1 00:00:02,466 --> 00:00:05,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: But first: Our economics correspondent, Paul Solman, is continuing to chronicle some 2 00:00:05,033 --> 00:00:08,000 of the problems with inequality across the country. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Tonight, he looks at the possibility of moving up the economic ladder by moving out to other 4 00:00:14,266 --> 00:00:15,500 communities. 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:17,700 It's part of his weekly series, Making Sense. 6 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:20,533 KRISTEN HOPPER, Mother: I want better for my family. 7 00:00:20,533 --> 00:00:25,400 PAUL SOLMAN: Kristen Hopper expressing the economic motto of America even before the 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,533 states united. 9 00:00:27,533 --> 00:00:31,766 So, you want your kids to do better than you have done? 10 00:00:31,766 --> 00:00:34,033 KRISTEN HOPPER: A hundred percent. 11 00:00:34,033 --> 00:00:39,033 PAUL SOLMAN: The 35-year-old mother of four has gone the extra miles to make that happen. 12 00:00:41,066 --> 00:00:44,766 With help from the Interfaith Council for Action, a housing nonprofit, she's uprooted 13 00:00:44,766 --> 00:00:49,700 her family from hardscrabble Yonkers, New York, where she herself grew up, and has in 14 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:54,700 effect emigrated a mere 20 miles north, but in some respects a world away, to Ossining, 15 00:00:56,266 --> 00:00:58,433 New York. 16 00:00:58,433 --> 00:01:01,533 Ossining may be home to Sing Sing Prison, where criminals are still sent up the river 17 00:01:01,533 --> 00:01:06,533 from New York City, but this is suburbia, a place with far better prospects for 2-year-old 18 00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:11,833 twins Robert and Juliet (ph), 10-year-old Josie, 14-year-old Gio. 19 00:01:11,833 --> 00:01:16,833 KRISTEN HOPPER: The last place that I lived, it wasn't safe for my kids to walk around 20 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:18,133 in. 21 00:01:18,133 --> 00:01:19,200 There was a shoot-out. 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,833 They have all kinds of gangs. 23 00:01:20,833 --> 00:01:25,233 I know that, if I stayed there, my kids would be in the streets too. 24 00:01:27,233 --> 00:01:30,900 PAUL SOLMAN: But instead of the streets, Gio is in after-school clubs, pre-law, pre-business 25 00:01:32,033 --> 00:01:33,833 and The Ossining High School Current. 26 00:01:33,833 --> 00:01:36,133 GIOVANNI ROSADO, Student: I want to become a lawyer. 27 00:01:36,133 --> 00:01:38,533 And I'm trying to work on that. 28 00:01:38,533 --> 00:01:40,866 PAUL SOLMAN: So that you can do better economically? 29 00:01:40,866 --> 00:01:41,866 GIOVANNI ROSADO: Yes. 30 00:01:41,866 --> 00:01:43,400 Yes. 31 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:44,966 PAUL SOLMAN: How much better is it for you and for the kids... 32 00:01:44,966 --> 00:01:46,033 ROBERT BRUNNER, Fiance of Kristen Hopper: Oh my God. 33 00:01:46,033 --> 00:01:47,033 PAUL SOLMAN: ... to be living... 34 00:01:47,033 --> 00:01:48,300 ROBERT BRUNNER: It's amazing. 35 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:50,433 PAUL SOLMAN: Hopper's fiance, Robert Brunner. 36 00:01:50,433 --> 00:01:54,333 ROBERT BRUNNER: The safety is 1,000 times different than it is in a hood area. 37 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,333 And to fit in, in those places, you have to be rough and tough, and it's a totally different 38 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:02,633 child. 39 00:02:02,633 --> 00:02:04,666 It changes the child. 40 00:02:04,666 --> 00:02:08,633 PAUL SOLMAN: As it changed Brunner, who did and dealt drugs, like the hallucinogen PCP, 41 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,866 angel dust. 42 00:02:10,866 --> 00:02:14,233 ROBERT BRUNNER: It's embalming fluid and jet propellant. 43 00:02:14,233 --> 00:02:15,233 That's the mix of it. 44 00:02:15,233 --> 00:02:16,600 I used to sell it. 45 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,133 I used to do all that crap. 46 00:02:18,133 --> 00:02:20,166 Craziness. 47 00:02:20,166 --> 00:02:23,333 PAUL SOLMAN: The craziness climaxed when he crashed his car while high, was in a coma 48 00:02:23,333 --> 00:02:25,400 for 18 months. 