1 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:05,200 AMNA NAWAZ: Now let's discuss this with one of Weinstein's defense attorneys, Donna Rotunno. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,433 She joins us from New York. 3 00:00:06,433 --> 00:00:08,500 Donna, welcome to the "NewsHour." 4 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:12,300 In response to the verdict, you said in a statement there are issues in the trial that 5 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:17,300 - - quote -- "prejudiced" your client's ability to have his case fairly judged. 6 00:00:19,333 --> 00:00:21,000 You are taking this up with a higher court, we should point out. But in what way do you 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,733 think this jury or this court were prejudiced towards Mr. Weinstein? 8 00:00:23,733 --> 00:00:27,200 DONNA ROTUNNO, Attorney For Harvey Weinstein: Well, I don't know if Mr. Weinstein could 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,866 have found a fair jury anywhere, frankly, with the media coverage that has happened 10 00:00:31,866 --> 00:00:36,800 for the last two years, with the fact that, especially in New York, every day, he's a 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,833 headline. 12 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:41,966 He's on the cover of The Post. He's a headline in The New York Times, The Daily News, The 13 00:00:41,966 --> 00:00:46,466 Daily Beast, BuzzFeed. So, I think it was very difficult. 14 00:00:46,466 --> 00:00:51,433 When we questioned jurors, not one of the jurors had not heard of Mr. Weinstein out 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,400 of the weeks of jury selection. So I think we were just put in a difficult position from 16 00:00:58,266 --> 00:01:00,366 day one. 17 00:01:00,366 --> 00:01:02,400 AMNA NAWAZ: But he was convicted on two charges. They also acquitted him on two charges. 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,300 So, is it fair to say that they prejudged him, when they did end up acquitting him on 19 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:07,300 two of those charges? 20 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:09,900 DONNA ROTUNNO: Well, they acquitted him on three charges, actually, and acquitted (sic) 21 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:11,833 him on two. 22 00:01:11,833 --> 00:01:15,200 I think that, really, what this was about was, the evidence wasn't there to support 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,633 a conviction. I have said that from the very beginning. I know, when I first got involved 24 00:01:18,633 --> 00:01:22,433 in this case, everyone thought that that was a crazy statement to make, but I think, once 25 00:01:22,433 --> 00:01:27,433 the trial did play out and the witnesses did testify, I think that became a little more 26 00:01:28,566 --> 00:01:30,633 clearer -- a little more clear, I should say. 27 00:01:30,633 --> 00:01:35,633 But, in this case, the pressure, I think, on the jury made them look at this case and 28 00:01:37,633 --> 00:01:41,800 not worry about the lack of evidence, and they worried more about the court of public 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,900 opinion. 30 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:46,600 And what I found most interesting was, as the jurors were walking out, they didn't look 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,266 at Harvey, they didn't look at the prosecutors. They looked at the press. And that really 32 00:01:50,266 --> 00:01:54,800 told me a lot. I think they were concerned about coming back with a finding of not guilty 33 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,833 on all counts. 34 00:01:56,833 --> 00:02:00,766 I do think that the sort of split verdict shows us that there was definitely some doubt 35 00:02:01,366 --> 00:02:03,366 back there. 36 00:02:03,366 --> 00:02:05,933 AMNA NAWAZ: Well, there was a lot of attention paid. You're right about that. 37 00:02:05,933 --> 00:02:08,433 I want to ask you about some of the reports that came out midtrial, because you were criticized 38 00:02:08,433 --> 00:02:11,366 about the way that you were questioning some of those witnesses. People said that you went 39 00:02:11,366 --> 00:02:16,033 very, very hard, in particular after Jessica Mann. At one point, she was crying so hard, 40 00:02:16,033 --> 00:02:18,100 the proceedings in the courtroom had to stop. 41 00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:21,600 You were questioning really about why she continued to be in touch with Mr. Weinstein 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,000 even after the rape, asking him for professional help and staying in touch with him. 43 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,433 Why did you think that was an important line of questioning? How did that help your defense? 