WEBVTT 00:01.233 --> 00:03.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Now let's turn to politics Monday. 00:03.733 --> 00:07.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I'm with our regular duo, Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report and host of public radio's 00:08.200 --> 00:10.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% "Politics With Amy Walter." 00:10.200 --> 00:14.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Tamara Keith from NPR, she also co-hosts the "NPR Politics Podcast. 00:16.033 --> 00:17.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% " 00:17.033 --> 00:18.033 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Hello to both of you. 00:18.033 --> 00:19.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It is Politics Monday. 00:19.566 --> 00:21.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So let's talk about this Iowa poll we were just discussing. 00:21.933 --> 00:24.033 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Amy, what do you make of it? 00:24.033 --> 00:25.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Well, Elizabeth Warren has had a great summer, and 00:25.866 --> 00:27.900 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% it shows. 00:27.900 --> 00:30.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% When you talk to folks who are in and around Iowa, that's what you are hearing. 00:30.433 --> 00:35.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At the Iowa State Fair this summer, all the buzz was about Elizabeth Warren, and now it's 00:36.333 --> 00:38.466 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% borne itself out in this poll. 00:38.466 --> 00:42.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I do think it's important, yes, as Ann Selzer points out, that these things are fluid. 00:42.766 --> 00:45.366 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Everything is fluid in Iowa. 00:45.366 --> 00:49.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% In fact, I remember going back to other Democratic primaries where, at this point, after a very 00:51.366 --> 00:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% good summer, it looked like Howard Dean not only was going to win Iowa, but was going 00:54.733 --> 00:56.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% to be the nominee. 00:56.866 --> 01:01.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So was Hillary Clinton in 2008, who was doing quite well in the September Des Moines Register 01:02.000 --> 01:04.600 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% poll. 01:04.600 --> 01:08.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But Iowa, it tends to be that, around Thanksgiving time, Iowa voters, even though they're paying 01:09.366 --> 01:11.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a whole lot of attention, really get it into another gear. 01:11.466 --> 01:16.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What's different, though, this year, I feel like that Iowa has taken just on a whole new 01:16.133 --> 01:17.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% dimension. 01:17.133 --> 01:18.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% It's always important. 01:18.600 --> 01:21.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% It's always -- it sets the pace for the campaign. 01:21.433 --> 01:25.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But this year, with the issue of electability so important in the minds of the voters, the 01:25.833 --> 01:29.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% winner then gets to make the case that they are a winner. 01:29.966 --> 01:32.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, you can't say, just because you win a primary, that means you are going to beat 01:32.466 --> 01:34.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Donald Trump, but folks are looking for a winner. 01:34.766 --> 01:39.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think they're going to take cues from Iowa in a way maybe even more than we have 01:39.733 --> 01:41.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% seen before. 01:41.700 --> 01:43.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And so Elizabeth Warren gets a little bit of a bump out of this. 01:43.633 --> 01:45.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Yes. 01:45.633 --> 01:48.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And if you have been out talking to voters, you have been hearing she is, at the moment, 01:48.966 --> 01:51.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the excitement candidate. 01:51.000 --> 01:54.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And part of the way her campaign has been showing that is, they don't want to talk about 01:54.066 --> 01:55.800 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% polls. 01:55.800 --> 01:57.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They don't want to talk about horse race. 01:57.800 --> 02:02.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% But then they hold a really big rally in New York. 02:02.066 --> 02:06.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that is sort of another way that they're making an electability argument, which is 02:06.733 --> 02:11.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to say, look, Elizabeth Warren can get a really big crowd in a very liberal urban place. 02:13.433 --> 02:15.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You know who else did that in 2016? 02:15.633 --> 02:17.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Bernie Sanders. 02:17.566 --> 02:21.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I actually went to a rally in the very same park that Bernie Sanders held that looked 02:21.033 --> 02:23.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% a whole lot like that rally. 02:23.066 --> 02:28.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And Elizabeth Warren is sort of capturing that mood at this time in the campaign, in 02:29.166 --> 02:30.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a way that Bernie Sanders did last time. 02:30.700 --> 02:32.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Huge crowds, Bernie Sanders was getting. 02:32.933 --> 02:37.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% At the same time, we know that there are a number of candidates who are struggling. 02:39.900 --> 02:41.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Those are the ones who are in the single digits in Iowa and in other polls, Amy. 02:41.933 --> 02:46.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, in fact, one of them, Cory Booker, has said in the last few days -- he said it openly: 02:46.733 --> 02:51.