1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:03,966 AMNA NAWAZ: And diving now into the legal and political fallout, 2 00:00:03,966 --> 00:00:08,400 I'm joined by former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and ProPublica reporter Andrea Bernstein, 3 00:00:09,566 --> 00:00:11,433 who has long covered the former president. 4 00:00:11,433 --> 00:00:13,900 Welcome to both of you, and thanks for joining us. 5 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:17,100 Elie, we have to point out there's a lot we don't know yet. But let's 6 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,100 start with what we do know. As Geoff Bennett reported earlier, 7 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:23,866 Mr. Trump is expected to be arraigned on Tuesday. There is a whole process. 8 00:00:23,866 --> 00:00:28,733 Walk us through what happens and when we should expect more details on the indictment itself. 9 00:00:28,733 --> 00:00:31,333 ELIE HONIG, Former Federal Prosecutor: Sure, Amna. 10 00:00:31,333 --> 00:00:34,266 For all the hoopla and the circus-like atmosphere that's sure to envelop the courthouse on Tuesday, 11 00:00:36,266 --> 00:00:39,966 this will really be a fairly routine proceeding. Donald Trump will be led 12 00:00:39,966 --> 00:00:42,366 into the building, surely under tight lock and key, 13 00:00:42,366 --> 00:00:46,933 not handcuffed, to be clear. He will be fingerprinted. He will be mug-shotted. 14 00:00:46,933 --> 00:00:51,333 The mug shot, by the way, is supposed to remain not public under New York law. Then 15 00:00:51,333 --> 00:00:55,933 he will come out for a court appearance. At that point, the indictment will be unsealed, 16 00:00:55,933 --> 00:01:00,133 meaning it will become available to us in the general public and the media. Donald 17 00:01:00,133 --> 00:01:04,233 Trump will then be advised of the charges against him. He will enter a not guilty plea. 18 00:01:04,233 --> 00:01:08,633 The judge will then release Donald Trump on bail, what we call released on his own recognizance, 19 00:01:08,633 --> 00:01:11,633 meaning leave him free to go. And he just has to come back from the 20 00:01:11,633 --> 00:01:15,400 next court appearance. And then we will be under way. We will be into our court 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,600 system under a case captioned People of the State of New York vs. Donald J. Trump. 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,100 AMNA NAWAZ: Andrea, a defense attorney for Mr. Trump, Joe Tacopina, 23 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:27,166 said Mr. Trump was shocked by the indictment, also that he is -- quote -- "ready to fight." 24 00:01:27,166 --> 00:01:29,266 What does that say to you? 25 00:01:29,266 --> 00:01:33,666 ANDREA BERNSTEIN, ProPublica: Well, Trump's lawyers have been attacking a potential indictment 26 00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:39,666 for weeks now. They have been saying the case is weak. They have been saying it's unprecedented. 27 00:01:41,666 --> 00:01:43,766 Of course, it's hard to tell because we haven't actually seen an indictment. We 28 00:01:43,766 --> 00:01:47,766 have seen any charges. We haven't -- we have no indication of the evidence that 29 00:01:47,766 --> 00:01:51,933 the DA has put forward in this case. So, all of that is yet to be learned. 30 00:01:51,933 --> 00:01:56,900 We will begin learning on Tuesday, when the indictment is unsealed. But, 31 00:01:58,733 --> 00:02:02,033 of course, it'll take many months of the trial proceedings to -- and probably the 32 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,933 trial itself to really understand the full dimensions of this case. 33 00:02:05,933 --> 00:02:09,900 AMNA NAWAZ: Elie, as Geoff reported, the security preps in New York are beginning. 34 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,366 We have heard some of the language from Mr. Trump and his supporters in the past. 35 00:02:13,366 --> 00:02:17,133 The idea of political violence in this case is not a hypothetical. We 36 00:02:17,133 --> 00:02:19,900 have seen what happens when some of his supporters have followed his instruction 37 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:24,233 in the past. Can he be prevented from inciting violence in this case? 38 00:02:24,233 --> 00:02:27,233 ELIE HONIG: So there is a way, at an extreme, 39 00:02:27,233 --> 00:02:31,733 where a judge can impose what we call a gag order, meaning issue an official court order 40 00:02:31,733 --> 00:02:36,733 prohibiting a participant in a trial from speaking. That is a very high bar legally. 