49 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,966 ROBERT BRUNNER: My father -- like, when the doctor say, you know, your son has no brain 50 00:02:27,966 --> 00:02:32,966 activity, he's -- he won't even be able to function, so then they pull the plug on me. 51 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,100 They basically pull it out to see if you can breath on your own. 52 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:39,100 And then, if you do, you're good. 53 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:41,100 And if you don't, you're done. 54 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:45,100 PAUL SOLMAN: Do you think that a kid as smart as Gio is, would he have been vulnerable to 55 00:02:47,266 --> 00:02:49,366 taking angel dust? 56 00:02:49,366 --> 00:02:52,166 ROBERT BRUNNER: I think, if the crowd is doing it, I think he would do it. 57 00:02:52,166 --> 00:02:54,233 Peer pressure isn't easy, you know? 58 00:02:54,233 --> 00:02:58,533 PAUL SOLMAN: And thus the move upriver, different peers, different pressures. 59 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:01,333 Just ask Gio and Josie. 60 00:03:01,333 --> 00:03:05,433 GIOVANNI ROSADO: The people down in Yonkers, they are very mean, in a way. 61 00:03:06,166 --> 00:03:06,966 PAUL SOLMAN: Mean? 62 00:03:06,966 --> 00:03:09,000 GIOVANNI ROSADO: Yes. 63 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,666 They, like, get angry a lot and they like to pick on kids, and I didn't really enjoy 64 00:03:13,733 --> 00:03:15,833 that. 65 00:03:15,833 --> 00:03:18,033 JOSEPHINA GRAVENESE, Student: And, in Ossining, there's like kids who are like so nice to 66 00:03:18,033 --> 00:03:20,100 you. 67 00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:23,833 When it was my first day, the kids were asking me like, do you want to play and stuff? 68 00:03:23,833 --> 00:03:25,900 It's just not like Yonkers at all. 69 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:30,666 PAUL SOLMAN: But it could be that the people in Yonkers are as mean as they are, to use 70 00:03:32,633 --> 00:03:35,133 your word, because they don't see much of a future for themselves there. 71 00:03:35,133 --> 00:03:36,633 GIOVANNI ROSADO: That's true. 72 00:03:36,633 --> 00:03:39,233 PAUL SOLMAN: Where people here do see a future for themselves. 73 00:03:39,233 --> 00:03:40,466 GIOVANNI ROSADO: Yes. 74 00:03:40,466 --> 00:03:42,533 PAUL SOLMAN: Which is their mom's whole point. 75 00:03:42,533 --> 00:03:46,433 KRISTEN HOPPER: I want to show them that in order to be able to live well, and not live 76 00:03:48,466 --> 00:03:52,333 paycheck to paycheck, not have to be on social services, not that it's a bad thing -- and 77 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,166 I'm grateful for all the help that I have, but I definitely want them to do better than 78 00:03:58,166 --> 00:04:00,266 me. 79 00:04:00,266 --> 00:04:03,200 PAUL SOLMAN: Now, some might say that shouldn't be hard in this case, but here's the stark 80 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,200 fact that prompted our trip to Westchester: The odds no longer favor American kids doing 81 00:04:09,066 --> 00:04:11,100 better than their parents. 82 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:13,133 RAJ CHETTY, Stanford University: It's basically a coin flip at this point. 83 00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:15,066 NATHANIEL HENDREN, Harvard University: Yes, it's just a remarkable decline in our country 84 00:04:15,066 --> 00:04:17,200 in terms of the fraction of our kids earning more than their parents. 85 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,833 PAUL SOLMAN: Economists Raj Chetty and Nat Hendren study economic inequality, growing 86 00:04:23,266 --> 00:04:25,933 in America for decades, as you have so often heard. 87 00:04:25,933 --> 00:04:30,766 But inequality itself might not be so bad if we all had a fair shot at the platinum 88 00:04:30,766 --> 00:04:32,033 ring. 89 00:04:32,033 --> 00:04:34,133 Problem is: 90 00:04:34,133 --> 00:04:36,833 NATHANIEL HENDREN: The fraction of kids earning more than their parents has fallen from above 91 00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:39,933 90 percent four decades ago to about 50 percent today. 92 00:04:39,933 --> 00:04:44,933 PAUL SOLMAN: And so people who are worried about this for their kids are right to worry. 93 00:04:46,933 --> 00:04:48,966 NATHANIEL HENDREN: Absolutely. 