WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:04.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill are working to pass a much 00:04.033 --> 00:08.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% narrower version of the once ambitious Build Back Better bill, while the White 00:08.000 --> 00:13.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% House continues to navigate how best to secure abortion protections after the fall of Roe. 00:14.433 --> 00:16.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% To discuss the political stakes of all this, I'm joined now by 00:16.933 --> 00:21.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Tamara Keith of NPR and Annie Linskey of The Washington Post. Amy Walter is away. 00:23.300 --> 00:25.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Welcome to you both. Thank you for being here. 00:25.366 --> 00:28.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it's fair to say that was a very sobering report from Laura Barron-Lopez there. 00:28.866 --> 00:33.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Tam, we have covered, you have covered individual moments like that for years. When you see it 00:33.100 --> 00:37.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pulled together like this, what does it say to you about this moment we're in as a nation? 00:37.300 --> 00:40.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: There is a rising fear in many corners of this 00:40.733 --> 00:45.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% country that political violence -- that the country is just crackling and ripe for 00:47.300 --> 00:49.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% even worse political violence than we have seen thus far. 00:51.933 --> 00:55.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Also, I will add that the QAnon conspiracy theory is full of violent imagery, of 00:57.866 --> 01:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% fantasies of assassinations of political enemies, a long list of political enemies 01:04.600 --> 01:09.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% taken off to Guantanamo. That imagery is very much part of QAnon, which is 01:11.200 --> 01:15.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% very much part of the political dialogue in America on the right. And it can't be ignored. 01:17.333 --> 01:20.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And you say on the right there, because it's a key point to make. 01:20.066 --> 01:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Annie, we just heard their sentiment Minority Leader Mitch McConnell say, look, it's up to 01:24.700 --> 01:29.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the voters to decide if this is acceptable to them or not. It is clear the Republican Party 01:29.600 --> 01:34.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% now houses these kinds of conspiracy theorists, extremist ideas, authoritarian ideas. 01:36.633 --> 01:39.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Do you see anything among leadership or on the electoral landscape that would change that? 01:39.333 --> 01:41.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ANNIE LINSKEY, The Washington Post: Yes. 01:41.800 --> 01:44.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, that was such a powerful report. And I think hearing Mitch McConnell's response, which 01:47.166 --> 01:50.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is essentially, let's let the voters decide, is a unique response on the Republican side. I mean, 01:53.233 --> 01:58.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I think Tam is absolutely right that the QAnon theory certainly does have this imagery. 02:00.400 --> 02:04.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But we have all been to political rallies where emotions run high. And I have been at Democratic 02:10.300 --> 02:15.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% events where certain -- people in the audience become on -- say violent things. And the 02:17.333 --> 02:21.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% difference is, the leadership on the Democratic side will tend to turn the volume down a little 02:23.866 --> 02:27.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% bit, rather than sort of stepping aside, which is what McConnell is doing, or what some of the 02:27.100 --> 02:32.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% other people and the candidates for office in that report are doing, which is really just fostering 02:34.033 --> 02:37.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and normalizing the kind of extreme violence that we are not used to in modern politics. 02:39.166 --> 02:40.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Do you feel like it's become normalized, on that side, at least. 02:40.400 --> 02:42.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ANNIE LINSKEY: I mean, it's -- you just see 02:42.400 --> 02:46.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% so many of those ads. And you're also not seeing the response from the leadership. 02:46.233 --> 02:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, to me, those two things, the sort of silence or even the sort of 02:50.266 --> 02:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% gentle nudging in that direction, combined with the just seeing more and more of it, 02:54.733 --> 02:56.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I mean, that is the path to normalization right there. 02:56.733 --> 02:58.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Well, we have seen, of course, Democrats come out and 02:58.833 --> 03:01.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% condemn it. The president has come out and condemned it several times over. 03:01.666 --> 03:05.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But he's also of course, got an eye on this quickly closing legislative window, 03:05.433 --> 03:08.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it's fair to say. And when we talk about Build Back Better, first of all, it's 03:08.933 --> 03:13.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a phrase we haven't heard a lot of lately. This is not the ambitious plan they once put forward. 