WEBVTT 00:04.350 --> 00:06.100 JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff. 00:06.100 --> 00:11.100 On the "NewsHour" tonight: COVID on the rise. Infections spike, and more schools and businesses 00:12.549 --> 00:17.549 close, as hospitals brace for a wave of patients from the Omicron variant. 00:18.010 --> 00:23.010 Then: high stakes. Democratic Senator Joe Manchin deals a blow to the White House, saying 00:24.240 --> 00:29.240 no to President Biden's main social priorities bill. What's next for the president's agenda? 00:31.290 --> 00:36.290 And reflecting on a legacy. Dr. Francis Collins discusses his long career, as he leaves the 00:37.769 --> 00:42.769 top job at the National Institutes of Health, especially combating COVID and mapping the 00:44.109 --> 00:45.109 human genome. 00:45.109 --> 00:47.780 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, Director, National Institutes of Health: Now, it's written in a language 00:47.780 --> 00:52.780 we're still trying to figure out how to read accurately. So, the work on the human genome 00:52.829 --> 00:54.577 will be going on for a long time. 00:54.577 --> 00:58.247 JUDY WOODRUFF: All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour." 00:58.247 --> 01:03.247 (BREAK) 03:03.679 --> 03:08.679 JUDY WOODRUFF: Crises in public health and public policy dominate the news tonight. The 03:08.760 --> 03:13.760 furious spread of COVID-19's Omicron variant has hospitals straining to keep up, and the 03:15.120 --> 03:20.120 near-collapse of the Build Back Better package has the White House and Democrats straining 03:20.450 --> 03:21.990 to find a new solution. 03:21.990 --> 03:26.990 First, the Omicron explosion. The CDC now says it has already become the most common 03:28.610 --> 03:33.170 variant in the U.S., accounting for three quarters of new cases. 03:33.170 --> 03:35.600 We begin with this report from Stephanie Sy. 03:35.600 --> 03:40.600 STEPHANIE SY: As airports fill up with holiday travelers, the U.S., along with the rest of 03:40.620 --> 03:45.620 the world, finds itself in a precarious position. The Omicron variant has made its way into 03:46.240 --> 03:51.240 at least 89 countries and in the U.S. more than 40 states. 03:51.320 --> 03:56.070 Over the weekend, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci warned of what scientists 03:56.070 --> 03:59.320 are learning about Omicron and its ability to spread. 03:59.320 --> 04:00.420 DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, Chief Medical Adviser to President Biden: Well, the one thing that's 04:00.420 --> 04:05.420 very clear, and there's no doubt about this, is its extraordinary capability of spreading, 04:05.750 --> 04:10.750 its transmissibility capability. It is just raging through the world, really. 04:11.830 --> 04:16.830 STEPHANIE SY: Americans are pressing forward with plans to gather for the holidays, bottling 04:17.479 --> 04:21.910 up testing centers. Lines in New York City have wrapped around streets. 04:21.910 --> 04:24.470 KATIE ROPER, New York Resident: I have been here about an hour-and-a-half. And it's been 04:24.470 --> 04:29.470 very long. Everyone's just been waiting and waiting. And it's been really scary with the 04:30.210 --> 04:31.800 new variant, very, very scary. 04:31.800 --> 04:36.800 STEPHANIE SY: Experts say vaccination remains the first line of defense against severe cases 04:37.120 --> 04:39.470 of COVID, including the new variant. 04:39.470 --> 04:44.470 And, today, Moderna shared preliminary data which shows the booster dose of its vaccine 04:45.970 --> 04:50.970 substantially increased antibody levels, meaning protection against Omicron. 04:51.960 --> 04:56.130 Former President Trump revealed last night what he's done to protect himself from COVID. 04:56.130 --> 04:58.620 BILL O'REILLY, Former Host, "The O'Reilly Factor": Both the president and I are vaxxed. 04:58.620 --> 04:59.860 And did you get the booster? 04:59.860 --> 05:02.710 DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: Yes. 05:02.710 --> 05:03.710 BILL O'REILLY: I got it too. 05:03.710 --> 05:06.920 STEPHANIE SY: Speaking directly to vaccine doubters, the former president reminded his 05:06.920 --> 05:11.010 followers that the shots were approved under his administration. 05:11.010 --> 05:15.150 DONALD TRUMP: We got a vaccine done in less than nine months. It was supposed to take 05:15.150 --> 05:16.630 from five to 12 years. 05:16.630 --> 05:20.350 STEPHANIE SY: He does not support vaccine mandates. 05:20.350 --> 05:25.350 But more cities are requiring proof of vaccination before entering indoor public spaces. Boston 05:26.690 --> 05:31.690 is the latest to make this move to contain Omicron. And, in D.C., the mayor reinstated 05:32.400 --> 05:36.230 an indoor mask mandate starting tomorrow. 05:36.230 --> 05:41.230 Community spread among the vaccinated in the nation's capital now includes Senators Elizabeth 05:41.770 --> 05:46.770 Warren and Cory Booker. They both tested positive over the weekend. Maryland's Governor Larry 05:48.120 --> 05:53.120 Hogan said he tested positive today. All three had been vaccinated and received a booster 05:54.930 --> 05:56.240 shot. 05:56.240 --> 06:01.240 Overseas, several countries have imposed new restrictions, in line with the WHO's guidance 06:02.580 --> 06:03.580 to government leaders. 06:03.580 --> 06:08.580 TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, WHO Director General: An event canceled is better than a life canceled. 06:09.930 --> 06:14.930 It's better to cancel now and celebrate later than to celebrate now and grieve later. None 06:18.490 --> 06:21.470 of us want to be here again in 12 months time. 06:21.470 --> 06:26.460 STEPHANIE SY: In the U.K., health officials are still weighing imposing stricter lockdowns. 06:26.460 --> 06:30.440 SAJID JAVID, British Health Minister: I didn't come into the government to restrict freedoms 06:30.440 --> 06:35.440 of people, but I think people understand why we are -- presented that action to Parliament. 06:37.940 --> 06:39.540 And we keep the situation under review. 06:39.540 --> 06:44.540 STEPHANIE SY: The most dramatic response in Europe so far is in the Netherlands. All nonessential 06:45.720 --> 06:48.570 stores, bars and restaurants are closed through mid-January. 06:48.570 --> 06:52.910 MARK RUTTE, Prime Minister of the Netherlands (through translator): We must act now to prevent 06:52.910 --> 06:54.680 as much of the worst as possible. 06:54.680 --> 06:59.680 STEPHANIE SY: Weekend protests and clashes in Europe over new restrictions show the competing 07:00.400 --> 07:03.540 pressures politicians face. 07:03.540 --> 07:08.540 It's a challenge President Biden will publicly address in a speech to Americans tomorrow, 07:08.990 --> 07:13.990 outlining his administration's response to the latest COVID crisis. 07:14.470 --> 07:19.120 There are so many questions people have about Omicron and what we're learning. 07:19.120 --> 07:24.120 So, joining me now is Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and an epidemiologist 07:26.100 --> 07:31.100 at New York University's Grossman School of Medicine. Dr. Gounder also cares for patients 07:31.520 --> 07:33.710 at Bellevue Hospital Center. 07:33.710 --> 07:36.260 Dr. Gounder, as always, thank you for joining the "NewsHour." 07:36.260 --> 07:41.260 And let us start there with what you're seeing on the front lines. With cases skyrocketing 07:43.060 --> 07:48.060 there in New York City, what are you seeing as far as burdens on hospitals and the health 07:48.392 --> 07:49.392 care system? 07:49.392 --> 07:51.780 DR. CELINE GOUNDER, Infectious Disease and Public Health Specialist: We are seeing cases 07:51.780 --> 07:56.780 of COVID spiking in New York City. We're seeing long lines around the block, around blocks, 07:57.810 --> 08:02.810 of people lining up to get PCR tests. Emergency rooms are full. 08:03.630 --> 08:08.630 But I think the other really important message here is that, in terms of our hospitalization 08:08.830 --> 08:13.830 rates, we have not seen those spike. And to give you a little bit of context, at the height 08:14.390 --> 08:19.390 of the pandemic back in the spring of 2020 at Bellevue Hospital, where I work, we had 08:19.560 --> 08:24.350 over 600 patients with COVID at the peak at any one time. 08:24.350 --> 08:29.350 Today at Bellevue Hospital, we have 30 patients with COVID in the hospital. So that's a dramatic 08:30.040 --> 08:34.941 difference. And that's really because so many New Yorkers have gotten vaccinated. It's one 08:34.941 --> 08:39.499 of the most vaccinated places in the country. Over 70 percent of people in New York City 08:39.499 --> 08:41.800 have gotten fully vaccinated. 