>> Sreenivasan: CAROLINE CHEN,
WHO COVERS PUBLIC HEALTH FOR
"PROPUBLICA," JOINED ME FOR
MORE ABOUT THE CONTINUING
COVID-19 RISK AND VACCINE RATES
AROUND THE WORLD.
CAROLINE, ONE OF THE REASONS WE
ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IS
NEW DATA THAT'S COME OUT THAT
SHOWS HOW SIGNIFICANT COVID IS
AS A CAUSE OF DEATH, ESPECIALLY
IN PEOPLE THAT ARE 35-54.
>> NEW DATA THAT HAS COME OUT
ANALYZING THAT, SORT OF, BURDEN
OF MORTALITY HAS SHOWN THAT FOR
35-54, AT SOME POINT, SOME
MONTHS IN THIS PAST PANDEMIC,
COVID HAS BEEN THE NUMBER ONE
CAUSE OF DEATH.
>> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME, OR AT
LEAST EARLY ON, WE WERE WORRIED
ABOUT THE ELDERLY, WE WERE
WORRIED ABOUT THE AUTO IMMUNE
SUPPRESSED.
IS THIS POPULATION, SAY FOR
EXAMPLE, IN SEPTEMBER, THE 35-54
YEAR OLDS, ARE THE BULK OF THESE
PEOPLE DYING BECAUSE THEY ARE
UNVACCINATED?
>> I WOULD SAY THE BULK OF THESE
PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING ARE
DEFINITELY UNVACCINATED.
AND I THINK WE HAVE THIS ADDED
FACTOR OF THE DELTA VARIANT, AND
WE'RE, SORT OF, SEEING THE
IMPACT HERE BECAUSE IT IS SO
MUCH MORE INFECTIOUS.
>> Sreenivasan: THE POPULATION
OF CONCERN FOR MILLIONS OF
AMERICANS RIGHT NOW ARE THEIR
SCHOOLCHILDREN THAT ARE IN SOME
WAY SHAPE OR FORM BACK IN FULL
TIME SCHOOL, PART TIME SCHOOL,
MAYBE SOME ARE IN ZOOM SCHOOL
CLASSES WHEN THOSE RECOMMENDED
DOSES OF VACCINES WILL BE
AVAILABLE TO CHILDREN.
>> YEAH, AND HARI, AS WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE OF TIMES
NOW, THE REASON WHY IT'S TAKEN
SO LONG IS BECAUSE CHILDREN MAY
BE GETTING A DIFFERENT DOSE,
PARTICULARLY THE REALLY YOUNG
CHILDREN.
AND SO, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A
RIGOROUS PROCESS TO ASSESS WHAT
IS, WHAT THEY CALL THE
"GOLDILOCKS DOSE."
YOU KNOW, SMALL, SMALLER, SO
IT'LL BE SAFER AND HAVE FEWER
REACTIONS, BUT A BIG ENOUGH DOSE
THAT IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE.
SO, WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS
THAT PFIZER HAS SUBMITTED DATA
TO THE F.D.A. FOR 5-11 YEAR
OLDS, AND I AM HOPEFUL TO SEE
THE 5-11s HAVE AN OPTION FOR
VACCINE BY THE END OF THIS YEAR.
>> Sreenivasan: WHILE AMERICANS,
SOME AMERICANS, STILL HESITATE
ON TAKING A VACCINE THAT HAS
BEEN AVAILABLE FOR MONTHS AND
MONTHS, WE STILL SEE A LARGE
SCALE DISPARITY ON OTHER PARTS
OF THE PLANET, OTHER COUNTRIES
THAT DON'T HAVE EITHER ACCESS OR
THE ABILITY TO DEPLOY THESE
VACCINES VERY QUICKLY.
AND SO, THERE'S THIS SORT OF
ETHICAL DILEMMA THAT'S ALSO
PRESENTING ITSELF TO AMERICANS.
SHOULD WE BE GETTING A THIRD
SHOT OR A BOOSTER SHOT BEFORE
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVEN GET
THEIR FIRST?
>> YEAH, I SO APPRECIATE YOU
BRINGING THIS UP, BECAUSE I
THINK SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T EVEN
REALIZE THAT THERE ARE COUNTRIES
THAT ARE WAITING FOR THEIR FIRST
SHOTS STILL.
AND I THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE THINKING
ABOUT THE IMPACT OF BOOSTERS,
ESPECIALLY OVER THE LONG TERM,
BUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE
HOSPITAL TODAY, WHO ARE BEING
HOSPITALIZED, PEOPLE WHO ARE
DYING, ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T
EVEN GOTTEN THEIR FIRST SHOT,
WHETHER THIS IS IN THE U.S. OR
OUTSIDE OF THE U.S.
AND SO, I THINK THIS IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR EVERY
GOVERNMENT TO BE GRAPPLING WITH.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE CONSORTIUM
CALLED COVAX, WHICH IS THE
W.H.O., CEPI, GAVI, A NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT ALLIANCES TOGETHER,
ARE ASKING COUNTRIES TO
BASICALLY GIVE UP THEIR SPOT IN
THE MANUFACTURING PRODUCTION AND
SWAP.
SO, SAY YOU'RE A WEALTHY NATION,
YOU HAVE A SHIPMENT OF MODERNA
VACCINE COMING YOUR WAY, BUT YOU
HAVE ABUNDANCE ALREADY.
CAN YOU SWAP YOUR SCHEDULE SLOT
WITH A COUNTRY THAT'S BEEN
WAITING FOR THEIR FIRST DOSES?
SO, I DO THINK THIS IS A VERY
HIGH LEVEL DISCUSSION, AND I
DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT THAT IF
YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN,
SORT OF, REFUSE YOUR BOOSTER, AT
THAT POINT, THE SHIPMENT MIGHT
HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE TO YOUR
LOCAL PHARMACY, RIGHT.
SO, THAT'S VERY HARD TO UNWIND.
BUT AT THIS MACRO LEVEL, I DO
THINK GLOBAL LEADERS NEED TO BE
REALLY THINKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT
THIS PICTURE AND THINKING ABOUT
OTHER COUNTRIES.
>> Sreenivasan: "PROPUBLICA'S"
CAROLINE CHEN, THANKS SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.