WEBVTT

00:02.066 --> 00:05.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
JOHN YANG: Some of the nominees
at tonight's Grammy Awards rose
to fame and popularity on music

00:07.600 --> 00:10.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
streaming platforms like
Spotify and social media
apps like TikTok. Stephanie
Sy takes a look at the

00:12.833 --> 00:17.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
changing ways we're listening
to music and the challenges and
opportunities that come with it.

00:19.666 --> 00:22.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: This week,
Spotify passed 200 million paid
subscribers. Later this month,

00:24.766 --> 00:29.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Amazon Music will bump up
their subscription price.
And Universal Music,

00:29.133 --> 00:34.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
the largest label in the world,
is partnering with Tidal to
create what they say will be a

00:35.766 --> 00:38.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
more artist and fan
friendly music streaming
model. Long gone are the

00:38.766 --> 00:43.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
days when most people listen
to music on the radio, a
CD or their record player.

00:43.700 --> 00:48.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Today, over 50 percent of
all the music we listen
to, we stream 9 percent
of people opt for free ad

00:51.566 --> 00:56.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
supported music streaming and
11 percent get their music from
short video apps like TikTok.

00:59.100 --> 01:02.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
For a deeper look at the
factors driving how we
listen to music and how
that impacts the industry,

01:04.833 --> 01:07.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I'm joined by Ann Powers,
NPR music's critic and
correspondent. Anne Powers,

01:07.966 --> 01:12.966 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
it's great to have what
I understand as a fellow
Beyonce fan with us. I

01:14.900 --> 01:17.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
actually want to start with
that because the Grammys are
tonight and one question I have

01:17.500 --> 01:22.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
is how platforms like TikTok
and Spotify influence who
is nominated for an award.

01:24.500 --> 01:28.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ANN POWERS: The real place
where streaming platforms are
changing the game for artists,

01:28.200 --> 01:33.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I think is at the level of
emerging artists. So I want to
focus on two who are nominated

01:35.000 --> 01:38.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
in the Best New Artist
category, both of whom are
actually jazz artists and young

01:40.600 --> 01:44.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
jazz artists. There's the
duo of Domi and JD Beck who
are amazing instrumentalists

01:46.100 --> 01:49.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and they've really found
success on YouTube with their
dazzling displays of virtuosity,

01:51.800 --> 01:56.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
including NPR Music's
Tiny Desk concert. They
have a really great one.

01:56.233 --> 02:01.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
And then Samara Joy, the
jazz singer who has won
the Cerevan competition,

02:02.400 --> 02:05.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
is quite a conventional,
traditional jazz singer,

02:05.133 --> 02:10.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
but using TikTok has found an
audience of young people and is
out there saying jazz is a young

02:12.100 --> 02:16.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
person's music. She is using
social media to bring classic
jazz to a whole new generation.

02:17.933 --> 02:20.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: You're
getting at, I guess,
the crux of my question,

02:20.433 --> 02:25.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
which is the democratization
of music and maybe DIY talent,

02:27.433 --> 02:30.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
where they found fame simply
by streaming on YouTube. That
was their only distributor,

02:30.833 --> 02:35.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
they didn't need a major label
whether that is one of the
benefits of streaming services.

02:37.833 --> 02:41.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ANN POWERS: You have artists who
are writing their own music on
their laptops and then putting

02:43.600 --> 02:47.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
it directly up on services
like SoundCloud, for
example. You have independent
streaming services,

02:49.866 --> 02:54.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70%
or rather platforms like
Bandcamp who are really
working with artists
to stay independent.

02:56.766 --> 02:59.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
At the same time, though,
it's complicated because
the bigger, best known
streaming platforms like

03:01.600 --> 03:06.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
Spotify, like YouTube are
not necessarily benefiting
artists financially that much.

03:08.833 --> 03:11.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: Are these
platforms also influencing
how mainstream artists
may be producing music?

03:13.600 --> 03:18.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ANN POWERS: I think they
are. I mean, not only in that
streaming has brought back the

03:20.066 --> 03:22.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
music video very strongly.
Someone like Harry Styles,

03:22.200 --> 03:26.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
another multiple nominee
tonight, you know, he's
a very visual artist,

03:26.100 --> 03:31.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
and I think he gets a lot out
of making exciting videos that
go viral on the platforms.

03:33.066 --> 03:37.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
But also it creates a different
relationship between these
mega stars and their audiences.

03:39.266 --> 03:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
There's a way in which
we feel that we know
Beyonce, for example. Well,

03:43.300 --> 03:46.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
I don't know. Do you feel
that you know Beyonce? I feel
I know her just a little.

03:46.766 --> 03:48.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: I do.
I definitely do.

03:48.833 --> 03:53.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
ANN POWERS: Because she
discloses what she wants to
disclose of her life through

03:54.933 --> 03:58.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
streaming platforms and
through Instagram, for
example. Doing that,

04:00.600 --> 04:05.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
we feel a connection to
these stars. They create a
connection between us and them.

04:05.233 --> 04:08.566 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
STEPHANIE SY: I remember
Radiohead always
raging against Spotify,

04:08.566 --> 04:13.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
along with Taylor Swift. Back
in 2013, as you may remember,
Tom York, the lead singer,

04:16.033 --> 04:18.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
said that Spotify was,
quote, the last desperate
fart of a dying corpse.
And he condemned the

04:21.300 --> 04:24.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
service for disconnecting
the artist from the
listener. There's still
those complaints from

04:26.866 --> 04:30.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
many artists that Spotify
in particular does not pay
them what they're worth.

04:30.500 --> 04:35.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
ANN POWERS: I think for
the major artists on
major labels, it's a lot
better than it used to be.

04:35.500 --> 04:40.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
Where it's really hurt
artists is the middle class
and emerging artists who
now only get fractions of

04:43.066 --> 04:48.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80%
pennies from releases and
talk about that all the
time on other streaming
platforms, like Twitter,

04:49.966 --> 04:54.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
for example. There's been a
lot of efforts by artists,
whether it's to raise awareness,

04:54.000 --> 04:59.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
to try to organize as workers,
or now, as you mentioned,
the Universal Music Group

05:01.100 --> 05:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
deal with Tidal, you know, to
try to figure out a way to be
more equitable with artists.

05:06.800 --> 05:11.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
And of course, Tidal is an
artist own platform founded by
Jay Z, Beyonce's partner. So,

05:13.733 --> 05:16.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
you know, there are attempts,
but it's still really tough for

05:16.500 --> 05:21.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80%
artists. It's harder than
it used to be for people to
make a living as musicians.

05:21.033 --> 05:23.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80%
STEPHANIE SY: It all goes
back to Queen Bey. Ann Powers,

05:23.866 --> 05:28.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70%
NPR music critic and
correspondent, thank you
so much for joining us.

05:28.400 --> 05:30.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70%
ANN POWERS: Thank you
so much for having me.