08:41.800 --> 08:46.800 And so, while we're seeing a lot of cases, those cases are not translating into hospitalizations 08:47.189 --> 08:49.920 and deaths, as they are in other parts of the country. 08:49.920 --> 08:54.920 STEPHANIE SY: Is part of that because preliminary data shows that Omicron may not be as severe 08:58.579 --> 09:00.430 as the Delta and other variants? 09:00.430 --> 09:05.430 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: It's not clear that that's really what's driving this. 09:05.470 --> 09:10.470 Data out of the U.K. suggests that Omicron may be just as virulent as prior variants. 09:11.009 --> 09:16.009 And, remember, many of the COVID cases we're seeing are still related to Delta. And yet 09:17.100 --> 09:22.100 we're not seeing these spikes in hospitalizations, overwhelmed hospitals in terms of hospitalizations, 09:25.149 --> 09:29.430 people requiring ventilation, needing to be in the ICU. 09:29.430 --> 09:34.009 We're not seeing that here, and that's really because people are, by and large, vaccinated. 09:34.009 --> 09:39.009 STEPHANIE SY: And so, again, the message is, get vaccinated, get boosted, and that is what 09:41.730 --> 09:42.890 will keep you safe. 09:42.890 --> 09:46.839 Now, when it comes to testing, I just got back from New York City myself, and I was 09:46.839 --> 09:51.839 hearing about people waiting for hours in line for testing. Rapid tests are no longer 09:52.809 --> 09:57.110 coming back rapidly because of the spike in demand. 09:57.110 --> 10:02.110 Why is it so hard at this juncture to efficiently and effectively test mass numbers of people? 10:04.639 --> 10:09.639 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: One of the challenges, Stephanie, has been waxing and waning demand 10:09.720 --> 10:12.350 for testing over the course of the pandemic. 10:12.350 --> 10:17.350 Unfortunately, much of this demand has spiked around maybe a surge in cases or around the 10:17.769 --> 10:22.769 holidays, but has not been incorporated as a routine behavior for people that they get 10:23.730 --> 10:28.730 tested, say, once a week or just before they hang out with friends at a bar on the weekend. 10:29.389 --> 10:34.389 And that's really what it would take to have a reliable demand that manufacturers can plan 10:34.879 --> 10:39.879 for, that they can set up supply chains for. And one of the other challenges is really 10:40.550 --> 10:45.430 just having enough of the raw materials to make tests. So those are some of the bottlenecks 10:45.430 --> 10:46.459 we're dealing with. 10:46.459 --> 10:51.369 STEPHANIE SY: What do you think the Biden administration should be doing to address 10:51.369 --> 10:56.369 that a bottleneck? How crucial is testing, given what we know about Omicron's transmissibility? 10:57.420 --> 11:02.420 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: Testing is really important, because, while the vaccines are highly effective, 11:02.610 --> 11:07.610 they're keeping people out of the hospital, they're preventing death, people are having 11:07.779 --> 11:11.740 infections, despite being fully vaccinated and even boosted. 11:11.740 --> 11:16.740 And so, in order to prevent further transmission, we really do need to layer other interventions. 11:17.290 --> 11:22.290 And that includes testing, testing so that you know if you are infectious, contagious 11:22.519 --> 11:27.519 to others and need to stay home. And so some of the things the Biden administration could 11:27.600 --> 11:32.600 be doing on that front is really trying to help ease some of these supply chain raw materials 11:34.759 --> 11:36.279 issues. 11:36.279 --> 11:41.279 That might include invoking the Defense Production Act, as they did to make sure we had enough 11:41.519 --> 11:46.050 raw materials for manufacturing of the vaccines. Some of the other things they could do is 11:46.050 --> 11:51.050 also make use of other types of testing technologies in certain settings, so, for example, pooled 11:52.569 --> 11:57.569 saliva PCR testing in workplaces and schools, so that you free up those individual rapid 11:58.869 --> 12:00.499 tests for use in other places. 12:00.499 --> 12:04.670 STEPHANIE SY: Given what we know right now about the Omicron variant, how should people 12:04.670 --> 12:06.970 alter their behavior heading into the holidays? 12:06.970 --> 12:11.730 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: In addition to getting fully vaccinated and boosted, think about 12:11.730 --> 12:16.730 this in terms of winter layers, wear a mask, socialize outdoors as much as is possible. 12:18.110 --> 12:23.110 Optimize your indoor ventilation and air filtration by opening doors and windows and placing HEPA 12:24.110 --> 12:26.740 air filtration units around the home. 12:26.740 --> 12:31.740 And use rapid testing to identify who might be contagious and who should not be joining 12:32.550 --> 12:34.889 in the family and friends in celebrating that day. 12:34.889 --> 12:39.889 STEPHANIE SY: And do we know how reliable those at-home rapid tests are at detecting 12:40.699 --> 12:42.259 Omicron? Does that concern you at all? 12:42.259 --> 12:46.920 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: There have been reports of people with symptoms testing positive on 12:46.920 --> 12:51.920 a PCR And testing negative on a rapid antigen test, particularly in the first few days of 12:52.740 --> 12:54.129 being symptomatic. 12:54.129 --> 12:59.129 The FDA is looking into this. Emory University has been assisting with testing in their lab, 13:00.380 --> 13:02.790 and we hope to have some answers on that soon. 13:02.790 --> 13:05.009 STEPHANIE SY: It's what we have for now. 13:05.009 --> 13:10.009 Dr. Celine Gounder with NYU's Grossman School of Medicine, thank you so much, and happy 13:10.339 --> 13:11.990 holidays. 13:11.990 --> 13:16.990 DR. CELINE GOUNDER: Happy holidays. 13:20.199 --> 13:25.199 JUDY WOODRUFF: And now to our other lead story tonight, the political fallout from the near-collapse 13:28.600 --> 13:33.600 of negotiations over the Build Back Better legislative package, a keystone of President 13:34.489 --> 13:36.800 Biden's domestic agenda. 13:36.800 --> 13:41.800 Republicans have opposed the legislation. And Democrats are looking at the road ahead, 13:42.889 --> 13:47.489 now that one of their own seems to be a firm no on the current package. 13:47.489 --> 13:49.369 Lisa Desjardins begins our coverage. 13:49.369 --> 13:53.839 SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): If I can't go home and explain it to the people of West Virginia, 13:53.839 --> 13:54.839 I can't vote for it. 13:54.839 --> 13:59.579 LISA DESJARDINS: The words dropped like boulders. On "FOX News Sunday," Senator Joe Manchin 13:59.579 --> 14:04.579 suddenly threw President Biden's Build Back Better agenda into new turmoil. 14:04.589 --> 14:09.089 The West Virginia Democrat said the White House and others weren't doing enough to reduce 14:09.089 --> 14:12.660 or, in his mind, be honest about the ultimate cost of the bill. 14:12.660 --> 14:16.260 SEN. JOE MANCHIN: We should be up front and pick our priorities. That's the difference. 14:16.260 --> 14:20.589 and what we need to do is get our financial house in order, but be able to pay for what 14:20.589 --> 14:22.230 we do and do what we pay for. 14:22.230 --> 14:26.980 LISA DESJARDINS: During a radio interview today, Manchin also blamed White House staffers 14:26.980 --> 14:28.410 for the negotiations' collapse. 14:28.410 --> 14:32.759 SEN. JOE MANCHIN: But you know me, always willing to work and listen and try. I just 14:32.759 --> 14:37.559 got to the wit's end. And they know the real reason what happened. They won't tell you. 14:37.559 --> 14:38.639 And I'm not going to because I... 14:38.639 --> 14:39.639 (CROSSTALK) 14:39.639 --> 14:40.639 HOPPY KERCHEVAL, Radio Talk Show Host: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 14:40.639 --> 14:41.639 SEN. JOE MANCHIN: No. 14:41.639 --> 14:44.250 HOPPY KERCHEVAL: Wait. Wait. You said you there is -- they know the real reason, they're 14:44.250 --> 14:45.790 not going to tell us, you're not going to tell us. 14:45.790 --> 14:46.790 What do you mean? What's the real -- so there's... 14:46.790 --> 14:50.759 SEN. JOE MANCHIN: Well, the bottom line is, there was -- they're, basically -- and his 14:50.759 --> 14:51.860 staff. It's staff-driven. 14:51.860 --> 14:55.160 I understand staff. It's not the president. It's the staff. And they drove some things 14:55.160 --> 14:58.490 and they put some things out that were absolutely inexcusable. 