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If I don't raise $1.8 million in the next few days, I can't stay in this race, because 02:53.066 --> 02:54.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of the pressure to do better. 02:54.766 --> 02:56.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMY WALTER: The pressure to do better. 02:56.800 --> 03:01.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Plus, no campaigns die because the member who's running decides or the candidate decides, 03:02.566 --> 03:03.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you know what, I guess I didn't want to be president. 03:03.900 --> 03:05.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 03:05.066 --> 03:07.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMY WALTER: They always run out of money. 03:07.133 --> 03:11.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it's hard to sustain money when you're not either moving in the polls or making any 03:13.000 --> 03:15.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% change, it looks like, in the other dynamic. 03:15.033 --> 03:16.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's been on the stage in all the debates. 03:16.800 --> 03:18.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think, personally, he's done a very good job. 03:18.600 --> 03:21.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% He's been very effective as a debater. 03:21.966 --> 03:24.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But it hasn't seemed to really translate. 03:24.200 --> 03:29.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think, for so many voters now, they like, basically, the known brands, and they're 03:29.200 --> 03:32.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% choosing between the known brands of Biden, Warren and Sanders. 03:32.533 --> 03:37.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And they haven't been interested as much in looking around for those people who they don't 03:37.233 --> 03:38.466 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% know so well. 03:38.466 --> 03:39.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Tam -- go ahead, Tam. 03:39.266 --> 03:41.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% TAMARA KEITH: Yes. 03:41.266 --> 03:43.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of the challenges that Cory Booker has been facing and that several of the candidates 03:43.466 --> 03:47.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% have faced is the cost of acquisition of donors. 03:47.033 --> 03:49.133 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% AMY WALTER: Right. 03:49.133 --> 03:53.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: And that is a very technical thing that I'm saying, but it's a real issue. 03:55.033 --> 03:57.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They are -- they are having to spend a lot of money on Facebook ads and other ways of 03:57.266 --> 03:59.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% going out and getting more individual donors. 03:59.966 --> 04:04.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that is all related to the Democratic Party's qualifications for the debates. 04:06.833 --> 04:10.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's really creating a dynamic that hasn't existed in past primaries. 04:13.200 --> 04:15.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMY WALTER: Yes, I have heard a lot of grumbling, the same grumbling you have, from campaigns 04:15.300 --> 04:19.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% saying, boy, if we didn't have to spend all that money trying to get these donor -- online 04:19.233 --> 04:21.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% donors, we'd have enough money to be in this race. 04:21.533 --> 04:24.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: You're seeing that in a number of places. 04:24.066 --> 04:29.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% In fact, there's a story in Politico today quoting the former Iowa State Democratic Party 04:31.133 --> 04:35.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% chair, saying, "It's a national primary, based on the worst foundation, name I.D. and money." 04:36.666 --> 04:38.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% He said, "We're supposed to be the party of ideas." 04:38.600 --> 04:42.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He's criticizing what the party is doing in squeezing these candidates. 04:42.200 --> 04:44.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AMY WALTER: Right, in some ways. 04:44.233 --> 04:46.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I would argue part of the reason that Elizabeth Warren has been so successful is 04:46.266 --> 04:50.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because she has been the candidate of ideas, because she has been the one candidate to 04:50.366 --> 04:54.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really break through, not just with, "I have a plan," but she has a narrative. 04:54.533 --> 04:59.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She has a narrative and a case that she's making for not just her, but for her entire 05:01.633 --> 05:04.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% presidency, that people are really attaching to. 05:04.433 --> 05:06.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% She's made it personal. 05:06.533 --> 05:10.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% She's -- she's very much connecting with people beyond just -- it's not just a, like, shiny 05:11.366 --> 05:13.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% object kind of attachment. 05:13.433 --> 05:17.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But we could be heading for debates in the next -- in the coming months 05:17.700 --> 05:20.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% with many fewer candidates on the stage. 05:20.233 --> 05:21.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% AMY WALTER: Right. 05:21.233 --> 05:23.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% TAMARA KEITH: Right. 05:23.266 --> 05:25.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And when you talk to voters, they are overwhelmed by the number of candidates. 05:25.600 --> 05:30.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, certainly, these debates have been overwhelming, in that when there are 10 people on stage, 05:31.800 --> 05:33.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% even -- like, we try to talk about it on our podcast afterwards. 05:33.833 --> 05:37.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And you can't even fit all of the candidates into the podcast afterwards. 