>> Sreenivasan: THIS WEEK MARKED
THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE
ONGOING EBOLA OUTBREAK IN THE
CONGO.
SO FAR, MORE THAN 2,600 CASES
HAVE BEEN REPORTED AND 1,700
DEATHS.
I RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH RICHARD
PRESTON.
HIS LATEST BOOK, "CRISIS IN THE
RED ZONE," REPORTS ON THE EBOLA
EPIDEMIC AND HOW OUR
INTERCONNECTED WORLD IS MAKING
IT DIFFICULT TO CONTAIN.
>> WELL, IT'S REALLY BECAUSE OF
MOTHER NATURE.
EBOLA IS A KIND OF WARNING SHOT
ACROSS OUR BOW.
IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT ARE
KNOWN AS EMERGING VIRUSES, WHICH
ARE VIRUSES THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY
LEAKING OUT OF THE TROUBLED
ECOSYSTEMS OF THE PLANET AND
GETTING INTO HUMANS.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY IMMUNITY TO
THESE EMERGING VIRUSES.
SO, THEY CAN BE EXTREMELY
DEADLY, HIGHLY INFECTIOUS, AND
WE REALLY DON'T HAVE GOOD
MEDICAL DEFENSES AGAINST THEM.
>> Sreenivasan: WHERE DO THEY
START FROM?
>> WELL, THEY START FROM
ANIMALS, WILD ANIMALS,
TYPICALLY.
NOW, A VIRUS IS A TINY PARASITE
THAT NEEDS TO HAVE A HOST.
IT CAN ONLY MAKE COPIES OF
ITSELF INSIDE THE CELLS OF SOME
HOST.
AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST POTENTIAL
HOSTS ON THE PLANET RIGHT NOW IS
THE HUMAN SPECIES.
WE ARE-- THERE ARE 7.5 BILLION
OF US, AND, INCREASINGLY IN
HISTORY, HUMANS ARE GATHERING
INTO THESE GIGANTIC URBAN
MEGALOPOLISES, SUPERCITIES.
TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, NEW YORK
SUPERCITY, WHERE WE ARE, IS
ABOUT 20 MILLION PEOPLE.
NOW, THAT'S ABOUT THE POPULATION
OF FLORIDA.
SO, IF YOU TAKE EVERYBODY IN
FLORIDA AND YOU CRAM THEM INTO
ONE CITY, AND EVERYBODY IS
BREATHING ONE ANOTHER'S AIR AND
TOUCHING ONE ANOTHER, AND IF AN
EMERGING VIRUS FROM A
RAINFOREST ORGANISM GETS INTO A
HUMAN POPULATION LIKE THAT, AND
THERE'S NO IMMUNITY TO THE
THING, AND IT'S EXTREMELY
INFECTIOUS AND HAS A HIGH
MORTALITY RATE, THEN WHAT YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE IS AN IMMENSE
CHALLENGE TO THE MEDICAL SYSTEM
AND TO EVERYTHING.
>> Sreenivasan: THE GOOD NEWS
ABOUT EBOLA IS THAT THERE SEEMS
TO BE A VACCINE THAT IS WORKING
AND IS PRETTY EFFECTIVE.
WHY CAN'T WE GET THAT VACCINE TO
ALL OF THESE PLACES THAT ARE
HAVING THESE OUTBREAKS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S CRAZY.
SO, THERE'S THIS BIG OUTBREAK OF
EBOLA GOING ON IN EASTERN CONGO
RIGHT NOW, AND 160,000 OR MORE
VACCINATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE.
PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE VACCINE,
BUT THE VIRUS CONTINUES TO
SPREAD.
AND THE DOCTORS AND MEDICAL
WORKERS CAN'T TRACE THE CASES.
A LOT OF THE CASES THAT ARE
COMING UP ARE BRAND NEW.
EBOLA HAS BEEN IN THE HUMAN
POPULATION OF EASTERN CONGO NOW
FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, AND I
THINK THERE'S A QUESTION-- SO,
THE VACCINATION STRATEGY JUST
ISN'T WORKING EVEN THOUGH IT'S A
GREAT VACCINE.
BUT EBOLA IS SEEMINGLY MORE AND
MORE ROOTED IN THE HUMAN
POPULATION.
AND I THINK THERE IS A QUESTION
AS TO WHETHER EBOLA COULD
CHANGE AND EVENTUALLY BECOME
ESTABLISHED AS A PERMANENT HUMAN
DISEASE.