14:58.490 --> 15:00.279 And they know what it is. And that's it. 15:00.279 --> 15:05.279 LISA DESJARDINS: This as the White House swung with its own sharp charges about Manchin. 15:05.439 --> 15:09.910 In a statement yesterday, White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki called Manchin's comments a sudden 15:09.910 --> 15:14.910 and inexplicable reversal in his position and a breach of commitments to the president 15:15.029 --> 15:16.839 and the senator's colleagues. 15:16.839 --> 15:17.839 This was Psaki today: 15:17.839 --> 15:21.699 JEN PSAKI, White House Press Secretary: I can't speak for Senator Manchin on what has 15:21.699 --> 15:26.670 upset him. I will let him speak to that himself with more specifics if he chooses to. And 15:26.670 --> 15:28.989 he may or may not choose to. And that's his prerogative. 15:28.989 --> 15:33.989 LISA DESJARDINS: The latest Build Back Better plan was on a historic scale, affecting millions:, 15:34.489 --> 15:39.350 providing universal pre-K, lowering child care costs, expanding health care, including 15:39.350 --> 15:44.329 a dramatic cut in the price of insulin, and combating climate change, with large-scale 15:44.329 --> 15:48.209 tax incentives and new regulations on methane gas. 15:48.209 --> 15:52.829 With all of that on the ropes, much Democratic reaction has been furious. 15:52.829 --> 15:55.689 New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez took to MSNBC. 15:55.689 --> 16:00.019 REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): The idea that Joe Manchin says he can't explain 16:00.019 --> 16:03.569 this back home to his people is a farce. 16:03.569 --> 16:07.459 LISA DESJARDINS: Other statements flurried. Independent Senator Bernie Sanders wrote that 16:07.459 --> 16:12.309 Manchin should explain to West Virginians how his move might harm them. 16:12.309 --> 16:17.309 Moderate Virginia Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger called Manchin's actions unacceptable. Advocacy 16:18.100 --> 16:22.089 groups, like the National Domestic Workers Alliance, lamented. They called Manchin's 16:22.089 --> 16:24.209 decision a breach of commitment. 16:24.209 --> 16:29.209 But, in San Francisco today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was more restrained and focused, 16:29.739 --> 16:31.920 insisting Manchin will sign onto something. 16:31.920 --> 16:36.680 REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I have confidence that Senator Manchin cares about our country, 16:36.680 --> 16:41.680 and that, at some point very soon, we can take up the legislation. I'm not deterred 16:42.120 --> 16:43.120 at all. 16:43.120 --> 16:47.269 LISA DESJARDINS: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said he will put a revised bill to a vote 16:47.269 --> 16:52.269 in the Senate early in the new year. He promised senators that the chamber will keep voting 16:52.420 --> 16:55.029 on it until we get something done. 16:55.029 --> 16:59.910 JUDY WOODRUFF: And Lisa joins me now, along with our White House correspondent, Yamiche 16:59.910 --> 17:00.910 Alcindor. 17:00.910 --> 17:05.910 And a note: Because of fast-changing information about COVID and the Omicron variant, we are 17:06.220 --> 17:09.519 asking guests and our own correspondents to join us remotely. 17:09.519 --> 17:11.679 So, hello to both of you. 17:11.679 --> 17:13.720 And, Lisa, I'm going to start with you. 17:13.720 --> 17:17.370 Two big questions. How did this happen and what does it mean? 17:17.370 --> 17:22.309 LISA DESJARDINS: Well, there was a breakdown in talks, clearly, between the White House 17:22.309 --> 17:24.459 and Senator Manchin over the last couple of weeks. 17:24.459 --> 17:29.380 I believe some of that has to deal -- do with some personalities involved, as Senator Manchin 17:29.380 --> 17:34.380 eluded to. But there are bigger issues here. From Senator Manchin and those close to him, 17:34.679 --> 17:39.520 they stress that this was just an issue of the package being too large and fiscally irresponsible, 17:39.520 --> 17:41.100 in their view. 17:41.100 --> 17:45.450 We can report -- Yamiche and I have both confirmed to sources -- that sometime in the past couple 17:45.450 --> 17:50.450 of weeks, Senator Manchin said he was open and even could agree to a deal that was smaller 17:51.539 --> 17:56.539 that did not contain the child tax credit in it, but did contain things like universal 17:56.880 --> 18:01.880 pre-K, expansion of the Affordable Care Act, and some money to combat climate change. 18:02.539 --> 18:07.539 But, clearly, that was not enough for Democrats at that time. And here's where we are. What 18:08.620 --> 18:13.560 does it mean? We will have to see what it ultimately means. But, at this moment, it 18:13.560 --> 18:18.429 is a huge blow to Democrats' hopes, and it is something that many millions of Americans 18:18.429 --> 18:19.429 could be affected by. 18:19.429 --> 18:23.059 I want to talk about those stakeholders really quickly. For example, let's talk about that 18:23.059 --> 18:28.059 child tax credit, which is expiring right now. The expanded version of it is expiring. 18:28.350 --> 18:33.180 That affects some 61 million children in this country. Then we talk about health care costs 18:33.180 --> 18:38.180 and drug prices in particular. In this bill was that idea of keeping insulin costs down 18:38.190 --> 18:43.190 to $35 per month. That's about eight million Americans who use insulin on a regular basis. 18:44.200 --> 18:49.200 Then, of course, you talk about climate. That is a global issue. That is something that 18:49.549 --> 18:54.010 everyone either is or will deal with in the near future, if nothing changes. 18:54.010 --> 18:57.519 Now, then you think about what's going on in West Virginia today. There are of course, 18:57.519 --> 19:02.400 many stakeholders there. Democrats say, why isn't Joe Manchin thinking of his constituents, 19:02.400 --> 19:07.400 the 25,000 children, for example, that would get pre-K or early education in this deal? 19:08.309 --> 19:12.190 Talking to them, there is anger among some progressives and Democrats in West Virginia 19:12.190 --> 19:16.370 at Joe Manchin, some of his closest allies, but there's others who say, listen, we just 19:16.370 --> 19:20.549 don't trust government. We think this deal was too big. And whatever the details were 19:20.549 --> 19:24.710 about how it affects my family, I just -- we just think it was too big, and that's where 19:24.710 --> 19:25.970 Joe Manchin ended up. 19:25.970 --> 19:29.510 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Yamiche, what is the White House view of all this? 19:29.510 --> 19:34.510 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, Judy, the White House and President Biden have felt really blindsided 19:35.230 --> 19:38.720 by Senator Joe Manchin coming out and saying that he was not going to support the Build 19:38.720 --> 19:40.120 Back Better Act. 19:40.120 --> 19:44.430 The president personally signed off on a statement that was released by the White House press 19:44.430 --> 19:48.590 secretary. He does that in for a lot of statements. But this one was really a rare statement because 19:48.590 --> 19:51.960 it was lengthy and it was biting, and it really did go after Senator Manchin. 19:51.960 --> 19:55.480 He said that he was someone who was going to have to explain to his constituents why 19:55.480 --> 19:57.850 they did not get some of the benefits that they badly need. 19:57.850 --> 20:01.440 Also, I want to put up this statement. They essentially said that Senator Manchin promised 20:01.440 --> 20:05.179 to continue conversations in the days ahead. And then they said -- quote -- "If his comments 20:05.179 --> 20:10.000 on FOX and written statement indicate an effort - - an effort to end that effort," I should 20:10.000 --> 20:11.000 say. 20:11.000 --> 20:15.309 "They represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position and a breach of his 20:15.309 --> 20:19.110 commitment to the president and the senators' colleagues in the House and Senate." 20:19.110 --> 20:22.110 We just don't see language like that coming from the White House, because they have been 20:22.110 --> 20:26.350 so careful in trying to negotiate with Senator Manchin. So that tells you sort of the level 20:26.350 --> 20:28.240 of anger that the White House was feeling yesterday. 20:28.240 --> 20:32.009 Now, the White House press secretary did come out today. She was a little bit more subdued. 