94 00:04:48,966 --> 00:04:50,566 It used to be that everybody could count on this, that your kids were going to grow up 95 00:04:50,566 --> 00:04:52,666 to earn more than you. 96 00:04:52,666 --> 00:04:54,933 And, today, it's not just something that's a feature of the American economy. 97 00:04:54,933 --> 00:04:59,700 PAUL SOLMAN: So what can a poor family with an American dream do to increase the odds 98 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:00,933 of the kids moving up? 99 00:05:00,933 --> 00:05:03,000 Move out. 100 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,100 NATHANIEL HENDREN: We see that in places where kids of different economic backgrounds are 101 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,866 mixing in the same environment, those tend to be places where kids from low-income backgrounds 102 00:05:09,866 --> 00:05:11,900 rise up further in the income distribution. 103 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:16,833 PAUL SOLMAN: Kind of like Ossining, where a plaque commemorates Alexis de Tocqueville's 104 00:05:16,833 --> 00:05:18,900 visit almost 200 years ago. 105 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:23,900 He wrote: "When inequality is the general rule in society, the greatest inequalities 106 00:05:24,933 --> 00:05:26,400 attract no attention." 107 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,100 KRISTEN HOPPER: You have some really wealthy people. 108 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:31,300 You have some people in poverty. 109 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:32,466 It's kind of balanced. 110 00:05:32,466 --> 00:05:34,500 PAUL SOLMAN: And that helps your kids? 111 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:36,666 KRISTEN HOPPER: Yes, I want them to understand that there is hard life, that there's good 112 00:05:36,666 --> 00:05:38,766 life. 113 00:05:38,766 --> 00:05:41,133 PAUL SOLMAN: So they can see the good life, and they see it's attainable you mean? 114 00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:42,200 KRISTEN HOPPER: Yes. 115 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,466 Of course. 116 00:05:43,466 --> 00:05:45,500 Of course, because the reverse is also true. 117 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:49,400 RAJ CHETTY: Places that are more segregated by race or by income tend to have lower levels 118 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,400 of upward mobility. 119 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,633 PAUL SOLMAN: Consider inner-city Baltimore, which we visited two years ago, when violence 120 00:05:57,066 --> 00:06:00,666 erupted following the death of Freddie Gray in police custody. 121 00:06:00,666 --> 00:06:05,633 According to these young ministers-in-training, the near-absence of upward mobility fueled 122 00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:08,366 the protesters' anger. 123 00:06:08,366 --> 00:06:10,800 MAN: People aren't feeling like they can succeed in life or get above. 124 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,500 MAN: It's like we're all living in this dump or this war zone. 125 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:18,866 MAN: Living in the dilapidated areas which they live in, they feel like they're not loved. 126 00:06:18,866 --> 00:06:20,900 They feel like they're not cared for. 127 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:24,166 RAJ CHETTY: If you think about what's gone on in Baltimore, it's a place of tremendous 128 00:06:24,166 --> 00:06:26,133 concentrated poverty. 129 00:06:26,133 --> 00:06:29,833 PAUL SOLMAN: Chetty and Hendren have looked closely at Baltimore, reanalyzing data from 130 00:06:29,833 --> 00:06:34,833 a mid-1990s experiment in which the federal government gave poor families housing vouchers 131 00:06:35,833 --> 00:06:38,200 to move to better neighborhoods. 132 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,133 Twenty years later: 133 00:06:40,133 --> 00:06:43,766 RAJ CHETTY: The kids who moved at young ages are dramatically better as adults. 134 00:06:43,766 --> 00:06:45,833 They're earning 30 percent more. 135 00:06:45,833 --> 00:06:50,033 They're 27 percent more likely to go to college, something like 30 percent less likely to have 136 00:06:50,033 --> 00:06:55,033 a teenage pregnancy, relative to the kids who stayed in the high-poverty public housing 137 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,833 projects. 