>> Sreenivasan: WOW.
WHAT-- THAT'S STARTLING.
WHAT ARE THE SORT OF CULTURAL
IMPEDIMENTS NOW TO TRYING TO
TREAT EBOLA?
I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S CIVIL WARS
OR WHETHER IT'S SOCIAL MEDIA,
WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT
WE'RE FACING IN TRYING TO GET A
POPULATION ARMED WITH THE
INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO SAY,
"HERE'S WHAT YOU SHOULD DO,
HERE'S WHAT YOU SHOULD LOOK FOR,
HERE'S WHERE YOU SHOULD GO"?
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE AMERICAN
POPULATION.
LET'S TALK ABOUT NEW YORK CITY
BECAUSE THE PROBLEM OF EDUCATION
IS JUST AS DEEP HERE IN NEW YORK
AS IT IS ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE
PLANET.
SO, I DID A LITTLE SURVEY, AND I
FOUND OUT THAT IN THE NEW YORK
CITY HOSPITALS, THERE ARE A
TOTAL OF EIGHT SO-CALLED "RED
ZONE BEDS" FOR PATIENTS WHO ARE
INFECTED WITH A HIGHLY
INFECTIOUS, LETHAL VIRUS FOR
WHICH THERE IS NO CURE AND NO
VACCINE.
ONLY EIGHT BEDS.
AND THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH TRAINED
HOSPITAL PERSONNEL TO HANDLE
MORE THAN ABOUT EIGHT PATIENTS.
WHEN THERE WAS ONE PATIENT WITH
EBOLA AT BELLEVUE HOSPITAL IN
NEW YORK CITY, THERE WAS A HUGE
TEAM THAT TREATED THE
INDIVIDUAL.
THEY SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
SAVING THAT PATIENT'S LIFE.
NOW, WHAT IF AN EMERGING VIRUS--
I'M NOT NECESSARILY TALKING
ABOUT EBOLA, BUT SOMETHING
EBOLA-LIKE, AND THERE ARE MANY
OTHER KINDS OF VIRUSES THAT ARE
OUT THERE LURKING IN NATURE THAT
ARE MAKING THESE SO-CALLED
"CROSS-SPECIES JUMPS."
THEY'RE COMING OUT OF ECOSYSTEMS
AND GETTING INTO HUMANITY.
SO, WHAT IF WE HAD 1,000
PATIENTS IN NEW YORK CITY WITH A
REALLY HOT VIRUS?
WHAT IF WE HAD 10,000 PATIENTS?
WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN A CITY
LIKE NEW YORK IN THE DEVELOPED
WORLD IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED
IN, YOU KNOW, CITIES IN WEST
AFRICA WHEN EBOLA GOT INTO THEM.
YOU WOULD SEE MEDICAL PERSONNEL
RISKING THEIR LIVES AND
SACRIFICING THEIR LIVES, A THIN
LINE OF DEFENSE.
THE MEDICAL PEOPLE, THE DOCTORS,
THE NURSES, WOULD REALLY BE
DYING.
THEY WOULD BE GOING INTO
HORRIFIC CONDITIONS TO TRY TO
SAVE PATIENTS, JUST AS WAS DONE
IN AFRICA.
AND THEN, YOU WOULD HAVE-- YOU
CAN JUST IMAGINE THE
POSSIBILITIES.
IN A WAY, THEY'RE SORT OF HARD
TO IMAGINE.
BUT YOU WOULD HAVE PEOPLE TRYING
TO LEAVE THE CITY IN LARGE
NUMBERS.
YOU WOULD HAVE PEOPLE FLEEING
FROM HOSPITALS, AS HAPPENED IN
AFRICA.
NOBODY WOULD WANT TO GO TO THE
HOSPITALS BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE
HOT.
AND, SO, PEOPLE WOULD BE DYING
IN APARTMENTS.
AND THE WAY IT WORKS IN NEW YORK
CITY IS THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
HAS SPECIAL HAZ-TAG TEAMS THAT
ARE TRAINED TO GO IN AND BRING
OUT A BIOHAZARDOUS PATIENT OR A
BIOHAZARDOUS CORPSE AND DELIVER
IT PROPERLY.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ABOUT THE
MISEDUCATION, THE RUMORS, THE
CONSPIRACIES THAT KIND OF IMPEDE
THAT EDUCATION FOR THE REST OF
US, THE CONSUMER CLASS?