20:32.009 --> 20:35.850 She said multiple times that Senator Manchin and the president are -- quote -- "longtime 20:35.850 --> 20:39.860 friends" and that they're going to continue to have shared values and going to continue 20:39.860 --> 20:40.860 to talk. 20:40.860 --> 20:43.410 The other thing to note, though, is that this is really coming at a time when the White 20:43.410 --> 20:47.640 House was already facing pressure about who has the power really in Washington. I want 20:47.640 --> 20:52.490 to play for folks this exchange between the vice president, Kamala Harris, and a host 20:52.490 --> 20:57.350 from Comedy Central who specifically asked her who was president, President Joe Biden 20:57.350 --> 20:58.350 or Senator Manchin? 20:58.350 --> 21:01.353 CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, Radio Talk Show Host: So, who's the real president of this country? 21:01.353 --> 21:04.140 Is it Joe Manchin or Joe Biden, Madam Vice President? 21:04.140 --> 21:05.419 KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States: Come on, Charlamagne. Come on. 21:05.419 --> 21:07.250 CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I really -- I can't tell sometimes. 21:07.250 --> 21:12.210 KAMALA HARRIS: No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. It's Joe Biden. 21:12.210 --> 21:17.200 And don't start talking like a Republican about asking whether or not he's president. 21:17.200 --> 21:18.620 CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Do you think Joe Manchin is a problem? 21:18.620 --> 21:21.779 KAMALA HARRIS: And it's Joe Biden. And it's Joe Biden. And it's Joe Biden. And I'm vice 21:21.779 --> 21:24.159 president. And my name is Kamala Harris. 21:24.159 --> 21:28.960 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: So, you see there really the vice president getting very, very testy 21:28.960 --> 21:31.340 and very defensive of President Biden. 21:31.340 --> 21:35.170 But it really gets to the bottom line, which is that only a couple of, I would say months 21:35.170 --> 21:39.850 ago, President Biden said during a CNN town hall, when you're a president, but you have 21:39.850 --> 21:42.309 a 50/50 Senate, every senator is president. 21:42.309 --> 21:45.530 So it really just sums up that the president is in a tough spot here. 21:45.530 --> 21:49.240 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, given all this, Lisa, for Democrats, what now? 21:49.240 --> 21:54.240 LISA DESJARDINS: Well, there's a lot of hopefulness today that there wasn't there yesterday. 21:56.720 --> 22:00.880 Let me go through really quickly what's going to happen now. As we recorded, Senator Schumer 22:00.880 --> 22:05.389 has a plan. He's going to build -- bring Build Back Better before the full Senate. It is 22:05.389 --> 22:09.559 expected to fail as it stands right now. But he plans to do that very early next year. 22:09.559 --> 22:14.380 He says he will keep trying, keep bringing up votes until there is something that can 22:14.380 --> 22:19.380 pass the United States Senate. Now, here's the issue for Democrats, Judy, my reporting, 22:20.030 --> 22:23.211 talking to many Democrats across the spectrum. Here's the issue. Here's what they have to 22:23.211 --> 22:27.960 think about now in crafting this new bill, one, the size of the new bill, two, how to 22:27.960 --> 22:32.429 pay for it, which is another issue that affects another senator, Kyrsten Sinema. 22:32.429 --> 22:37.020 And then, of course, there are varying priorities here. Some of them prioritize climate, some 22:37.020 --> 22:40.980 the child tax credit. Other Democrats, it's early education. Some Democrats, it's health 22:40.980 --> 22:44.750 care, still more, immigration. So they have to make those decisions. 22:44.750 --> 22:49.049 One congressman, Democrat Mark DeSaulnier of California, told me today, "This is bigger 22:49.049 --> 22:50.049 than all of us." 22:50.049 --> 22:52.640 So they're trying to take a deep breath right now. 22:52.640 --> 22:54.159 JUDY WOODRUFF: And finally to Yamiche. 22:54.159 --> 22:59.159 I did see reporting the president and Joe Manchin did have a phone call yesterday afternoon. 22:59.210 --> 23:03.830 But what does this mean for the president's agenda going forward for 2022? 23:03.830 --> 23:08.830 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, Judy, the deep side that I'm sure folks heard when Lisa was asked 23:09.030 --> 23:14.030 what's next is the same deep sigh that the White House is doing, because they're -- frankly, 23:14.159 --> 23:16.080 they're really challenged about how to move forward. 23:16.080 --> 23:20.751 President Biden, the White House press secretary said today multiple times, he's going to try 23:20.751 --> 23:24.350 his hardest to continue doing the Build Back Better negotiations. They're saying over and 23:24.350 --> 23:28.309 over again that this is not a dead bill. But it's very, very hard to see how this comes 23:28.309 --> 23:29.309 through. 23:29.309 --> 23:31.990 There's also, of course, the fact that this is coming at a tough time for the president, 23:31.990 --> 23:35.659 because we're experiencing COVID spikes, and people really are looking for relief. So, 23:35.659 --> 23:39.669 when you look at the child tax credit, when you look at the idea of universal pre-K, all 23:39.669 --> 23:43.529 of these things are what Americans in some ways will really need as this COVID spike 23:43.529 --> 23:44.529 happens. 23:44.529 --> 23:48.010 And then, of course, there's all the things that are unresolved that Democrats, especially 23:48.010 --> 23:51.519 African American Democrats, who make up the base of the Democratic Party -- they want 23:51.519 --> 23:54.480 to see voting rights reform. They want to see policing reform. None of that has come 23:54.480 --> 23:56.360 through. So the president's absolutely in a tough spot. 23:56.360 --> 23:58.960 JUDY WOODRUFF: Very, very full plate. 23:58.960 --> 24:03.860 Yamiche Alcindor, Lisa Desjardins, we thank you both. 24:03.860 --> 24:08.860 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Thank you. 24:11.340 --> 24:16.340 JUDY WOODRUFF: In the day's other news: A Minneapolis jury began deliberating manslaughter 24:19.000 --> 24:21.240 charges against Kim Potter. 24:21.240 --> 24:26.240 The former suburban Minneapolis police officer shot and killed Daunte Wright during a traffic 24:26.690 --> 24:31.690 stop last April. Prosecutors today played down Potter's claim that she meant to grab 24:32.269 --> 24:37.269 her Taser, not her gun. The defense said that Wright was to blame for trying to drive off. 24:38.110 --> 24:39.520 They summed up in closing arguments. 24:39.520 --> 24:42.090 ERIN ELDRIDGE, Assistant Minnesota Assistant Attorney General: She didn't have to intend 24:42.090 --> 24:45.850 to harm anyone. She didn't have to intend to kill Daunte Wright. 24:45.850 --> 24:50.850 But that's what she did. She consciously took a chance of causing death or grave bodily 24:53.929 --> 24:58.929 harm by pulling a weapon and firing it without giving it a second thought. 25:01.190 --> 25:06.190 EARL GRAY, Attorney For Kim Potter: Her acts were all legal. Everything she did was legal. 25:09.713 --> 25:10.713 And then he tries to break away. 25:10.713 --> 25:12.970 And, consciously, she thought she was doing the right thing. Daunte Wright caused his 25:12.970 --> 25:17.970 own death, unfortunately, but that -- those are the cold, hard facts, the evidence. 25:19.680 --> 25:24.030 JUDY WOODRUFF: The killing of Daunte Wright sparked protests and added to a national outcry 25:24.030 --> 25:25.950 over racial justice. 25:25.950 --> 25:30.950 The case of Ghislaine Maxwell has also gone to a jury tonight in New York. She's accused 25:31.289 --> 25:36.289 of recruiting teenage girls for sexual abuse by the late financier Jeffrey Epstein. 25:37.220 --> 25:42.220 Today, federal prosecutors closed by branding Maxwell a dangerous predator. The defense 25:43.039 --> 25:44.980 argued that she has been made a scapegoat. 25:44.980 --> 25:48.150 We will take a closer look later in the program. 25:48.150 --> 25:53.150 The Pentagon today has clarified its rules on extremism in the military. As before, the 25:53.840 --> 25:58.840 guidance bars troops from actively engaging in extremist activities, but it goes into 25:59.570 --> 26:04.570 more detail. Banned activities range from advocating terrorism to posting extremist 26:05.210 --> 26:10.210 views online. The rules also spell out the process that commanders must use to punish 26:11.330 --> 26:12.330 someone. 26:12.330 --> 26:17.330 Chile has a new president-elect, and he's vowing to remake the country with progressive 26:17.840 --> 26:22.840 policies. Leftist Gabriel Boric won Sunday's run-off against a far-right lawmaker. That 26:24.639 --> 26:29.639 touched off celebrations in the capital, Santiago. Boric vowed to create an inclusive government 26:31.279 --> 26:33.159 to fight poverty and inequality. 