1 00:00:02,066 --> 00:00:05,166 JOHN YANG: Some of the nominees at tonight's Grammy Awards rose to fame and popularity on music 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,800 streaming platforms like Spotify and social media apps like TikTok. Stephanie Sy takes a look at the 3 00:00:12,833 --> 00:00:17,766 changing ways we're listening to music and the challenges and opportunities that come with it. 4 00:00:19,666 --> 00:00:22,800 STEPHANIE SY: This week, Spotify passed 200 million paid subscribers. Later this month, 5 00:00:24,766 --> 00:00:29,133 Amazon Music will bump up their subscription price. And Universal Music, 6 00:00:29,133 --> 00:00:34,133 the largest label in the world, is partnering with Tidal to create what they say will be a 7 00:00:35,766 --> 00:00:38,766 more artist and fan friendly music streaming model. Long gone are the 8 00:00:38,766 --> 00:00:43,700 days when most people listen to music on the radio, a CD or their record player. 9 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:48,666 Today, over 50 percent of all the music we listen to, we stream 9 percent of people opt for free ad 10 00:00:51,566 --> 00:00:56,533 supported music streaming and 11 percent get their music from short video apps like TikTok. 11 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:02,900 For a deeper look at the factors driving how we listen to music and how that impacts the industry, 12 00:01:04,833 --> 00:01:07,966 I'm joined by Ann Powers, NPR music's critic and correspondent. Anne Powers, 13 00:01:07,966 --> 00:01:12,966 it's great to have what I understand as a fellow Beyonce fan with us. I 14 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:17,500 actually want to start with that because the Grammys are tonight and one question I have 15 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:22,500 is how platforms like TikTok and Spotify influence who is nominated for an award. 16 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:28,200 ANN POWERS: The real place where streaming platforms are changing the game for artists, 17 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,200 I think is at the level of emerging artists. So I want to focus on two who are nominated 18 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,533 in the Best New Artist category, both of whom are actually jazz artists and young 19 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,166 jazz artists. There's the duo of Domi and JD Beck who are amazing instrumentalists 20 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:49,733 and they've really found success on YouTube with their dazzling displays of virtuosity, 21 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,233 including NPR Music's Tiny Desk concert. They have a really great one. 22 00:01:56,233 --> 00:02:01,200 And then Samara Joy, the jazz singer who has won the Cerevan competition, 23 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,133 is quite a conventional, traditional jazz singer, 24 00:02:05,133 --> 00:02:10,133 but using TikTok has found an audience of young people and is out there saying jazz is a young 25 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:16,400 person's music. She is using social media to bring classic jazz to a whole new generation. 26 00:02:17,933 --> 00:02:20,433 STEPHANIE SY: You're getting at, I guess, the crux of my question, 27 00:02:20,433 --> 00:02:25,433 which is the democratization of music and maybe DIY talent, 28 00:02:27,433 --> 00:02:30,833 where they found fame simply by streaming on YouTube. That was their only distributor, 29 00:02:30,833 --> 00:02:35,833 they didn't need a major label whether that is one of the benefits of streaming services. 30 00:02:37,833 --> 00:02:41,333 ANN POWERS: You have artists who are writing their own music on their laptops and then putting 31 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,833 it directly up on services like SoundCloud, for example. You have independent streaming services, 32 00:02:49,866 --> 00:02:54,200 or rather platforms like Bandcamp who are really working with artists to stay independent. 33 00:02:56,766 --> 00:02:59,600 At the same time, though, it's complicated because the bigger, best known streaming platforms like 34 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,300 Spotify, like YouTube are not necessarily benefiting artists financially that much. 35 00:03:08,833 --> 00:03:11,566 STEPHANIE SY: Are these platforms also influencing how mainstream artists may be producing music? 36 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,600 ANN POWERS: I think they are. I mean, not only in that streaming has brought back the 37 00:03:20,066 --> 00:03:22,200 music video very strongly. Someone like Harry Styles, 38 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,100 another multiple nominee tonight, you know, he's a very visual artist, 39 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:31,100 and I think he gets a lot out of making exciting videos that go viral on the platforms. 40 00:03:33,066 --> 00:03:37,433 But also it creates a different relationship between these mega stars and their audiences. 41 00:03:39,266 --> 00:03:43,300 There's a way in which we feel that we know Beyonce, for example. Well, 42 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:46,766 I don't know. Do you feel that you know Beyonce? I feel I know her just a little. 43 00:03:46,766 --> 00:03:48,833 STEPHANIE SY: I do. I definitely do. 44 00:03:48,833 --> 00:03:53,333 ANN POWERS: Because she discloses what she wants to disclose of her life through 45 00:03:54,933 --> 00:03:58,700 streaming platforms and through Instagram, for example. Doing that, 46 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,233 we feel a connection to these stars. They create a connection between us and them. 47 00:04:05,233 --> 00:04:08,566 STEPHANIE SY: I remember Radiohead always raging against Spotify, 48 00:04:08,566 --> 00:04:13,566 along with Taylor Swift. Back in 2013, as you may remember, Tom York, the lead singer, 49 00:04:16,033 --> 00:04:18,833 said that Spotify was, quote, the last desperate fart of a dying corpse. And he condemned the 50 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:24,833 service for disconnecting the artist from the listener. There's still those complaints from 51 00:04:26,866 --> 00:04:30,500 many artists that Spotify in particular does not pay them what they're worth. 52 00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:35,500 ANN POWERS: I think for the major artists on major labels, it's a lot better than it used to be. 53 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:40,500 Where it's really hurt artists is the middle class and emerging artists who now only get fractions of 54 00:04:43,066 --> 00:04:48,066 pennies from releases and talk about that all the time on other streaming platforms, like Twitter, 55 00:04:49,966 --> 00:04:54,000 for example. There's been a lot of efforts by artists, whether it's to raise awareness, 56 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:59,000 to try to organize as workers, or now, as you mentioned, the Universal Music Group 57 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:04,800 deal with Tidal, you know, to try to figure out a way to be more equitable with artists. 58 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,100 And of course, Tidal is an artist own platform founded by Jay Z, Beyonce's partner. So, 59 00:05:13,733 --> 00:05:16,500 you know, there are attempts, but it's still really tough for 60 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:21,033 artists. It's harder than it used to be for people to make a living as musicians. 61 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:23,866 STEPHANIE SY: It all goes back to Queen Bey. Ann Powers, 62 00:05:23,866 --> 00:05:28,400 NPR music critic and correspondent, thank you so much for joining us. 63 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,200 ANN POWERS: Thank you so much for having me.