138 00:06:57,833 --> 00:07:01,300 And so there's clear scientific evidence that you can dramatically change kids' outcomes 139 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:03,100 just based on where they grow up. 140 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,066 PAUL SOLMAN: What does it say on your arm? 141 00:07:05,066 --> 00:07:07,233 DESTINY TURTURIELLO, 17 Years Old: "Only the strong survive," in Chinese. 142 00:07:07,233 --> 00:07:12,233 PAUL SOLMAN: But back in Yonkers, 17-year-old Destiny Turturiello, a family friend of Kristen 143 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,800 Hopper's from the old neighborhood, can't get out. 144 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,800 A minor with no legal guardian, she's even having trouble getting back into school, having 145 00:07:22,733 --> 00:07:25,766 dropped out when kids bullied her for doing her homework during lunch. 146 00:07:25,766 --> 00:07:27,866 She used to give as good as she got. 147 00:07:27,866 --> 00:07:29,300 DESTINY TURTURIELLO: If you look at me, just like how you're looking at me now... 148 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:30,800 PAUL SOLMAN: Yes? 149 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:31,733 DESTINY TURTURIELLO: ... I might just fight you two years ago. 150 00:07:31,733 --> 00:07:32,866 PAUL SOLMAN: You would fight me? 151 00:07:32,866 --> 00:07:34,500 What do you mean? 152 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:35,700 DESTINY TURTURIELLO: I would just be like, what are you staring at? 153 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:36,700 Is there a problem? 154 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:39,200 And then I would have hit you. 155 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,466 And then I would have went about my day, because I feel like I just took my anger out on you. 156 00:07:42,466 --> 00:07:47,133 PAUL SOLMAN: She's learned to manage her anger, but she's still in Yonkers, which has deep 157 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:51,200 pockets of poverty not far from upscale, affluent areas. 158 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,900 DESTINY TURTURIELLO: What am I doing with my life? 159 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:54,766 I'm not doing anything productive. 160 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:57,033 What am I going to be later on in life? 161 00:07:57,033 --> 00:07:58,633 Am I going to be something? 162 00:07:58,633 --> 00:08:02,333 If I could change on living in Yonkers, I would do it 100 percent. 163 00:08:02,333 --> 00:08:07,300 PAUL SOLMAN: But Turturiello, like millions of other Americans, can't afford to move to 164 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:09,233 a better community. 165 00:08:09,233 --> 00:08:12,466 Kristen Hopper only managed with help from benefactors. 166 00:08:12,466 --> 00:08:14,100 But finances weren't the only factor. 167 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:17,266 KRISTEN HOPPER: It was hard for me to disconnect from friends. 168 00:08:17,266 --> 00:08:22,166 Like, what am I going to do if I have nobody you know? 169 00:08:22,166 --> 00:08:24,400 And when I actually did it, many people were shocked. 170 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,166 PAUL SOLMAN: Shocked, she says, and resentful. 171 00:08:27,166 --> 00:08:32,166 Is the resentment similar to the resentment that so many Americans feel towards people 172 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,766 who are just doing much better that they're doing in this economy? 173 00:08:38,766 --> 00:08:41,033 KRISTEN HOPPER: I have felt that resentment hard. 174 00:08:41,033 --> 00:08:42,966 PAUL SOLMAN: The status distinction. 175 00:08:42,966 --> 00:08:44,600 KRISTEN HOPPER: Yes. 176 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,600 I did. 177 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,633 I did. 178 00:08:47,633 --> 00:08:51,600 PAUL SOLMAN: Location, location, location, an old saw in real estate, but one with poignant 179 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,033 new pertinence in today's increasingly immobile economy. 180 00:08:56,033 --> 00:09:01,033 For the "PBS NewsHour," this is economics correspondent Paul Solman, reporting from 181 00:09:01,766 --> 00:09:02,000 Westchester, New York.