26:33.159 --> 26:37.679 GABRIEL BORIC, Chilean President-Elect (through translator): Chileans, I receive this mandate 26:37.679 --> 26:42.679 with humility and a tremendous sense of responsibility. I will be a president who cares for democracy 26:43.970 --> 26:48.970 and does not risk it, listens more than what he speaks, seeks unity, and attends to the 26:49.340 --> 26:50.890 needs of the people daily. 26:50.890 --> 26:54.460 JUDY WOODRUFF: The new president takes over next March. 26:54.460 --> 26:59.460 The U.S., Britain and other countries today condemned Sunday's election in Hong Kong as 26:59.850 --> 27:04.850 an erosion of democracy. Pro-Beijing candidates swept legislative races after others were 27:05.769 --> 27:10.769 kept off the ballot. Voter turnout was just 30 percent, the lowest since Britain handed 27:11.419 --> 27:15.320 the city back to China in 1997. 27:15.320 --> 27:20.320 In the Philippines, the death toll has reached at least 375 after the strongest storm there 27:21.490 --> 27:26.490 this year. Typhoon Rai blasted the Southern Philippines before blowing into the South 27:27.169 --> 27:32.169 China Sea on Friday. Winds of 120 miles an hour, ripped off roofs and knocked out power 27:34.370 --> 27:39.370 across several provinces. Some survivors were left without food or water. 27:40.279 --> 27:44.539 Back in this country, the Biden administration is moving to fight climate change with a big 27:44.539 --> 27:49.539 jump in mileage standards for cars and trucks. A final rule issued today sets an industry-wide 27:51.149 --> 27:56.149 target of 40 miles a gallon by 2026. That reverses a Trump era rollback of an earlier 27:58.409 --> 27:59.499 rule. 27:59.499 --> 28:04.499 The U.S. House investigation into the January 6 insurrection is expanding. The committee 28:05.240 --> 28:10.240 is seeking an interview with GOP Congressman Scott Perry of Pennsylvania. He is the first 28:11.220 --> 28:16.220 sitting congress member to be publicly sought out for questioning. 28:16.409 --> 28:20.970 Drugmaker Biogen said today it's cutting the price of its new Alzheimer's treatment in 28:20.970 --> 28:25.970 half to around $28,000 a year. Aduhelm is the first drug to slow the progress of the 28:28.870 --> 28:33.870 brain disorder, instead of just managing symptoms. but it has run into slow sales and a backlash 28:35.409 --> 28:37.710 over its high cost. 28:37.710 --> 28:42.710 And on Wall Street, stocks joined a worldwide market slump over worries about the pandemic 28:43.659 --> 28:48.659 and inflation. The Dow Jones industrial average lost 433 points to close at 34932. The Nasdaq 28:52.539 --> 28:57.539 fell 188 points. The S&P 500 slipped 52. 28:58.320 --> 29:03.320 And the White House has a new puppy in residence. He's named Commander. President Biden shared 29:04.510 --> 29:09.309 a photo on his Twitter account today. The dog appears to be a German shepherd and was 29:09.309 --> 29:13.289 a gift to the president from his family. 29:13.289 --> 29:17.570 Still to come on the "NewsHour": Tamara Keith and Amy Walter break down the latest political 29:17.570 --> 29:22.570 news; closing arguments in the trial of Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell; Dr. Francis 29:24.789 --> 29:29.789 Collins discusses his long career as he steps away from leading the National Institutes 29:30.389 --> 29:35.389 of Health; plus much more. 29:46.570 --> 29:51.570 A stalled agenda in Congress and a surge in COVID cases, just two issues the White House 29:56.120 --> 29:59.299 is coping with in these final weeks of the year. 29:59.299 --> 30:04.299 It's a good time to turn to Politics Monday, with Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report 30:04.929 --> 30:09.929 With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR, both of us -- both you joining us from your homes. 30:10.610 --> 30:13.419 So good to see you. I'm sorry. you are not here. 30:13.419 --> 30:15.600 But, Amy, let's start with you. 30:15.600 --> 30:20.600 Build Back Better, the president dealt a blow, as we said tonight, by Senator Joe Manchin's 30:22.700 --> 30:25.179 decision, but how big a blow is it? 30:25.179 --> 30:30.179 AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Well, Judy, as Lisa and Yamiche pointed out, we 30:32.250 --> 30:37.250 don't know really where this goes from here, but it is pretty clear that for Democrats 30:37.860 --> 30:42.860 who had hoped that this year was going to end not just with passing his legislation, 30:43.470 --> 30:48.470 but that they would start 2022 selling it, that, instead of focusing on just all of the 30:51.100 --> 30:56.100 back-and-forth over process, as we have done now, it seems, week after week, talking about 30:56.299 --> 31:01.299 negotiations and how Democrats can agree, it was all about Democratic infighting, not 31:02.009 --> 31:05.519 a lot about what was actually in the legislation. 31:05.519 --> 31:09.940 Democrats I talked to were hoping, all right, 2022 comes around, we're going to spend all 31:09.940 --> 31:12.340 of it talking about the things that we have done. 31:12.340 --> 31:17.340 Instead, it looks as if they're going to start the new year in kind of a similar position. 31:17.799 --> 31:21.990 We're going to be talking about process. We're going to be talking about divisions within 31:21.990 --> 31:26.990 the Democratic Party. That is not helpful for Democrats who are up in 2022, who need 31:27.730 --> 31:29.879 an energized Democratic base. 31:29.879 --> 31:34.879 And it certainly isn't going to help President Biden, who is trying to show that he is able 31:36.629 --> 31:41.629 to give voters something for them to turn out and support Democrats in the midterm elections. 31:45.760 --> 31:50.490 JUDY WOODRUFF: Tam, how do you see this? How serious a setback is it for the president? 31:50.490 --> 31:55.490 TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Well, the White House, as Yamiche reported, is still 31:56.679 --> 31:59.440 sort of pushing ahead, though it's not clear where it goes. 31:59.440 --> 32:03.210 In an interview that's going to air tonight that we just got information about, Vice President 32:03.210 --> 32:08.210 Harris told CBS that they're just not going to give up, they can't give up. 32:08.299 --> 32:13.299 But, as Amy said, it does mean that they're starting 2022 without that victory for '22. 32:15.850 --> 32:20.850 The wild thing to think about is, if they hadn't tried for this big ambitious Build 32:21.630 --> 32:26.630 Back Better bill, and they had just taken the wins they had, if they -- if President 32:26.830 --> 32:31.700 Biden and Congress, Democrats in Congress, had just passed the American Rescue Plan and 32:31.700 --> 32:36.669 the bipartisan infrastructure plan, that would have been a lot to campaign on. 32:36.669 --> 32:41.669 But now, because they haven't been able to get Build Back Better over the finish line, 32:41.779 --> 32:45.279 that's what's getting all of the attention, much to their chagrin. 32:45.279 --> 32:50.279 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amy, is there a way to get any significant part of Build Back Better 32:51.070 --> 32:52.070 done now? 32:52.070 --> 32:57.070 AMY WALTER: Well, it does seem as if there are discussions going on right now about a 32:57.249 --> 33:02.249 bill that would maybe trim out some of the things that were problematic for Manchin or 33:03.690 --> 33:08.690 a bill that was much more focused on the one or two issues he was concerned about. 33:08.789 --> 33:13.789 I have also heard progressive lawmakers suggesting that the president himself just issue executive 33:14.669 --> 33:17.880 orders on some of these issues, so that they can be done immediately. 