AND WE'RE WE'RE SEEING THESE
CHALLENGES ON MUCH MORE BASIC
VACCINATIONS TOWARDS CHILDREN.
BUT WHEN YOU ADD THAT LAYER OF
FEAR, THAT "OH, MY GOSH, THIS IS
A DEADLY VIRUS, IT'S AFFECTING
ADULTS OF ALL TYPES AND SHAPES
AND SIZES," IT CAN BE WORSE.
>> YES, IT IS.
AND, UNFORTUNATELY, SOCIAL MEDIA
HAS PLAYED A-- I THINK A VERY
DAMAGING ROLE IN THESE
SITUATIONS.
JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE: IN
THE CONGO OUTBREAK OF EBOLA,
WHICH IS GOING ON NOW, PEOPLE
THERE ARE VERY WELL-EDUCATED
PEOPLE.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE
INTERNET.
THEY READ "LA MONDE," THE MEDIA
FROM PARIS, AND THEY USE A LOT
OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
AND A LOT OF RUMORS GO AROUND ON
SOCIAL MEDIA THAT ARE NOT
CORRECT ABOUT HOW YOU CAN
PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST EBOLA,
OR, YOU KNOW, PARANOID RUMORS
ABOUT THE DOCTORS THAT ARE
TREATING EBOLA.
AND I FEAR OR SUSPECT THAT THE
SAME THING WOULD BE GOING ON IN
THE UNITED STATES IF A
BIO-SAFETY LEVEL-FOUR HOT VIRUS
GOT GOING IN THE POPULATION.
>> Sreenivasan: THE FRONTLINE
PHYSICIANS AND AID WORKERS THAT
ARE IN THE FIELD, OFTENTIMES--
ESPECIALLY IN AREAS LIKE
AFRICA-- THE NARRATIVE IS THAT,
WELL, THE AMERICANS OR THE
EUROPEANS COME IN AND THEY'RE
SAVING ALL THE AFRICANS.
BUT REALLY, IN YOUR BOOKS, WHAT
YOU'RE SHOWING ALSO IS THAT IT'S
AFRICAN DOCTORS THAT ARE DOING
THE HARD, HORRIBLE WORK, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS CLICHE
THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE FROM
THE DEVELOPED WORLD, THE WHITE
PEOPLE, COME INTO AFRICA AND
THEY SAVE HAPLESS AFRICANS.
BUT "CRISIS IN THE RED ZONE" IS
ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
I TAKE A MAGNIFYING CLASS, AND I
PUT IT ON A SMALL, FORGOTTEN
HOSPITAL IN AFRICA THAT WAS
DEVASTATED BY EBOLA.
AND IN THAT HOSPITAL, YOU HAD
AMERICAN DOCTORS AND MEDICAL
PEOPLE, SCIENTISTS AND AFRICAN
SCIENTISTS, DOCTORS AND MEDICAL
PEOPLE FIGHTING THIS DREADFUL
VIRUS IN THE HOSPITAL, WHICH
KILLED A LOT OF THE STAFF.
THEY WERE PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON
THE LINE, OFTEN SACRIFICING
THEIR LIVES, GOING INTO
SITUATIONS WHERE THEY KNEW THEY
WERE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE, IN
AN EFFORT TO SAVE A PATIENT'S
LIFE.
>> Sreenivasan: IS THERE A
LESSON WE CAN LEARN FROM WHAT
HAPPENS?
I MEAN, SOME OF THE ETHICAL
DILEMMAS AND CHALLENGES?
IF YOU'VE GOT A VACCINE, DO YOU
SAVE A DOCTOR?
DO YOU SAVE A PATIENT?
>> IN THE FACE OF A CRISIS, THE
MEDICAL PEOPLE AT THIS LITTLE
HOSPITAL FACED TERRIBLE ETHICAL
CHOICES, CHOICES THAT NO DOCTOR
SHOULD EVER HAVE TO MAKE;
CHOICES IN WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE
HIPPOCRATIC OATH SAYS, "FIRST,
DO NO HARM," BUT THESE WERE
CHOICES WHERE THE DOCTORS, NO
MATTER WHAT THEY DID, THEY WERE
GOING TO CAUSE HARM, AND IT WAS
A LIFE-OR-DEATH CRISIS.
>> Sreenivasan: RICHARD
PRESTON IS THE AUTHOR.
THE BOOK IS CALLED "CRISIS IN
THE RED ZONE."
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.