>> Sreenivasan: JOINING ME NOW

IS THE PRESIDENT AND C.E.O. OF

THE NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE AND

FORMER MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS MARC

MORIAL.

MARC, WE'RE JUST A COUPLE OF

WEEKS AFTER GEORGE FLOYD, AFTER

ATLANTA SAW THE PROTESTS, THE

RESPONSE.

AND HERE WE ARE, ANOTHER USE OF

DEADLY FORCE VIDEO THAT SHOWS

UP.

WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PAIN, A

LOT OF HURT, A LOT OF "HOW CAN

THIS HAPPEN AGAIN?" IS MY

IMMEDIATE RESPONSE, BUT SECOND

TO THAT, IT UNDERSCORES WHY WE

NEED A RE-IMAGINATION, A

RESTRUCTURING AND A NEW

ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM FOR

AMERICAN POLICING.

AMERICAN POLICING IS, FOR THE

MOST PART, BROKEN.

PEOPLE CAN PICK THE WORD THEY

WANT, BUT, UH, WE NEED CHANGES

AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, AND WE

NEED NEW INITIATIVES AND NEW

WAYS OF DOING BUSINESS AT THE

LOCAL LEVEL.

THIS IS NOT WHERE ONE SWEEPING

FEDERAL BILL WILL FIX THIS

PROBLEM, BUT A SWEEPING FEDERAL

BILL IS ESSENTIAL TO ADDRESS

MANY OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY

CHALLENGES.

AND THAT'S WHY THE "JUSTICE IN

POLICING ACT" IS SOMETHING WE

STRONGLY SUPPORT.

INTRODUCED THIS PAST WEEK IN THE

CONGRESS.

AND I'M NOT, I DON'T HAVE AN

APPETITE FOR A WATERED-DOWN

VERSION.

I DON'T HAVE AN APPETITE FOR A

SYMBOLIC BILL.

I THINK WE'VE GOT TO HEAR THE

PAIN, THE CRIES AND THE

DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN

PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE,

ALL RACES AND BACKGROUNDS, WHO

ARE ON THE STREETS SAYING BLACK

LIVES MATTER.

>> Sreenivasan: THIS IS

CERTAINLY NOT IN THE SAME VEIN

AS GEORGE FLOYD.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT

CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH ARE GONNA

LEAD A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SAY,

"HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I SAW THE WENDY'S PARKING LOT

SURVEILLANCE FOOTAGE, AND THIS

GENTLEMAN TURNED AROUND AND HE

POINTED A TASER.

THIS IS DIFFERENT.

THE POLICE OFFICER FELT THAT

THEIR LIFE WAS THREATENED, THAT

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO

PROTECT THEMSELVES."

>> YEAH, POLICE OFFICERS ARE

TRAINED AND TAUGHT THAT THE

TASER IS A NON-LETHAL WEAPON.

AND THE OFFICERS HAD SEARCHED,

UH, THE GENTLEMAN AT-- WHEN HE

WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE CAR TO

DETERMINE, BECAUSE THEY ASKED

HIM, "ARE YOU ARMED?"

AND THEY DETERMINED THAT HE WAS

NOT ARMED.

SO, FOR HIM TO TURN AROUND AND

SHOOT A TASER AT THE OFFICER DID

NOT CONSTITUTE A THREAT TO THE

OFFICER'S LIFE OR A THREAT TO

ANOTHER OFFICER'S LIFE.

PERHAPS THE OFFICER WAS AMPED UP

BECAUSE THIS MAN HAD TAKEN THE

TASER AWAY FROM HIM AND BEGAN TO

FLEE.

SO, YEAH, OFFICERS MAKE SPLIT

SECOND DECISIONS, BUT AT NO

INSTANCE WAS ANYONE'S LIFE

THREATENED AND FORCE IS ONLY,

ONLY, I THINK NECESSARY IF THE

OFFICER'S LIFE IS TRULY

THREATENED OR, NUMBER TWO, IF

THE LIFE OF THE CITIZEN, OF

SOMEONE ELSE, IS THREATENED.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT COULD THEY

HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?

>> WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT

DEESCALATION.

THEN WE HAVE TO RETHINK, AND

THIS IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT, HOW WE

HANDLE VARIOUS TYPES OF

INCIDENTS, WHETHER IT'S WITH

HOMELESSNESS, WHETHER IT'S

PEOPLE ON THE STREET WHO MAY

HAVE MENTAL ISSUES, IF THOSE ARE

APPROPRIATE THINGS FOR THE

POLICE TO RESPOND TO.