33:17.880 --> 33:22.880 But Tam is exactly right. I mean, the thing is that the Democrats have a story to tell. 33:24.710 --> 33:29.019 Every party has a story to tell when they have been in power. And the whole goal is 33:29.019 --> 33:34.019 to tell your story over and over again, convince voters that sending them back to Washington 33:35.190 --> 33:38.009 is a good idea because I have been able to do XYZ. 33:38.009 --> 33:43.009 They haven't done any of that. Instead, it's really been all about trying to sell this 33:43.899 --> 33:48.549 piece of legislation. And, quite frankly, I don't think it's particularly helpful for 33:48.549 --> 33:53.230 Senate Democrats, especially those Senate Democrats in marginal states, states that 33:53.230 --> 33:58.230 are purple, to have to go and campaign in 2022 to have to spend the next couple of weeks 34:01.059 --> 34:06.059 here still fighting, but also voting for a bill that's not going to pass. 34:06.950 --> 34:11.950 That is not a really helpful exercise. And, again, it's only going to help -- for Democrats 34:13.610 --> 34:18.610 who were worried about 2022, this gives Republicans some very good talking points to say that 34:19.670 --> 34:24.670 the Senate couldn't pass legislation because even Democrats thought it went too far. 34:25.480 --> 34:29.880 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam, you were citing Vice President Harris saying, we're going to keep 34:29.880 --> 34:30.880 fighting for this. 34:30.880 --> 34:32.830 What does that look like then? 34:32.830 --> 34:37.830 TAMARA KEITH: Conversations continuing. And really what it looks like is, for now, at 34:40.611 --> 34:45.611 least, the administration trying not to openly feud with Joe Manchin. 34:46.280 --> 34:50.830 Over the weekend, Press Secretary Jen Psaki put out got a pretty sharp statement. Since 34:50.830 --> 34:55.830 then, they have really tried to cool the temperature, including Vice President Harris trying to 34:58.200 --> 34:59.490 cool the temperature. 34:59.490 --> 35:03.500 And the other thing is, they have a lot of other things to worry about, primarily the 35:03.500 --> 35:07.910 Omicron variant, which is now the dominant variant in the U.S. and spreading like crazy. 35:07.910 --> 35:09.290 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, exactly. 35:09.290 --> 35:14.290 And this comes -- Amy, I want to show for our audience our new poll we have done with 35:14.550 --> 35:19.550 Marist, the president's approval rating at 41 percent, disapproval 55 percent. This -- now, 35:22.520 --> 35:26.190 this poll was in the field a week ago, but it comes at a time with the Build Back Better 35:26.190 --> 35:31.190 news and, as Tam just said, this terrible news that we're hearing about the fast-spreading 35:33.010 --> 35:34.010 Omicron variant. 35:34.010 --> 35:39.010 It doesn't seem to be as serious, but a lot of people are getting sick. How does the president 35:39.780 --> 35:41.080 work his way through this? 35:41.080 --> 35:46.080 AMY WALTER: Look, I think part of the challenge that the president has had -- through these 35:47.630 --> 35:51.860 last few weeks here, we have talked a lot about it's been all about process, negotiating 35:51.860 --> 35:53.710 within his own party. 35:53.710 --> 35:58.710 At the same time, this is a president who, on his inaugural day, said his goal was to 35:59.130 --> 36:04.130 bring unity to the country, a lot of folks not feeling that the country is very unified 36:04.320 --> 36:09.320 on a whole host of issues, including how to handle COVID and vaccines. 36:09.830 --> 36:14.830 And for his Democratic base, those who had said they really saw in Joe Biden someone 36:16.840 --> 36:21.840 who's going to be able to push over the finish line many of the ideals that he campaigned 36:22.670 --> 36:27.160 on in 2020, those haven't been accomplished. 36:27.160 --> 36:32.160 So put that on top of rising COVID rates, which, again, the president said on the campaign 36:33.070 --> 36:37.280 trail, in his first days in office said, is my number one priority, the fact that those 36:37.280 --> 36:42.280 have -- continue to plague the country. COVID specifically, is a real, real challenge. 36:46.180 --> 36:50.730 And voters, of course, they take it out on the person who's in charge. 36:50.730 --> 36:55.730 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Tam, if you're in the White House right now, thinking about how you get 36:55.930 --> 36:58.700 through this and into the new year, what are you thinking? 36:58.700 --> 36:59.700 (LAUGHTER) 36:59.700 --> 37:03.530 TAMARA KEITH: Well, luckily, I don't work at the White House. 37:03.530 --> 37:08.530 But they are trying to frame the way the American public thinks about this wave that is going 37:10.190 --> 37:15.180 to hit with Omicron. You heard Press Secretary Jen Psaki talk about it today. You're going 37:15.180 --> 37:20.180 to hear President Biden talk about it tomorrow. The goal is to prevent severe illness and 37:21.500 --> 37:22.500 death. 37:22.500 --> 37:27.450 At the beginning of the administration, President Biden was talking about ending the pandemic. 37:27.450 --> 37:31.560 That's not what he's talking about anymore. They are preparing the public for a lot of 37:31.560 --> 37:36.560 people to get this virus, for vaccinated people even to get COVID, and preparing the public 37:40.400 --> 37:45.400 for that reality, that ending the pandemic isn't necessarily the goal anymore. 37:45.840 --> 37:50.840 And that puts a giant wet blanket on the president's approval, because that uncertainty, that fear 37:54.200 --> 37:58.560 that not knowing if they're going to be shut down, so they insist there won't be, but not 37:58.560 --> 38:03.560 knowing whether they're going to be enough staff who are COVID-negative to staff a school 38:04.090 --> 38:08.160 when you return from Christmas break, these are all things that are weighing on the American 38:08.160 --> 38:10.280 public and weighing on the president's approval. 38:10.280 --> 38:15.130 JUDY WOODRUFF: Unwelcome news in just about any direction you can think of. 38:15.130 --> 38:20.130 Tamara Keith, Amy Walter, we thank you both. Stay safe. 38:22.470 --> 38:27.470 TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome. 38:28.330 --> 38:33.330 AMY WALTER: Thank you. 38:34.200 --> 38:39.200 JUDY WOODRUFF: As we reported earlier, the jury began deliberations today in the federal 38:41.470 --> 38:46.470 sex trafficking and conspiracy trial of Ghislaine Maxwell, the former girlfriend of the late 38:47.521 --> 38:50.920 disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein. 38:50.920 --> 38:53.100 John Yang brings us up to date on the trial. 38:53.100 --> 38:58.100 JOHN YANG: Judy, Maxwell faces six counts that allege she facilitated Epstein's abuse 38:58.780 --> 39:03.780 and trafficking of underage teens. Epstein died in federal jail in 2019, before he himself 39:04.930 --> 39:09.930 could stand trial. This case involves four of the dozens of girls Epstein was accused 39:10.520 --> 39:12.500 of trafficking and abusing more. 39:12.500 --> 39:17.500 Moira Penza is a former assistant U.S. attorney who led the prosecution that resulted in the 39:17.590 --> 39:22.590 2019 sex trafficking conviction of NXIVM cult leader Keith Raniere. She's now a partner 39:23.990 --> 39:26.360 at the firm Wilkinson Stekloff. 39:26.360 --> 39:29.610 Moira, thanks so thanks so much for being with us. 39:29.610 --> 39:34.610 This trial gave the four survivors who are involved in this case the opportunity that 39:36.160 --> 39:41.160 was taken away from them when Epstein died. You have worked -- that is to have a day in 39:42.660 --> 39:43.660 court. 39:43.660 --> 39:48.660 Now, you worked on similar cases, high-profile cases. What does it mean for these survivors, 39:49.350 --> 39:52.360 these women to be able to go into court and tell their story? 39:52.360 --> 39:55.540 MOIRA PENZA, Partner, Wilkinson Stekloff: You know, John, I think it is really important 39:55.540 --> 40:00.540 that people get to see victims of sexual violence have the ability to seek justice through our 40:03.380 --> 40:04.870 criminal justice system. 40:04.870 --> 40:09.870 It is very different than some of the other means of speaking out that we have seen in 40:10.820 --> 40:15.820 the past with the hashtag MeToo movement. We have seen a lot on social media. And there 40:16.780 --> 40:17.890 are benefits to that. 40:17.890 --> 40:22.890 But there is something about seeing individuals brought to justice within the criminal justice 40:23.620 --> 40:28.620 system, where they are able to actually say to the people who did victimize them, actually 40:31.180 --> 40:36.180 be able to testify, withstand cross-examination that brings a lot of credibility to their 40:38.840 --> 40:43.840 testimony and, when done properly, hopefully will be a way of really preventing this sort 40:45.750 --> 40:50.750 of sexual abuse in the future and deterring the type of behavior in a very meaningful 40:51.670 --> 40:52.670 way. 40:52.670 --> 40:55.870 JOHN YANG: The prosecution spent a little less time than had been anticipated. They 40:55.870 --> 41:00.870 called fewer witnesses than they -- than had been expected. 41:02.480 --> 41:07.270 Tell us what the prosecution case was. And, also, talk to us about that, what -- an apparent 41:07.270 --> 41:09.290 decision to streamline a case. 41:09.290 --> 41:14.290 MOIRA PENZA: As a trial attorney, it is really important to streamline your case. And that 41:15.001 --> 41:17.730 is something that takes a lot of discipline. 