41 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,200 Now, any participant in the justice system has the right to criticize a judge or a prosecutor. 42 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:46,200 It's not a great idea, but they do have that right. However, I believe there are lines 43 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,833 here that already have been crossed in the way that Donald Trump has launched attacks, 44 00:02:50,833 --> 00:02:55,800 including racist attacks, including attacks not so subtly calling for violent resistance. 45 00:02:57,233 --> 00:02:59,266 And so I do think we could get to a point fairly 46 00:02:59,266 --> 00:03:01,800 quickly where the prosecutor needs to go to the judge and say: Judge, 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,100 it's an extreme measure. We rarely do it. But we need a gag order in this case. 48 00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:08,800 We're not there yet, but it's something the prosecutor has to be thinking about. 49 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,800 AMNA NAWAZ: And, Andrea, you have been following this case very, very closely. We do not know the 50 00:03:15,766 --> 00:03:18,400 details of that indictment yet. But knowing it is related to those hush money payments 51 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,133 involving an alleged affair with Mr. Trump, what could potential charges look like in this case? 52 00:03:23,133 --> 00:03:28,133 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: So the discussion has centered around falsification of business records, which, 53 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:33,166 in New York, can be an E felony punishable with jail time of up to four years. 54 00:03:33,166 --> 00:03:38,166 Now, of course, that infrequently is applied in these kinds of white-collar cases. But it is a 55 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:43,333 felony in New York. It is a serious charge. And the allegation, and what the DEA has been looking 56 00:03:45,733 --> 00:03:49,033 at is, we know from Michael Cohen that he paid money to Stormy Daniels. We know from records that 57 00:03:51,466 --> 00:03:55,400 the prosecution in that case released that they were the -- that hush money payment was reimbursed 58 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,000 by Donald Trump, and that Trump's company referred to it as a legal retainer, which it was not. 59 00:04:06,766 --> 00:04:11,733 What is being investigated is Trump's alleged role in all of this. And by the fact that there's an 60 00:04:11,733 --> 00:04:15,633 indictment, it appears that the DA believes there is sufficient evidence to prove that 61 00:04:15,633 --> 00:04:20,633 Mr. Trump orchestrated this scheme of calling something a legal retainer that was actually, 62 00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:25,233 as Michael Cohen has described it, a sort of last-ditch effort, 63 00:04:25,233 --> 00:04:30,233 successful, as Cohen described it, to save Mr. Trump's 2016 election bid at that time. 64 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,700 And, of course, this all came out after the "Access Hollywood" tape, 65 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:39,766 just when within weeks of that. So that is the question that I think 66 00:04:39,766 --> 00:04:44,766 we will be seeing be laid out in these legal procedures is, what did Mr. Trump do to keep 67 00:04:46,833 --> 00:04:49,233 this testimony from coming forward? And what kind of arrangements did he make? 68 00:04:49,233 --> 00:04:54,233 So all of that remains a question, of course. And then, before any of that happens, we certainly 69 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,633 expect Mr. Trump's team to try to get the appeals courts in New York to throw out the indictment. 70 00:05:02,266 --> 00:05:06,233 So there will certainly be legal maneuvering in this case starting very quickly, I would imagine. 71 00:05:07,766 --> 00:05:10,366 AMNA NAWAZ: A lot to cover. A lot we don't yet know, 72 00:05:10,366 --> 00:05:14,033 but we thank both of you for joining us today to explain all of that. 73 00:05:14,033 --> 00:05:17,333 That is Elie Honig and Andrea Bernstein. Thank you to you both. 74 00:05:17,333 --> 00:05:18,933 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Thank you.