>> Sreenivasan: JOINING ME NOW
IS THE PRESIDENT AND C.E.O. OF
THE NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE AND
FORMER MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS MARC
MORIAL.
MARC, WE'RE JUST A COUPLE OF
WEEKS AFTER GEORGE FLOYD, AFTER
ATLANTA SAW THE PROTESTS, THE
RESPONSE.
AND HERE WE ARE, ANOTHER USE OF
DEADLY FORCE VIDEO THAT SHOWS
UP.
WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND?
>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PAIN, A
LOT OF HURT, A LOT OF "HOW CAN
THIS HAPPEN AGAIN?" IS MY
IMMEDIATE RESPONSE, BUT SECOND
TO THAT, IT UNDERSCORES WHY WE
NEED A RE-IMAGINATION, A
RESTRUCTURING AND A NEW
ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM FOR
AMERICAN POLICING.
AMERICAN POLICING IS, FOR THE
MOST PART, BROKEN.
PEOPLE CAN PICK THE WORD THEY
WANT, BUT, UH, WE NEED CHANGES
AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, AND WE
NEED NEW INITIATIVES AND NEW
WAYS OF DOING BUSINESS AT THE
LOCAL LEVEL.
THIS IS NOT WHERE ONE SWEEPING
FEDERAL BILL WILL FIX THIS
PROBLEM, BUT A SWEEPING FEDERAL
BILL IS ESSENTIAL TO ADDRESS
MANY OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY
CHALLENGES.
AND THAT'S WHY THE "JUSTICE IN
POLICING ACT" IS SOMETHING WE
STRONGLY SUPPORT.
INTRODUCED THIS PAST WEEK IN THE
CONGRESS.
AND I'M NOT, I DON'T HAVE AN
APPETITE FOR A WATERED-DOWN
VERSION.
I DON'T HAVE AN APPETITE FOR A
SYMBOLIC BILL.
I THINK WE'VE GOT TO HEAR THE
PAIN, THE CRIES AND THE
DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE,
ALL RACES AND BACKGROUNDS, WHO
ARE ON THE STREETS SAYING BLACK
LIVES MATTER.
>> Sreenivasan: THIS IS
CERTAINLY NOT IN THE SAME VEIN
AS GEORGE FLOYD.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT
CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH ARE GONNA
LEAD A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SAY,
"HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
I SAW THE WENDY'S PARKING LOT
SURVEILLANCE FOOTAGE, AND THIS
GENTLEMAN TURNED AROUND AND HE
POINTED A TASER.
THIS IS DIFFERENT.
THE POLICE OFFICER FELT THAT
THEIR LIFE WAS THREATENED, THAT
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
PROTECT THEMSELVES."
>> YEAH, POLICE OFFICERS ARE
TRAINED AND TAUGHT THAT THE
TASER IS A NON-LETHAL WEAPON.
AND THE OFFICERS HAD SEARCHED,
UH, THE GENTLEMAN AT-- WHEN HE
WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE CAR TO
DETERMINE, BECAUSE THEY ASKED
HIM, "ARE YOU ARMED?"
AND THEY DETERMINED THAT HE WAS
NOT ARMED.
SO, FOR HIM TO TURN AROUND AND
SHOOT A TASER AT THE OFFICER DID
NOT CONSTITUTE A THREAT TO THE
OFFICER'S LIFE OR A THREAT TO
ANOTHER OFFICER'S LIFE.
PERHAPS THE OFFICER WAS AMPED UP
BECAUSE THIS MAN HAD TAKEN THE
TASER AWAY FROM HIM AND BEGAN TO
FLEE.
SO, YEAH, OFFICERS MAKE SPLIT
SECOND DECISIONS, BUT AT NO
INSTANCE WAS ANYONE'S LIFE
THREATENED AND FORCE IS ONLY,
ONLY, I THINK NECESSARY IF THE
OFFICER'S LIFE IS TRULY
THREATENED OR, NUMBER TWO, IF
THE LIFE OF THE CITIZEN, OF
SOMEONE ELSE, IS THREATENED.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT COULD THEY
HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?
>> WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT
DEESCALATION.
THEN WE HAVE TO RETHINK, AND
THIS IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT, HOW WE
HANDLE VARIOUS TYPES OF
INCIDENTS, WHETHER IT'S WITH
HOMELESSNESS, WHETHER IT'S
PEOPLE ON THE STREET WHO MAY
HAVE MENTAL ISSUES, IF THOSE ARE
APPROPRIATE THINGS FOR THE
POLICE TO RESPOND TO.