41:17.730 --> 41:22.730 It is really important to make sure as the prosecutor that you are sticking to the actual 41:23.130 --> 41:28.130 charges against Maxwell and where she was most directly involved. And so I really think 41:29.710 --> 41:34.710 that was a conscience decision on behalf of the prosecution to really highlight those 41:35.010 --> 41:40.010 areas where Maxwell had the most involvement with these victims. 41:40.170 --> 41:45.170 So, we saw that they're -- that they really had their theme of Maxwell as this enabler 41:45.770 --> 41:50.770 in chief, this partner in crime, who was really recruiting and grooming these young girls 41:53.300 --> 41:58.300 for Epstein. And we see that they really were consistent throughout their examination in 42:01.130 --> 42:06.130 maintaining that theme and really presenting Maxwell at the top of this sex abuse pyramid, 42:07.640 --> 42:08.740 as they described it. 42:08.740 --> 42:12.450 JOHN YANG: And what about the defense? They were trying to push that she was the scapegoat 42:12.450 --> 42:14.880 since Epstein was no longer available. 42:14.880 --> 42:16.210 What else did the defense argue? 42:16.210 --> 42:21.210 MOIRA PENZA: The primary defense is really that this isn't about Maxwell, that Maxwell 42:22.010 --> 42:27.010 was separated from a lot of these crimes, that she may have essentially had a bad boyfriend, 42:27.830 --> 42:32.830 but that she didn't necessarily know what was going on behind closed doors. 42:33.360 --> 42:38.360 And that is why we see that the prosecution really focused on, where was Maxwell, the 42:38.590 --> 42:42.870 times when she was actually in the room, when she was actually a participant, when she is 42:42.870 --> 42:47.870 actually getting payments toward the end of Jeffrey Epstein's life to really connect those 42:48.710 --> 42:49.710 dots. 42:49.710 --> 42:54.710 So we definitely saw the defense trying to separate her from that. We also saw what had 42:55.650 --> 43:00.650 to come had become quite common in these sexual abuse of attacking the victim. And we saw 43:02.770 --> 43:04.820 that throughout the cross-examinations. 43:04.820 --> 43:09.820 And what we have seen time and time again is that that often backfires, and that juries 43:11.110 --> 43:16.110 often react very negatively to that sort of cross-examination. So, here, we did see that 43:17.490 --> 43:22.490 there were various attacks of varying kinds. So, whether there was an incentive, a financial 43:25.670 --> 43:29.130 incentive, that is how many of the victims were cross-examined. 43:29.130 --> 43:34.130 But then we also saw cross-examination about issues of memory. Was there some sort of conspiracy 43:37.020 --> 43:40.950 to -- once Epstein was dead, to implicate Maxwell instead? 43:40.950 --> 43:45.200 JOHN YANG: And Maxwell did not take the stand in her own defense, which she is not required 43:45.200 --> 43:50.000 to do. And the judge instructs the jury not to read anything into that. 43:50.000 --> 43:55.000 But we have had a couple of high-profile cases recently where high-profile defendants have 43:55.670 --> 43:59.890 taken the stand. Is that, do you think -- even though they are told not to think about it, 43:59.890 --> 44:01.500 does that have any effect on a juror? 44:01.500 --> 44:06.500 MOIRA PENZA: I do believe that jurors follow the instructions as given to them. 44:07.460 --> 44:12.460 Do I think, as human beings, there can always be a subconscious effect? Of course. But I 44:13.520 --> 44:18.520 do think the Maxwell case is very different than some of the most recent high-profile 44:18.600 --> 44:23.600 cases we have seen, where defendants made the unusual decision to take the stand, because, 44:23.990 --> 44:28.270 far more often than not, it is what we see with Maxwell, where the defendant does not 44:28.270 --> 44:33.270 take the stand and exercises their right not to incriminate themselves, right? 44:33.360 --> 44:38.360 Once you take the stand, then you have essentially waived that right, and you can be cross-examined 44:39.710 --> 44:44.710 about everything that has already been presented during the trial, as well as additional bad 44:47.530 --> 44:50.140 acts that could go to your credibility. 44:50.140 --> 44:55.140 We're not talking about a fraud-based -- a securities-fraud-based crime like we have 44:55.601 --> 44:59.480 in the Holmes trial. We're not talking about Kyle Rittenhouse, where you essentially need 44:59.480 --> 45:01.880 to take the stand in order to show self-defense. 45:01.880 --> 45:06.880 This is a case where Maxwell has already testified under oath previously. She would have to contend 45:08.910 --> 45:13.910 with the testimony that she had given before. And so I don't think it was -- I thought that 45:14.940 --> 45:19.320 she likely would not take the stand and that this was much more consistent with what we 45:19.320 --> 45:24.000 typically would see her being advised by her attorneys to do. 45:24.000 --> 45:26.981 JOHN YANG: Former federal prosecutor Moira Penza, thank you very much. 45:26.981 --> 45:31.981 MOIRA PENZA: Thank you very much for having me. 45:36.750 --> 45:41.750 JUDY WOODRUFF: Now let's return to the challenges of COVID and the perspective of the director 45:47.620 --> 45:50.120 of the National Institutes of Health. 45:50.120 --> 45:55.120 Dr. Francis Collins is retiring from that position after more than a decade. And he 45:55.461 --> 46:00.220 is warning that, if the country doesn't take all the necessary measures, we could face 46:00.220 --> 46:04.230 a million cases a day in the U.S. this winter. 46:04.230 --> 46:09.230 Before he became NIH director, he was known for his work on genetics. He helped discover 46:09.460 --> 46:14.460 the gene that causes cystic fibrosis, and then he led the government's efforts to map 46:14.790 --> 46:19.790 the finished sequence of the human genome, the instructions in our DNA. As NIH director, 46:21.530 --> 46:25.560 he led efforts to grow its budget to $50 billion annually. 46:25.560 --> 46:29.430 I sat down with him recently at the NIH. 46:29.430 --> 46:32.260 Dr. Francis Collins, thank you very much for talking with us. 46:32.260 --> 46:34.200 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, Director, National Institutes of Health: Glad to be with you right here 46:34.200 --> 46:35.200 at NIH. 46:35.200 --> 46:39.260 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Dr. Collins, here we are in the middle of the worst pandemic this country 46:39.260 --> 46:44.260 has faced in a century, and you have announced you are retiring as the head of this essential 46:47.490 --> 46:50.890 medical public health institution, NIH. 46:50.890 --> 46:52.360 Does that compute? 46:52.360 --> 46:53.360 (LAUGHTER) 46:53.360 --> 46:56.940 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: Well, it better because it's happening. 46:56.940 --> 47:01.940 I think it does, Judy. There will never be a perfect time to say it's time to step down. 47:03.690 --> 47:08.690 I have been NIH director now for more than 12 years, serving three presidents. That's 47:09.690 --> 47:14.690 never happened before. NIH directors are appointed by the president, and they generally leave 47:15.050 --> 47:16.220 when the president does. 47:16.220 --> 47:21.220 So, I have outlasted my shelf life by about a factor of two. And I decided back a few 47:22.780 --> 47:27.240 months ago that, if I wasn't going to stick it out for the indefinite future, I need to 47:27.240 --> 47:32.240 give a chance for President Biden to identify a new director and nominate that person. 47:33.730 --> 47:38.730 And let me reassure you, as far as COVID, the science that NIH has done in the last 47:39.370 --> 47:44.370 two years has been astounding, but the people leading that effort, they're not going anywhere. 47:45.830 --> 47:50.830 And the team is just rock-solid, dedicated, committed, smart. We will be OK here at NIH. 47:51.890 --> 47:53.840 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, I wanted to ask you about that. 47:53.840 --> 47:58.220 I mean, what -- if you had to pin down the main contribution NIH has made during this 47:58.220 --> 47:59.220 COVID pandemic? 47:59.220 --> 48:04.220 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: The most visible one, the vaccines, development of those mRNA vaccines, 48:05.380 --> 48:10.380 Pfizer and Moderna, based on 25 years of really hard-won basic science advances that nobody 48:12.580 --> 48:16.210 was really paying much attention, to get that approved by the FDA. 48:16.210 --> 48:19.680 We were smack in the middle of that. That would never have happened without all the 48:19.680 --> 48:21.230 NIH efforts. 