03:16.000 --> 03:18.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So what does it mean right now, essentially when you look at the fact that this 03:18.100 --> 03:21.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% plan was brought down by a member of their own party, by Senator Joe Manchin? 03:21.200 --> 03:25.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: As President Biden has said many times over the last year-and-a-half, 03:25.200 --> 03:28.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in a 50/50, Senate, every senator is president. 03:28.633 --> 03:33.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Joe Manchin has -- every senator, including Joe Manchin, but especially Joe Manchin, 03:35.000 --> 03:37.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% has an outsized vote on these matters. The White House 03:37.500 --> 03:42.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is seemingly willing to try to bag any win that they can get. 03:42.233 --> 03:47.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And so they have pivoted from not really wanting to talk about defeat on the climate measures that 03:49.233 --> 03:52.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% were being discussed, and sort of holding out hope, but I don't know what kind of hope they're 03:52.866 --> 03:57.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% holding out, to talking about what Joe Manchin will support and what President Biden will take, 03:59.933 --> 04:04.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which is -- without congressional action, there is going to be a cliff, 04:07.333 --> 04:10.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a huge spike in Obamacare premiums that would hit millions of American families, as they're 04:13.233 --> 04:15.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% dealing with higher prices on so many things, and right before people go to vote in the midterms. 04:15.833 --> 04:20.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So that would be kind of a political nightmare, if that is allowed to happen. 04:20.300 --> 04:25.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So this legislation they're talking about, this very, very, very, very pared-back legislation, 04:27.800 --> 04:32.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% would take care of that Obamacare -- Obamacare cliff and would also allow Medicare to negotiate 04:34.233 --> 04:36.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% prescription drug prices, details obviously still to be worked out. 04:38.800 --> 04:42.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Problems could still arise. But the idea is, these are two things that 04:42.066 --> 04:46.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% affect Americans. And it's something that Democrats could campaign on, 04:48.266 --> 04:52.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as long as they leave out the fact that this big, bold Build Back Better went away. 04:52.066 --> 04:53.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Those are necessary caveats. So, 04:53.500 --> 04:55.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% details still to be worked out. Things could still change. 04:55.600 --> 04:57.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Annie, what's your take on this? 04:57.066 --> 04:59.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: I have to say it's very fashionable right now 04:59.900 --> 05:04.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% among certain people to talk about what a terrible job Joe Biden is doing. 05:04.533 --> 05:09.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, his approval rating is awful. And this is a much smaller package than he had conceived 05:12.033 --> 05:16.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of and he had talked about and his people have talked about. That being said, for this to pass, 05:18.933 --> 05:22.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a cap on prescription drugs, I mean, it would actually be quite a big win. I mean, 05:22.800 --> 05:27.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% even though it's not the giant win, it's not the, like, medium win, it's still a win. 05:29.700 --> 05:33.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it's one that Democrats and Republicans have diabetes. They both pay for high 05:35.166 --> 05:38.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% costs of insulin. And this is the type of legislation that could 05:40.133 --> 05:43.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% help certainly around the edges and perhaps more in the midterms. 05:43.033 --> 05:46.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Tam, what about the White House response in the fallout 05:46.700 --> 05:50.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% after the fall of Roe? They have faced a lot of criticism for not having something ready sooner 05:50.800 --> 05:54.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to respond to that and secure some of those protections. What are they saying about that? 05:54.233 --> 05:58.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: So, it seems as though this White House and the fall of Roe 05:58.066 --> 06:03.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was just the latest example, but that this White House is sort of unwilling to flaunt 06:05.500 --> 06:09.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% their executive authority, that the president - - other presidents do executive actions that 06:11.700 --> 06:15.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% amount to basically glorified press releases, but they treat it like a really big deal. 06:15.900 --> 06:20.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And this president has executive actions. Now, maybe there is some criticism that they maybe 06:22.933 --> 06:26.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% waited a little bit too long on the executive actions to respond to the Supreme Court decision. 06:28.033 --> 06:31.