POLICE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO

THINGS FAR BEYOND THE

TRADITIONAL WORLD OF PUBLIC

SAFETY IN POLICING AND THE

RE-IMAGINATION MOVEMENT OR THE

RE-IMAGINATION AND RESTRUCTURING

MOVEMENT I THINK, RIGHTFULLY,

HAS TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THESE

CLASSES OF OFFENSES DIFFERENTLY.

SOME OF THEM ARE NOT TRULY

CRIMINAL OFFENSES.

AND SO, WE'VE GOT TO RETHINK

THIS.

AND THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT

AND HE COULD HAVE NOT USED HIS

GUN.

LOOK, HOW FAR WAS THAT GENTLEMAN

GOING TO RUN?

>> Sreenivasan: WE'VE ALSO SEEN

IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IS A

CLOSING OF THE RANKS BY

DIFFERENT POLICE AGENCIES.

IN BUFFALO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAD

ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE EMERGENCY

RESPONSE TEAM RESIGN FROM THAT

UNIT, BUT NOT FROM THE POLICE

DEPARTMENT, IN SOLIDARITY WITH

THE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE

REPRIMANDED FOR PUSHING DOWN AN

OLD MAN.

IN FLORIDA YOU HAD ANOTHER CASE

RECENTLY OF MEMBERS RESIGNING

FROM THE SWAT TEAM BECAUSE THEY

FEEL THEIR ACTIONS ARE NOW BEING

POLITICIZED AND THEY DON'T FEEL

LIKE THEY CAN DO THEIR JOBS AS

WITH THE FORCE THAT MIGHT BE

NECESSARY IF, MYSELF INCLUDED,

IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE

CONVERSATIONS LOOKING OVER THEIR

SHOULDER ON SUNDAY MORNING.

>> IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PUBLIC

AND THE PEOPLE TO LOOK OVER THE

SHOULDERS OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS

AND PUBLIC SERVANTS.

IT IS.

NO ONE SHOULD BE IMMUNE FROM

THAT.

NOT THE POLICE OFFICER, NOT THE

FIREFIGHTER, NOT THE TAX

COLLECTOR, NOT THE DIRECTOR OF

BUILDING PERMITS.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD OFFER

THE POLICE OFFICER SOME SORT OF

EXALTED POSITION IN AMERICAN

LIFE WHERE THEY HAVE SUPER DUPER

PROTECTIONS, SUPER INSULATIONS,

AND THAT'S BEEN PART OF THE

CULTURE.

THOSE OFFICERS, IF THEY DO NOT

HAVE CONFIDENCE, SHOULD NOT HAVE

RESIGNED FROM THE SWAT TEAM OR

RESIGNED FROM THE UNIT.

THEY SHOULD RESIGN FROM THE

FORCE.

IF OFFICERS CAN'T TAKE THIS

TRIP, IF THEY CAN'T MOVE IN THE

DIRECTION THAT I BELIEVE

AMERICAN POLICING IS GONNA MOVE,

THEN I THINK THEY SHOULD RESIGN

AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO GO

DO.

WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE

HIRING PROCESS.

WE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE

TRAINING PROCESS.

AND WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE

SCOPE IN THE CHARGE OF, UH,

POLICING AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

AND I THINK TOO WHAT'S IMPLICIT

IN THIS AND, AND I STRONGLY

SUPPORT, THE INVESTMENTS WE NEED

TO MAKE IN YOUTH AND SOCIAL

SERVICES IN SCHOOLS.

A RESPONSE TO EVERY SINGLE

PROBLEM CAN'T BE "LET'S PUT MORE

POLICE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD."

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE SMART

POLICING, PROGRESSIVE POLICING,

COMMUNITY POLICING, A STRATEGY

AROUND PUBLIC SAFETY, BUT IT

INCLUDES SO MANY OTHER THINGS.

AND THAT'S THE DEBATE, I THINK,

AND THE DISCUSSION THAT WE NEED

TO HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES

TODAY.

>> Sreenivasan: ONE OF THE

CENTRAL TENETS TO ME IS,

REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH MONEY YOU

POUR IN TO POLICE RETRAINING,

IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING,

DEESCALATION TRAINING AND SO

FORTH, HOW DO YOU SWITCH A

CULTURE THAT VALUES, AND

SOMETIMES RIGHTFULLY, LOYALTY?

THAT THEY SAY, "HEY, I NEED TO

KNOW THAT YOU HAVE MY BACK, THAT

IF WE GO INTO A DANGEROUS

SITUATION, I CAN COUNT ON YOU."

