLAND OR FOR FRANCE
WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF
THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW,
NAPOLEON BONAPARTE HAD TRIED TO
REINSTATE SLAVERY, WHICH IS
EXACTLY WHAT LED TO THE
HAITIAN INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT
AND WHICH WAS STRUCK IN JANUARY
OF 1804 AND RESULTED IN HAITI
BECOMING, AFTER THAT, A COUPLE
YEARS AFTER THAT, THE FIRST,
QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BLACK REPUBLIC
OF THE NEW WORLD.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT DO YOU SEE
HAPPENING IN THIS SORT OF
SHORTER TO MEDIUM TERM?
>> WELL, THIS IS REALLY UP IN
THE AIR.
I THINK THAT IN THE SHORT TERM,
BOTH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION,
WHICH IS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE
POLICE FORCE IN HAITI, NEEDS TO
OCCUR.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE DOES NEED
TO BE SOME EXTERNAL
INVESTIGATIONS IN TERMS OF WHO
EXACTLY IS FUNDING THIS.
YOU WOULD NEED A LOT OF MONEY TO
SEND THIS CONVOY WITH THIS MANY
PEOPLE ARMED THIS HEAVILY WITH
THEIR VEHICLES, AND TO FIGURE
OUT WHO ARE ALL THE PLAYERS
INVOLVED IN THIS, AND IF THERE
IS NOT SOME LARGER STORY.
BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE
EASY ANSWER IS TO SAY THAT THE
HAITIAN OPPOSITION GROUPS MUST
BE RESPONSIBLE.
BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WITH
THIS KNOWLEDGE OF WHO, THE
MAKEUP OF THE ASSASSINS, THAT
THERE IS LIKELY A LARGER STORY
THAT WILL NEED TO BE UNCOVERED.
>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.
UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA PROFESSOR
MARLENE DAUT, THANKS SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.