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But instead of trumpeting it, President Biden and his team emphasize that, well, 06:34.000 --> 06:36.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% their powers are really limited. There's only so much they can do. 06:36.933 --> 06:39.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it almost seems like they're headed down that 06:39.833 --> 06:43.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% path on climate change-related administrative actions as well. 06:43.200 --> 06:46.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: And, Annie, in the House, of course, we have seen Democrats taking what action they 06:46.066 --> 06:50.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% can. They want to show they're trying, right, even if it doesn't go anywhere in the Senate. 06:50.700 --> 06:54.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But the most coherent message among Democrats right now just seems to be, look, 06:54.700 --> 06:58.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if you want these rights protected, show up in November and vote. Is that fair? 06:58.800 --> 07:02.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: I think that's certainly what's coming from the top of the party. 07:02.300 --> 07:07.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I think it's absolutely not enough for voters. And even you're seeing lawmakers who are state 07:09.266 --> 07:13.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% legislators Really pointing the finger to Washington, and even to Joe Biden himself, 07:15.033 --> 07:16.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to even President Biden himself, and saying, this is not enough, do better. 07:16.866 --> 07:20.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% There's one lawmaker in Texas who came out and said, look, we need 07:20.633 --> 07:25.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a little bit less Washington and playing nice from Joe Biden and a little more Texas, 07:25.100 --> 07:29.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% a little more of a rough edge here. And so they want to see a fighter. 07:29.833 --> 07:34.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think, to Tamara's point, I mean, this was not a surprise, by any means. And so for Biden 07:36.833 --> 07:40.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to take so long to put out an executive order that surely had been prepared well in advance 07:41.966 --> 07:44.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is sort of mind-boggling to a lot of people. He's just really an imperfect messenger 07:44.933 --> 07:49.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on this particular issue, and has left a lot of Democrats sort of wanting more. 07:52.500 --> 07:54.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And when we say too long, we should point out, so the leaked draft of that decision... 07:54.033 --> 07:56.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: Yes. AMNA NAWAZ: ... ruling came out in late May, 07:56.133 --> 07:59.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right, the decision in late June. It was two weeks is my recollection was that... 07:59.300 --> 08:00.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 08:00.866 --> 08:03.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: And even when the court said, no, that they were 08:03.000 --> 08:05.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% going to take the case, I mean, arguably, there was an entire year to prepare. 08:06.433 --> 08:09.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And, certainly, ever since the leaked decision came out, 08:09.033 --> 08:13.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% there was -- it was clear that this is -- was a pretty good signal of where the court was going. 08:13.033 --> 08:16.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: Now, during those two weeks, President Biden was on an overseas trip 08:16.933 --> 08:21.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% dealing with Ukraine and other crises. And then, just this last week, 08:23.866 --> 08:25.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he was also on another foreign trip. So he's had a very busy travel schedule. 08:27.233 --> 08:29.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But this is a White House, as every White House, 08:29.600 --> 08:31.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who says they can walk and chew gum at the same time. 08:31.600 --> 08:35.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Do we -- are we likely to see any other action from them on this front? 08:35.033 --> 08:38.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% TAMARA KEITH: I mean, I don't think so. 08:38.133 --> 08:40.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: It's hard to see at this point. I mean, 08:40.233 --> 08:42.066 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I think they have kind of emptied the arsenal. 08:42.066 --> 08:46.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But, I mean, Democrats are still pushing. And if there's anything 08:46.000 --> 08:49.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that this White House has responded to, it has been being pushed from their party. 08:49.666 --> 08:54.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: And, also, it may not be a signed executive order. It could well be actions taken 08:56.733 --> 09:01.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% at the -- at the agency level that don't get as much attention, unless they were to tout it. 09:02.333 --> 09:03.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Which they are likely to do, Tam? 09:03.900 --> 09:05.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% TAMARA KEITH: Who knows. 09:05.833 --> 09:07.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: We will follow it all. It's certainly very important. 09:07.500 --> 09:12.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Tamara Keith, Annie Linskey, thank you to you both. 09:21.333 --> 09:22.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ANNIE LINSKEY: Thank you. 09:22.466 --> 09:23.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.