AND THAT ENDS UP CREATING A

SCENARIO WHERE GOOD POLICE ARE

STANDING BY WHEN SOMETHING BAD

HAPPENS BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE

"IF I TURN ON MY BROTHER OR

SISTER NOW, THEY MIGHT NOT BE

THERE FOR ME WHEN I REALLY NEED

THEM."

>> EVEN IN THAT INSTANCE,

THERE'S A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE

TO DRAW A LINE.

AND A LINE INVOLVES NOT LYING,

NOT COVERING UP, NOT LOOKING THE

OTHER WAY WHEN YOU KNOW A

PARTNER OF YOURS, OR A COWORKER,

HAS DONE SOMETHING THAT'S

OBVIOUSLY WRONG.

CORRUPTION MEANS THAT WRONGDOING

IS UNCHECKED, THAT WRONGDOING

BECOMES THE CULTURE.

SO, PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND

THAT THERE ARE LINES TO BE DRAWN

IN EVERY SINGLE INSTITUTION.

WE HAVE TO RETHINK, AND WE HAVE

TO REFORM, AND WE HAVE TO

RESTRUCTURE.

AND, LOOK, I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE

CAN GET SOMETHING THAT PROTECTS

THE PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, RESPECTS

CITIZENS AND CREATES NEW

CONFIDENCE, BUT THESE REFORMS

ARE NOT GONNA BE ABLE OPERATE

AROUND THE EDGES IN MOST

DEPARTMENTS, BECAUSE IT'S

CENTRAL TO WHAT WE NEED IN

AMERICAN COMMUNITIES TODAY.

AND, LOOK, I THINK THAT POLICE

HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO TOO MANY

THINGS.

WELL, WE NEED TO TALK TO

COMMUNITIES AND SAY "WHAT TYPE

OF SITUATIONS SHOULD BE HANDLED

BY MAYBE ANOTHER UNIT OR ANOTHER

DEPARTMENT OR ANOTHER INSTRUMENT

OR INSTRUMENTALITY OF

GOVERNMENT?"

AND I THINK THOSE ARE THE KIND

OF CONVERSATIONS THAT

COMMUNITIES HAVE TO HAVE IN A

RE-IMAGINATION.

LOOK, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE

SHOULD UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER

OF THIS MOVEMENT THAT WE SEE

MANIFESTED IN THE STREETS.

IT'S TOUCHED THE BOARDROOMS OF

AMERICA.

IT'S TOUCHED THE LEGISLATIVE

BODIES OF AMERICA.

AND YET, IT'S PROBABLY A SEGMENT

OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION WHICH

IS KICKING AND SCREAMING AND

DOESN'T SUPPORT IT.

BUT MY SENSE IS THAT THIS IS A

MOVEMENT UNLIKE ANY I'VE SEEN IN

MY, IN MY ADULT LIFE TO UNDO

RACISM, TO RESTRUCTURE THE

SOCIETY.

IT'S NOT A BLACK MOVEMENT, IT'S

NOT A WHITE MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT A

LATINO MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT AN

ASIAN MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT A--

IT'S NOT A MOVEMENT OF YOUNG

VERSUS OLD.

IT'S BEING PROPELLED BY THE

YOUNG, BUT IT IS A MOVEMENT

AGAINST RACISM AND A MOVEMENT

AGAINST DIVISION AND INTOLERANCE

IN THIS COUNTRY, AND SO WE HAVE

A CHANCE.

IN THE SHORT RUN I WANT TO SEE

CONGRESS PASS THE "JUSTICE IN

POLICING ACT."

I TESTIFIED BEFORE THE HOUSE

JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

IT'S THE KIND OF REFORM MEASURE

CONGRESS SHOULD PASS.

IT'S NOT GONNA FIX OR DO ALL THE

THINGS WE DISCUSSED, BUT

CONGRESS HAS TO PUT ITS STAMP,

IT'S STAMP ON THIS ISSUE BY

SAYING WE REALIZE WE NEED TO

TAKE A GIANT LEAP FORWARD WHEN

IT COMES TO AMERICAN POLICING IN

TERMS OF CREATING

ACCOUNTABILITIES

RESPONSIBILITIES AND SYSTEMS

THAT WILL ASSIST LOCAL

COMMUNITIES IN DOING WHAT THEY

NEED TO DO.

>> Sreenivasan: MARC MORIAL, THE

URBAN LEAGUE.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.