POLICE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO
THINGS FAR BEYOND THE
TRADITIONAL WORLD OF PUBLIC
SAFETY IN POLICING AND THE
RE-IMAGINATION MOVEMENT OR THE
RE-IMAGINATION AND RESTRUCTURING
MOVEMENT I THINK, RIGHTFULLY,
HAS TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THESE
CLASSES OF OFFENSES DIFFERENTLY.
SOME OF THEM ARE NOT TRULY
CRIMINAL OFFENSES.
AND SO, WE'VE GOT TO RETHINK
THIS.
AND THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT
AND HE COULD HAVE NOT USED HIS
GUN.
LOOK, HOW FAR WAS THAT GENTLEMAN
GOING TO RUN?
>> Sreenivasan: WE'VE ALSO SEEN
IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IS A
CLOSING OF THE RANKS BY
DIFFERENT POLICE AGENCIES.
IN BUFFALO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAD
ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE EMERGENCY
RESPONSE TEAM RESIGN FROM THAT
UNIT, BUT NOT FROM THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT, IN SOLIDARITY WITH
THE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE
REPRIMANDED FOR PUSHING DOWN AN
OLD MAN.
IN FLORIDA YOU HAD ANOTHER CASE
RECENTLY OF MEMBERS RESIGNING
FROM THE SWAT TEAM BECAUSE THEY
FEEL THEIR ACTIONS ARE NOW BEING
POLITICIZED AND THEY DON'T FEEL
LIKE THEY CAN DO THEIR JOBS AS
WITH THE FORCE THAT MIGHT BE
NECESSARY IF, MYSELF INCLUDED,
IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE
CONVERSATIONS LOOKING OVER THEIR
SHOULDER ON SUNDAY MORNING.
>> IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PUBLIC
AND THE PEOPLE TO LOOK OVER THE
SHOULDERS OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS
AND PUBLIC SERVANTS.
IT IS.
NO ONE SHOULD BE IMMUNE FROM
THAT.
NOT THE POLICE OFFICER, NOT THE
FIREFIGHTER, NOT THE TAX
COLLECTOR, NOT THE DIRECTOR OF
BUILDING PERMITS.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD OFFER
THE POLICE OFFICER SOME SORT OF
EXALTED POSITION IN AMERICAN
LIFE WHERE THEY HAVE SUPER DUPER
PROTECTIONS, SUPER INSULATIONS,
AND THAT'S BEEN PART OF THE
CULTURE.
THOSE OFFICERS, IF THEY DO NOT
HAVE CONFIDENCE, SHOULD NOT HAVE
RESIGNED FROM THE SWAT TEAM OR
RESIGNED FROM THE UNIT.
THEY SHOULD RESIGN FROM THE
FORCE.
IF OFFICERS CAN'T TAKE THIS
TRIP, IF THEY CAN'T MOVE IN THE
DIRECTION THAT I BELIEVE
AMERICAN POLICING IS GONNA MOVE,
THEN I THINK THEY SHOULD RESIGN
AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO GO
DO.
WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE
HIRING PROCESS.
WE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE
TRAINING PROCESS.
AND WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THE
SCOPE IN THE CHARGE OF, UH,
POLICING AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
AND I THINK TOO WHAT'S IMPLICIT
IN THIS AND, AND I STRONGLY
SUPPORT, THE INVESTMENTS WE NEED
TO MAKE IN YOUTH AND SOCIAL
SERVICES IN SCHOOLS.
A RESPONSE TO EVERY SINGLE
PROBLEM CAN'T BE "LET'S PUT MORE
POLICE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD."
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE SMART
POLICING, PROGRESSIVE POLICING,
COMMUNITY POLICING, A STRATEGY
AROUND PUBLIC SAFETY, BUT IT
INCLUDES SO MANY OTHER THINGS.
AND THAT'S THE DEBATE, I THINK,
AND THE DISCUSSION THAT WE NEED
TO HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES
TODAY.
>> Sreenivasan: ONE OF THE
CENTRAL TENETS TO ME IS,
REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH MONEY YOU
POUR IN TO POLICE RETRAINING,
IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING,
DEESCALATION TRAINING AND SO
FORTH, HOW DO YOU SWITCH A
CULTURE THAT VALUES, AND
SOMETIMES RIGHTFULLY, LOYALTY?
THAT THEY SAY, "HEY, I NEED TO
KNOW THAT YOU HAVE MY BACK, THAT
IF WE GO INTO A DANGEROUS
SITUATION, I CAN COUNT ON YOU."