44 00:02:29,433 --> 00:02:32,466 DONNA ROTUNNO: Well, I don't know how it is not important. 45 00:02:32,466 --> 00:02:37,433 Of course, none of us know what happened -- what happens in those rooms. And we have no idea. 46 00:02:37,433 --> 00:02:40,366 We're not there. I'm not there. You're not there, the judge, the jury. 47 00:02:40,366 --> 00:02:45,166 But what we do know is every piece of evidence that we had documented after the fact. And 48 00:02:45,166 --> 00:02:50,166 so to not look at the totality of the circumstances to determine what really took place in that 49 00:02:51,766 --> 00:02:54,366 room seems remiss. 50 00:02:54,366 --> 00:02:59,000 And, you know, as a criminal defense attorney, I go into court, and I have to defend my client. 51 00:03:01,566 --> 00:03:04,133 I have to ask questions that have not been asked. I have to ask questions that are difficult. 52 00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:06,633 I have to present evidence that wasn't presented. 53 00:03:06,633 --> 00:03:11,633 And when you look at how these cases get to the point of going to trial, there's a grand 54 00:03:11,633 --> 00:03:13,666 jury process. 55 00:03:13,666 --> 00:03:16,666 And when the prosecutors brought Jessica Mann before the grand jury, she didn't tell those 56 00:03:16,666 --> 00:03:21,666 grand jurors that she had had sexual relations with him after the fact that were consensual 57 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:25,500 in 2016. She didn't tell the grand jury about the e-mail communications. 58 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:29,633 So, you know, they told this story in a vacuum. And the first time we were really able to 59 00:03:29,633 --> 00:03:33,933 bring the full picture to light was the trial. And, at that point, so much had already been 60 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:36,700 written on it, it was almost as if it was an afterthought. 61 00:03:36,700 --> 00:03:40,666 AMNA NAWAZ: Donna, you mentioned the things that we know. We also know, statistically, 62 00:03:40,666 --> 00:03:44,800 that most sexual assault survivors know their attacker in some way. We also know that you 63 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,466 can have a consensual sexual relationship with someone and still be raped by them. 64 00:03:49,466 --> 00:03:53,633 What is, do you think, the appropriate level of contact between someone like Jessica Mann 65 00:03:53,633 --> 00:03:55,766 and Mr. Weinstein? 66 00:03:55,766 --> 00:03:58,900 DONNA ROTUNNO: Well, I don't know who can say what's appropriate and what isn't appropriate. 67 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:03,800 But we have a five-year period of communication that continued after the fact. And this is 68 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,200 not something where -- you know, we talk about domestic abuse situations, which don't equate 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,066 in any way to this. That's someone who lives in a home with somebody, that maybe has children 70 00:04:13,066 --> 00:04:16,233 with somebody, that may be financially dependent on somebody. 71 00:04:16,233 --> 00:04:20,666 That's not the case here. Jessica Mann, you know, benefited from Mr. Weinstein in certain 72 00:04:20,666 --> 00:04:25,666 ways, but definitely not in ways that affected her ability to live a life or have a job. 73 00:04:27,566 --> 00:04:32,233 You know, she asked him for help in multiple different avenues, whether it was, help me 74 00:04:33,833 --> 00:04:38,333 get a job or help me get into a private club or help me with my car. 75 00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,166 And so, you know, the continued contact, seeking out, the way she spoke about him to other 76 00:04:46,166 --> 00:04:50,333 people, the way she spoke about him to therapists, the way she defended him to her boyfriend, 77 00:04:50,333 --> 00:04:55,033 this wasn't incidental contact that someone has because they feel like they need to maintain 78 00:04:55,033 --> 00:04:58,133 a decent relationship. This far surpassed that. 79 00:04:58,133 --> 00:05:01,366 AMNA NAWAZ: Donna, related to the trial, but not directly, you got a lot of attention for 80 00:05:01,366 --> 00:05:04,200 an interview you gave to Megan Twohey of The New York Times. 81 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,200 It was about the case, but -- and about the trial, but then she ended the interview by 82 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,400 asking you if you had ever been a victim of sexual assault. And you said, "No, I have 83 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,400 not." 84 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,133 And then you said -- quote -- "Because I would never put myself in that position." 