05:37.766 --> 05:40.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% It's very difficult to manage. 05:40.766 --> 05:43.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And so that's part of what the DNC is doing. 05:43.100 --> 05:48.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But then you have candidates who say, but, wait, this is my only shot to get in front 05:48.033 --> 05:50.033 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of people. 05:50.033 --> 05:52.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Completely different subject, all the news of the last few days about the 05:52.466 --> 05:57.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% whistle-blower in the intelligence community talking about the president having a conversation 05:57.233 --> 06:01.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with the president of Ukraine, Amy, in which there may have been a promise. 06:01.666 --> 06:03.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% We don't know. 06:03.733 --> 06:07.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's believed to have been about pressuring the president of Ukraine to investigate Joe 06:07.366 --> 06:08.366 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Biden. 06:08.366 --> 06:10.400 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% AMY WALTER: Right. 06:10.400 --> 06:13.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So the question I have for the two of you is, is this leading some of 06:13.166 --> 06:18.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% those Democrats who've been resistant to pushing to going for a full-blown impeachment? 06:19.033 --> 06:21.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Is it changing some minds? 06:21.066 --> 06:24.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMY WALTER: I think that's the question that Tam and I were both searching around for today, 06:24.100 --> 06:28.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% making calls and trying to figure out if it's really changed the dynamic. 06:28.133 --> 06:31.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% My sense from talking to some folks is, look, this is certainly a new wrinkle, because it's 06:31.900 --> 06:33.933 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% no longer about Mueller. 06:33.933 --> 06:36.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think the sense was, the Mueller report has sort of played its way out. 06:36.466 --> 06:40.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, yes, they could continue to have more hearings about some of the characters there. 06:40.366 --> 06:43.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% But this is an entirely different situation. 06:43.833 --> 06:45.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% There's still a worry. 06:45.300 --> 06:46.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% As you pointed out, we don't have the facts yet. 06:46.966 --> 06:49.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And so what they were telling me is, we need to see that transcript. 06:49.766 --> 06:53.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% We need to understand what was actually said before we come out. 06:53.033 --> 06:55.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% But this is -- this is definitely opening new territory. 06:55.633 --> 07:00.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There was a member of Congress, Tam, I guess we have just learned this afternoon, 07:02.666 --> 07:05.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% freshman Democrat from Minnesota, Dean Phillips, who had been in the camp of no on impeachment 07:07.166 --> 07:09.966 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% proceedings, is now moving in that direction because of all this. 07:09.966 --> 07:13.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: And there has been a slow movement of Democrats. 07:13.700 --> 07:15.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% The numbers do continue growing. 07:15.300 --> 07:19.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And this is another thing that is weighing on some of them. 07:19.400 --> 07:24.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Nancy Pelosi, yesterday -- I believe it was yesterday -- used stronger language than she's 07:26.433 --> 07:29.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% used before in referring to the way the administration is sort of stonewalling investigations. 07:31.700 --> 07:36.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think we will know more by the end of this week whether the whistle-blower complaint 07:36.166 --> 07:40.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will be seen by the relevant congressional committees or whether this is going to be 07:40.633 --> 07:44.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that same dynamic that's played out over any number of issues that Democrats in Congress 07:44.766 --> 07:46.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% have been trying to investigate. 07:46.266 --> 07:49.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And, in some ways, they're just -- they're just stuck. 07:49.233 --> 07:51.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% AMY WALTER: Yes. 07:51.233 --> 07:54.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And if Republicans don't move, then the dynamics remain the same, too, right? 07:54.900 --> 07:59.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If there's no movement either from Republicans in the House or a sense that Republicans in 07:59.400 --> 08:03.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Senate want to push this forward, then we're kind of back at square one, to your 08:03.166 --> 08:04.866 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% point. 08:04.866 --> 08:07.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% TAMARA KEITH: And one tweet from Mitt Romney, the senator from Utah... 08:07.766 --> 08:09.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 08:09.833 --> 08:12.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: ... sort of wringing his hands is not really a big movement there. 08:12.433 --> 08:13.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% AMY WALTER: Yes. 08:13.600 --> 08:15.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, we heard it here. 08:15.200 --> 08:16.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 08:16.633 --> 08:17.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Tamara Keith, Amy Walter, thank you. 08:17.566 --> 08:18.500 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% AMY WALTER: You're welcome. 08:18.500 --> 08:18.633 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.