WEBVTT 00:01.466 --> 00:03.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And diving now into the legal and political fallout, 00:03.966 --> 00:08.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I'm joined by former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and ProPublica reporter Andrea Bernstein, 00:09.566 --> 00:11.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% who has long covered the former president. 00:11.433 --> 00:13.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Welcome to both of you, and thanks for joining us. 00:13.900 --> 00:17.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Elie, we have to point out there's a lot we don't know yet. But let's 00:17.100 --> 00:20.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% start with what we do know. As Geoff Bennett reported earlier, 00:20.100 --> 00:23.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Mr. Trump is expected to be arraigned on Tuesday. There is a whole process. 00:23.866 --> 00:28.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Walk us through what happens and when we should expect more details on the indictment itself. 00:28.733 --> 00:31.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ELIE HONIG, Former Federal Prosecutor: Sure, Amna. 00:31.333 --> 00:34.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% For all the hoopla and the circus-like atmosphere that's sure to envelop the courthouse on Tuesday, 00:36.266 --> 00:39.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this will really be a fairly routine proceeding. Donald Trump will be led 00:39.966 --> 00:42.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% into the building, surely under tight lock and key, 00:42.366 --> 00:46.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not handcuffed, to be clear. He will be fingerprinted. He will be mug-shotted. 00:46.933 --> 00:51.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The mug shot, by the way, is supposed to remain not public under New York law. Then 00:51.333 --> 00:55.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he will come out for a court appearance. At that point, the indictment will be unsealed, 00:55.933 --> 01:00.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% meaning it will become available to us in the general public and the media. Donald 01:00.133 --> 01:04.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump will then be advised of the charges against him. He will enter a not guilty plea. 01:04.233 --> 01:08.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The judge will then release Donald Trump on bail, what we call released on his own recognizance, 01:08.633 --> 01:11.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% meaning leave him free to go. And he just has to come back from the 01:11.633 --> 01:15.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% next court appearance. And then we will be under way. We will be into our court 01:15.400 --> 01:19.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% system under a case captioned People of the State of New York vs. Donald J. Trump. 01:19.600 --> 01:23.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Andrea, a defense attorney for Mr. Trump, Joe Tacopina, 01:23.100 --> 01:27.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% said Mr. Trump was shocked by the indictment, also that he is -- quote -- "ready to fight." 01:27.166 --> 01:29.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What does that say to you? 01:29.266 --> 01:33.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ANDREA BERNSTEIN, ProPublica: Well, Trump's lawyers have been attacking a potential indictment 01:36.166 --> 01:39.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for weeks now. They have been saying the case is weak. They have been saying it's unprecedented. 01:41.666 --> 01:43.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Of course, it's hard to tell because we haven't actually seen an indictment. We 01:43.766 --> 01:47.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have seen any charges. We haven't -- we have no indication of the evidence that 01:47.766 --> 01:51.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the DA has put forward in this case. So, all of that is yet to be learned. 01:51.933 --> 01:56.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We will begin learning on Tuesday, when the indictment is unsealed. But, 01:58.733 --> 02:02.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of course, it'll take many months of the trial proceedings to -- and probably the 02:03.600 --> 02:05.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% trial itself to really understand the full dimensions of this case. 02:05.933 --> 02:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Elie, as Geoff reported, the security preps in New York are beginning. 02:09.900 --> 02:13.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have heard some of the language from Mr. Trump and his supporters in the past. 02:13.366 --> 02:17.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The idea of political violence in this case is not a hypothetical. We 02:17.133 --> 02:19.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have seen what happens when some of his supporters have followed his instruction 02:19.900 --> 02:24.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in the past. Can he be prevented from inciting violence in this case? 02:24.233 --> 02:27.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ELIE HONIG: So there is a way, at an extreme, 02:27.233 --> 02:31.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% where a judge can impose what we call a gag order, meaning issue an official court order 02:31.733 --> 02:36.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% prohibiting a participant in a trial from speaking. That is a very high bar legally. 02:38.800 --> 02:42.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Now, any participant in the justice system has the right to criticize a judge or a prosecutor. 02:44.100 --> 02:46.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's not a great idea, but they do have that right. However, I believe there are lines 02:46.200 --> 02:50.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% here that already have been crossed in the way that Donald Trump has launched attacks, 02:50.833 --> 02:55.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% including racist attacks, including attacks not so subtly calling for violent resistance. 02:57.233 --> 02:59.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And so I do think we could get to a point fairly 02:59.266 --> 03:01.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% quickly where the prosecutor needs to go to the judge and say: Judge, 03:01.800 --> 03:06.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's an extreme measure. We rarely do it. But we need a gag order in this case. 03:06.100 --> 03:08.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We're not there yet, but it's something the prosecutor has to be thinking about. 03:08.800 --> 03:13.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And, Andrea, you have been following this case very, very closely. We do not know the 03:15.766 --> 03:18.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% details of that indictment yet. But knowing it is related to those hush money payments 03:18.400 --> 03:23.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% involving an alleged affair with Mr. Trump, what could potential charges look like in this case? 03:23.133 --> 03:28.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ANDREA BERNSTEIN: So the discussion has centered around falsification of business records, which, 03:30.100 --> 03:33.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in New York, can be an E felony punishable with jail time of up to four years. 03:33.166 --> 03:38.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, of course, that infrequently is applied in these kinds of white-collar cases. But it is a 03:40.266 --> 03:43.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% felony in New York. It is a serious charge. And the allegation, and what the DEA has been looking 03:45.733 --> 03:49.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% at is, we know from Michael Cohen that he paid money to Stormy Daniels. We know from records that 03:51.466 --> 03:55.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the prosecution in that case released that they were the -- that hush money payment was reimbursed 03:57.800 --> 04:02.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% by Donald Trump, and that Trump's company referred to it as a legal retainer, which it was not. 04:06.766 --> 04:11.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% What is being investigated is Trump's alleged role in all of this. And by the fact that there's an 04:11.733 --> 04:15.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% indictment, it appears that the DA believes there is sufficient evidence to prove that 04:15.633 --> 04:20.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Mr. Trump orchestrated this scheme of calling something a legal retainer that was actually, 04:22.066 --> 04:25.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% as Michael Cohen has described it, a sort of last-ditch effort, 04:25.233 --> 04:30.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% successful, as Cohen described it, to save Mr. Trump's 2016 election bid at that time. 04:32.200 --> 04:35.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And, of course, this all came out after the "Access Hollywood" tape, 04:37.300 --> 04:39.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% just when within weeks of that. So that is the question that I think 04:39.766 --> 04:44.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we will be seeing be laid out in these legal procedures is, what did Mr. Trump do to keep 04:46.833 --> 04:49.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this testimony from coming forward? And what kind of arrangements did he make? 04:49.233 --> 04:54.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So all of that remains a question, of course. And then, before any of that happens, we certainly 04:56.800 --> 04:59.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% expect Mr. Trump's team to try to get the appeals courts in New York to throw out the indictment. 05:02.266 --> 05:06.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So there will certainly be legal maneuvering in this case starting very quickly, I would imagine. 05:07.766 --> 05:10.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: A lot to cover. A lot we don't yet know, 05:10.366 --> 05:14.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but we thank both of you for joining us today to explain all of that. 05:14.033 --> 05:17.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% That is Elie Honig and Andrea Bernstein. Thank you to you both. 05:17.333 --> 05:18.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Thank you.