85 00:05:16,133 --> 00:05:20,666 I have to ask you, do you believe that these women, who a jury now decided were raped and 86 00:05:20,666 --> 00:05:25,666 assaulted by Harvey Weinstein, put themselves in a situation for that to happen? 87 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:30,800 DONNA ROTUNNO: Well, I have to say, that question was asked to me solely. That question wasn't 88 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,833 asked to me about other people. It wasn't a commentary on anyone else. It wasn't a commentary 89 00:05:35,833 --> 00:05:39,100 on, you know, specific victims in any way. 90 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:43,400 So, that was a question asked to me. And, you know, for me, I would rather fight to 91 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,666 my death than be put in a circumstance where somebody was going to sexually assault me. 92 00:05:47,666 --> 00:05:52,666 But that's my -- that's an answer from me, you know, having nothing to do with anyone 93 00:05:53,133 --> 00:05:55,100 else. 94 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:57,133 AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask you about what Manhattan district attorney Cy Vance said. 95 00:05:57,133 --> 00:05:59,433 He did say that, today, in this day and age, things are different when it comes to how 96 00:05:59,433 --> 00:06:03,933 the court views some of these allegations of sexual crimes, that things have changed 97 00:06:03,933 --> 00:06:06,333 in some way over the last three or four years. 98 00:06:06,333 --> 00:06:09,733 Do you believe that this verdict today -- and I ask you because you have defended a number 99 00:06:09,733 --> 00:06:14,066 of people who are accused of sexual misconduct over the years -- do you believe this verdict 100 00:06:14,066 --> 00:06:17,566 changes how sex crimes are viewed and handled in our legal system? 101 00:06:17,566 --> 00:06:22,566 DONNA ROTUNNO: I hope not. I hope not, because, if we don't look at individual cases on their 102 00:06:25,033 --> 00:06:28,100 merits, and we don't look at evidence particular to a specific defendant and a specific case, 103 00:06:30,533 --> 00:06:32,700 and we start putting things under some umbrella of the way we should do things, I think that 104 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:37,200 would be scary for you, scary for me, and scary for anyone charged with a crime in this 105 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,266 country. 106 00:06:39,266 --> 00:06:41,600 AMNA NAWAZ: At the same time, we also know that allegations of rape and sexual crimes, 107 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,766 they are vastly underreported and very difficult to prove in a court of law. 108 00:06:45,766 --> 00:06:49,100 Don't you believe there should be some weight given to the credibility of women when they 109 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:51,266 come forward with these allegations? 110 00:06:51,266 --> 00:06:54,233 DONNA ROTUNNO: Well, you know, you have -- we have a presumption of independence in our 111 00:06:54,233 --> 00:06:56,333 country. 112 00:06:56,333 --> 00:06:58,966 And the presumption of innocence is that someone charged with a crime has the right to be viewed 113 00:06:58,966 --> 00:07:03,300 as an innocent person. There is not a presumption that someone is telling the truth. 114 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:08,266 So, I think that to say that we should just walk into a courtroom, let someone tell their 115 00:07:08,266 --> 00:07:13,266 story or their version of the events, without questioning that version, puts us all in jeopardy. 116 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,600 I don't think that we should be able to give more credibility -- credibility to someone 117 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,066 just because they say that they were sexually assaulted. 118 00:07:22,066 --> 00:07:26,433 And I will always refer back to the Duke lacrosse team. And if we did that in that case, you 119 00:07:26,433 --> 00:07:31,333 would have that whole entire group of young men at the time sitting in the penitentiary. 120 00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:33,933 So, I think we have to be very careful. It's a slippery slope. 121 00:07:33,933 --> 00:07:37,300 AMNA NAWAZ: Donna Rotunno, defense attorney for Harvey Weinstein, joining us from New 122 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:39,033 York, thank you for being with us. 123 00:07:39,033 --> 00:07:44,033 DONNA ROTUNNO: I appreciate it. Thank you.