48:21.230 --> 48:26.230 Therapeutics. I worked with industry building an unprecedented partnership that brought 48:26.490 --> 48:31.490 20 companies, all of the NIH institutes, the FDA and the CDC around the same table, designing 48:32.210 --> 48:37.210 master protocols, figuring out how to prioritize which things ought to be tested first. And 48:37.901 --> 48:42.901 ultimately out of that came monoclonal antibodies that do work therapeutically. 48:42.910 --> 48:47.910 And then diagnostics. The fact that there are diagnostic tests on the pharmacy shelves, 48:48.670 --> 48:53.620 we had a lot to do with that. The fact that today there will be about two million tests 48:53.620 --> 48:55.860 that are run, we had a lot to do with that. 48:55.860 --> 49:00.860 JUDY WOODRUFF: And is there something you would wish you could have emerged from NIH? 49:01.580 --> 49:06.580 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: You know, maybe we underinvested in research on human behavior. 49:08.200 --> 49:13.200 I never imagined a year ago, when those vaccines were just proving to be fantastically safe 49:15.720 --> 49:20.720 and effective, that we would still have 60 million people who had not taken advantage 49:21.570 --> 49:26.570 of them because of misinformation and disinformation that somehow dominated all of the ways in 49:30.010 --> 49:33.270 which people were getting their answers. 49:33.270 --> 49:38.270 And a lot of those answers were, in fact, false. And we have lost so much as a result 49:38.490 --> 49:39.490 of that. 49:39.490 --> 49:44.490 JUDY WOODRUFF: Your specialty going back many years is genetics, a physician researcher. 49:46.790 --> 49:50.070 You started working in that area decades ago. 49:50.070 --> 49:55.070 You have done, what, groundbreaking work, work that led to cracking the human genome. 49:57.080 --> 49:58.740 What has that meant to you? 49:58.740 --> 50:03.740 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: It was an amazing adventure that I did with 2,400 other scientists in 50:05.690 --> 50:10.690 six countries, because that's what it took to read out that first copy of the human genome, 50:11.470 --> 50:14.880 those three billion letters of our own instruction book. 50:14.880 --> 50:19.880 It had this sense of significance, of history, that we are crossing a bridge into a territory 50:22.790 --> 50:27.790 where we know our own instruction book. For all of history, we haven't known that. Now, 50:28.130 --> 50:33.010 it's written in a language we're still trying to figure out how to read accurately, so the 50:33.010 --> 50:36.150 work on the human genome will be going on for a long time. 50:36.150 --> 50:40.091 But we had it. And it was public. It was on the Internet. We made sure of that too. It's 50:40.091 --> 50:41.091 our shared inheritance. 50:41.091 --> 50:45.140 JUDY WOODRUFF: You mentioned how far we have come, that it's going to go on for years. 50:45.140 --> 50:49.040 There was a lot of talk in the beginning, a lot of promise, I think, that it would lead 50:49.040 --> 50:54.040 to breakthroughs right away in a number of illnesses, diseases. That's taken longer than 50:56.410 --> 50:57.480 originally thought, hasn't it? 50:57.480 --> 50:59.270 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: Than some would have thought. 50:59.270 --> 51:03.950 You know, there's something called the first law of technology, that when there is a breakthrough 51:03.950 --> 51:08.950 discovery, and it really is something significant, people will always overestimate its short-term 51:09.180 --> 51:13.840 consequences and underestimate its long-term consequences. 51:13.840 --> 51:18.800 I think the Genome Project is a perfect example. There were some statements -- I hope I didn't 51:18.800 --> 51:23.520 make them -- saying, OK, when you go to your doctor next week, it's all going to be different. 51:23.520 --> 51:28.520 No. But look at where we are now and where we may be 20 or 30 years from now. It's transformative. 51:30.130 --> 51:35.130 By the way, you go to any research lab, like mine across the way here, we couldn't do anything 51:35.990 --> 51:40.860 without the genome and its technologies. I mean, everybody who's working in human medicine 51:40.860 --> 51:44.780 is basing a lot of what they're doing on that as an anchor. 51:44.780 --> 51:48.860 JUDY WOODRUFF: You are known, Dr. Collins, to pay a lot of attention to moral and ethical 51:48.860 --> 51:53.860 considerations around the genome questions, genetic research. 51:53.900 --> 51:58.900 You have been critical of the way the gene editing technology has been used unethically 52:00.750 --> 52:05.750 before, this technique CRISPR, not necessarily that, per se, but as some scientist outside 52:07.080 --> 52:12.080 the United States have used it. But do you worry that we may get too far down that path 52:13.240 --> 52:14.490 at some point soon? 52:14.490 --> 52:16.071 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: I worry. 52:16.071 --> 52:21.071 I think we already saw one example, where a Chinese scientist, despite the pretty general 52:22.310 --> 52:27.310 international agreement that gene editing should not be used for human embryos, did 52:27.550 --> 52:32.550 so anyway. I don't think that's happened since because of the strong outcry. 52:33.200 --> 52:38.200 This is such a paradox, though, Judy, because gene editing applied in other places, not 52:38.450 --> 52:43.450 to embryos, but to people with sickle cell disease to fix what's causing their disease 52:43.500 --> 52:48.500 by editing their bone marrow, is like one of the most exciting, most amazing developments 52:49.250 --> 52:53.140 in the last five years, one that I'm wildly enthusiastic about, and have put a lot of 52:53.140 --> 52:55.120 NIH resources into it. 52:55.120 --> 52:59.810 But that's very different. That doesn't get into the hereditary DNA that's going to get 52:59.810 --> 53:04.710 passed to the next generation. If you're doing hereditary DNA on humans, you have crossed 53:04.710 --> 53:09.710 a line into territory that I don't think we are smart enough to go into and that has consequences, 53:10.950 --> 53:15.520 both in terms of safety, but also in terms of theology and philosophy about, are we going 53:15.520 --> 53:17.100 to reinvent who we are? 53:17.100 --> 53:19.040 I don't think we're ready to do that. 53:19.040 --> 53:23.541 JUDY WOODRUFF: Your faith. You have been very open about your Christian faith. How has it 53:23.541 --> 53:25.160 changed your work, do you think? 53:25.160 --> 53:30.160 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: I think I'm really fortunate to be somebody who has both a scientific approach 53:31.380 --> 53:36.380 to understanding how nature works and a spiritual approach to understanding things that science 53:37.090 --> 53:42.090 doesn't help me much with, like, why am I here, what is the nature of morality? 53:44.660 --> 53:49.660 For me as a scientist, though, it takes on additional consequences when a new discovery 53:50.770 --> 53:55.770 happens, because I see God as the author of all that we have been given. That means that 53:56.920 --> 54:01.920 the laboratory is also potentially a cathedral, because what we're doing is to learn how to 54:04.310 --> 54:09.310 be even more amazed at what we have been given as human beings surrounded by a beautiful 54:09.790 --> 54:10.790 world. 54:10.790 --> 54:15.790 JUDY WOODRUFF: Dr. Francis Collins, thank you very much for talking with us. We appreciate 54:16.000 --> 54:17.000 it. 54:17.000 --> 54:18.000 DR. FRANCIS COLLINS: Thanks, Judy. 54:18.000 --> 54:22.490 And may I say, it has been an absolute privilege to serve the National Institutes of Health 54:22.490 --> 54:27.490 for these 12-plus years. I love the NIH. I have loved my job. I love what medical research 54:28.780 --> 54:31.500 has been able to do and will continue to do. 54:31.500 --> 54:36.500 JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you. 54:47.510 --> 54:52.290 Online right now: Michigan teachers already burned out by the pandemic say they are now 54:52.290 --> 54:57.290 frustrated by threats of gun violence that have continued since last month's deadly shooting 54:58.090 --> 55:03.090 at Oxford High. You can read more at PBS.org/NewsHour. 55:03.750 --> 55:06.130 And that's the "NewsHour" for tonight. I'm Judy Woodruff. 55:06.130 --> 55:11.130 For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour," thank you, please do stay safe, and we'll see you soon.