AND THAT ENDS UP CREATING A
SCENARIO WHERE GOOD POLICE ARE
STANDING BY WHEN SOMETHING BAD
HAPPENS BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE
"IF I TURN ON MY BROTHER OR
SISTER NOW, THEY MIGHT NOT BE
THERE FOR ME WHEN I REALLY NEED
THEM."
>> EVEN IN THAT INSTANCE,
THERE'S A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE
TO DRAW A LINE.
AND A LINE INVOLVES NOT LYING,
NOT COVERING UP, NOT LOOKING THE
OTHER WAY WHEN YOU KNOW A
PARTNER OF YOURS, OR A COWORKER,
HAS DONE SOMETHING THAT'S
OBVIOUSLY WRONG.
CORRUPTION MEANS THAT WRONGDOING
IS UNCHECKED, THAT WRONGDOING
BECOMES THE CULTURE.
SO, PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND
THAT THERE ARE LINES TO BE DRAWN
IN EVERY SINGLE INSTITUTION.
WE HAVE TO RETHINK, AND WE HAVE
TO REFORM, AND WE HAVE TO
RESTRUCTURE.
AND, LOOK, I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE
CAN GET SOMETHING THAT PROTECTS
THE PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, RESPECTS
CITIZENS AND CREATES NEW
CONFIDENCE, BUT THESE REFORMS
ARE NOT GONNA BE ABLE OPERATE
AROUND THE EDGES IN MOST
DEPARTMENTS, BECAUSE IT'S
CENTRAL TO WHAT WE NEED IN
AMERICAN COMMUNITIES TODAY.
AND, LOOK, I THINK THAT POLICE
HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO TOO MANY
THINGS.
WELL, WE NEED TO TALK TO
COMMUNITIES AND SAY "WHAT TYPE
OF SITUATIONS SHOULD BE HANDLED
BY MAYBE ANOTHER UNIT OR ANOTHER
DEPARTMENT OR ANOTHER INSTRUMENT
OR INSTRUMENTALITY OF
GOVERNMENT?"
AND I THINK THOSE ARE THE KIND
OF CONVERSATIONS THAT
COMMUNITIES HAVE TO HAVE IN A
RE-IMAGINATION.
LOOK, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE
SHOULD UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER
OF THIS MOVEMENT THAT WE SEE
MANIFESTED IN THE STREETS.
IT'S TOUCHED THE BOARDROOMS OF
AMERICA.
IT'S TOUCHED THE LEGISLATIVE
BODIES OF AMERICA.
AND YET, IT'S PROBABLY A SEGMENT
OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION WHICH
IS KICKING AND SCREAMING AND
DOESN'T SUPPORT IT.
BUT MY SENSE IS THAT THIS IS A
MOVEMENT UNLIKE ANY I'VE SEEN IN
MY, IN MY ADULT LIFE TO UNDO
RACISM, TO RESTRUCTURE THE
SOCIETY.
IT'S NOT A BLACK MOVEMENT, IT'S
NOT A WHITE MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT A
LATINO MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT AN
ASIAN MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT A--
IT'S NOT A MOVEMENT OF YOUNG
VERSUS OLD.
IT'S BEING PROPELLED BY THE
YOUNG, BUT IT IS A MOVEMENT
AGAINST RACISM AND A MOVEMENT
AGAINST DIVISION AND INTOLERANCE
IN THIS COUNTRY, AND SO WE HAVE
A CHANCE.
IN THE SHORT RUN I WANT TO SEE
CONGRESS PASS THE "JUSTICE IN
POLICING ACT."
I TESTIFIED BEFORE THE HOUSE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.
IT'S THE KIND OF REFORM MEASURE
CONGRESS SHOULD PASS.
IT'S NOT GONNA FIX OR DO ALL THE
THINGS WE DISCUSSED, BUT
CONGRESS HAS TO PUT ITS STAMP,
IT'S STAMP ON THIS ISSUE BY
SAYING WE REALIZE WE NEED TO
TAKE A GIANT LEAP FORWARD WHEN
IT COMES TO AMERICAN POLICING IN
TERMS OF CREATING
ACCOUNTABILITIES
RESPONSIBILITIES AND SYSTEMS
THAT WILL ASSIST LOCAL
COMMUNITIES IN DOING WHAT THEY
NEED TO DO.
>> Sreenivasan: MARC MORIAL, THE
URBAN LEAGUE.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.