1 00:00:01,966 --> 00:00:04,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: From Trump supporter to Trump challenger, former Illinois Congressman Joe 2 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:09,500 Walsh recently announced that he will take on the incumbent president in the 2020 Republican 3 00:00:10,566 --> 00:00:12,566 presidential primary. 4 00:00:12,566 --> 00:00:16,933 He joins former Massachusetts Governor William Weld in challenging President Trump. 5 00:00:18,933 --> 00:00:22,133 Walsh gained national attention in 2010, when he was elected to the House of Representatives 6 00:00:22,133 --> 00:00:24,100 as a member of the Tea Party. 7 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:28,966 He served one term, lost his reelection bid and, until yesterday, hosted a conservative 8 00:00:29,566 --> 00:00:30,766 radio talk show. 9 00:00:30,766 --> 00:00:32,933 And Joe Walsh joins us now. 10 00:00:32,933 --> 00:00:34,866 Thank you for being on the "NewsHour." 11 00:00:34,866 --> 00:00:36,433 JOE WALSH (R), Presidential Candidate: Good to be view with you, Judy. 12 00:00:36,433 --> 00:00:38,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, why are you running for president? 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,800 JOE WALSH: It's a difficult thing to say, but I think we have a president, I believe 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,233 we have a president who's just unfit to be president. 15 00:00:46,233 --> 00:00:50,066 I have been hoping all year that a Republican would step up. 16 00:00:50,066 --> 00:00:52,633 I think it's important for the Republican Party. 17 00:00:52,633 --> 00:00:55,433 More importantly, I think it's important for the country. 18 00:00:55,433 --> 00:00:59,066 When I say something like that, Judy, it's a pretty serious charge. 19 00:00:59,066 --> 00:01:04,033 I think we have somebody in the White House who's unfit, somebody who lies virtually every 20 00:01:05,933 --> 00:01:09,166 time he opens his mouth, somebody who's so erratic right now, he's almost tweeting the 21 00:01:10,033 --> 00:01:11,833 country into a recession. 22 00:01:11,833 --> 00:01:13,966 I think it's a fairly urgent situation. 23 00:01:13,966 --> 00:01:18,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: You were, though, in 2016, an enthusiastic supporter of his. 24 00:01:20,166 --> 00:01:22,300 What drew you to him in the first place? 25 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:27,300 JOE WALSH: The people who voted for Donald Trump were the same people who voted for me, 26 00:01:29,166 --> 00:01:31,200 and they're the same people, Judy, who listened to me on the radio. 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,466 They were upset and angry about what's going on down at the border about people in this 28 00:01:35,466 --> 00:01:37,133 country illegally. 29 00:01:37,133 --> 00:01:40,900 And the Republican Party generally was out of touch with that issue. 30 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:42,433 Now, Trump touched that issue. 31 00:01:42,433 --> 00:01:44,000 He tapped that issue. 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,033 That was a big issue to me and a lot of my listeners. 33 00:01:46,033 --> 00:01:48,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: But what was it? 34 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:49,466 Was that the main reason? 35 00:01:49,466 --> 00:01:51,566 It was immigration? 36 00:01:51,566 --> 00:01:55,466 JOE WALSH: No, I think that was the biggest issue that got Donald Trump elected. 37 00:01:57,466 --> 00:01:59,966 It was one of the biggest issues that I was concerned about, and that most of my listeners 38 00:01:59,966 --> 00:02:01,733 and voters were concerned about. 39 00:02:01,733 --> 00:02:04,733 But there was this sense, Judy, that the system was broken. 40 00:02:04,733 --> 00:02:05,966 And I agree. 41 00:02:05,966 --> 00:02:08,000 That's why I went to Congress in 2010. 42 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,766 Both political parties kind of were broken. 43 00:02:10,766 --> 00:02:13,666 The whole political system had broke down. 44 00:02:13,666 --> 00:02:18,666 And people sent Trump to Washington to shake it up and drain the swamp and all of that. 45 00:02:19,833 --> 00:02:22,433 The problem is, all he's done is disrupt. 46 00:02:22,433 --> 00:02:24,500 And he hasn't done anything to fix. 47 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:27,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: But you stayed with him after he was elected president. 48 00:02:27,733 --> 00:02:31,533 You supported him for a number of months. 49 00:02:31,533 --> 00:02:36,000 What was it that you didn't see in the beginning that was there to you later? 50 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,700 JOE WALSH: Judy, this may sound odd, and, if it is, I apologize. 51 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:42,733 When I voted for Trump, I didn't love him. 52 00:02:42,733 --> 00:02:43,733 I didn't like him. 53 00:02:43,733 --> 00:02:45,000 He wasn't Hillary. 54 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,066 I figured -- I thought he was sort of a goof. 55 00:02:49,066 --> 00:02:53,833 I figured he'd hire a few good people, and maybe a few good things would happen. 56 00:02:53,833 --> 00:02:58,433 When -- then, when he first became president, I did the whole good Trump/bad Trump thing. 57 00:02:58,433 --> 00:03:00,633 When he did something that I thought was pretty good, I would praise him. 58 00:03:00,633 --> 00:03:02,733 I would criticize him when he didn't. 59 00:03:02,733 --> 00:03:07,733 It became apparent to me, Judy, that first year, again, that almost everything he said, 60 00:03:09,066 --> 00:03:11,600 he would lie to the American people all the time. 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,966 That really bothered me, no matter who your politics are. 62 00:03:13,966 --> 00:03:17,733 And then, finally, at Helsinki last year, in July of 2013... 63 00:03:17,733 --> 00:03:19,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: When he met with Vladimir Putin. 64 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:23,900 JOE WALSH: Judy, when he stood in front of the world, and said, I believe that guy Putin, 65 00:03:25,333 --> 00:03:28,000 and not my own people, I got ahead of myself with a tweet. 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,000 To me, that was an act of disloyalty. 67 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,766 And that's -- that was the final straw for me. 68 00:03:33,766 --> 00:03:35,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: So what would change? 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,233 If Joe Walsh were elected president, what policy would be different under your presidency 70 00:03:41,366 --> 00:03:43,200 from the way it is under President Trump? 71 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,033 Because you just said you agree with him on a number of... 72 00:03:45,033 --> 00:03:46,666 JOE WALSH: On a number of issues. 73 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:48,766 It's interesting. 74 00:03:48,766 --> 00:03:51,633 So let's go back to the issue that got him elected, one of the issues I care most about, 75 00:03:51,633 --> 00:03:52,633 the border. 76 00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:53,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. 77 00:03:53,633 --> 00:03:55,666 JOE WALSH: He ran on that issue. 78 00:03:55,666 --> 00:03:58,933 As you know, because you report on it, the situation at our border now is a bigger mess 79 00:03:58,933 --> 00:04:00,433 than it was when he got elected. 80 00:04:00,433 --> 00:04:02,466 Why is that? 81 00:04:02,466 --> 00:04:05,733 Because all he talked about, Judy, was this wall, wall, wall, wall, and Mexico's going 82 00:04:05,733 --> 00:04:06,833 to pay for it. 83 00:04:06,833 --> 00:04:08,800 He hasn't done anything at the border. 84 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,700 We have a humane crisis right now at our border, people coming to claim asylum. 85 00:04:14,866 --> 00:04:16,333 That has nothing to do with a wall. 86 00:04:16,333 --> 00:04:18,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: But you have said you would close the border. 87 00:04:18,366 --> 00:04:22,100 You would be -- would you be even tougher on people coming into this country than the 88 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:24,166 president has been? 89 00:04:24,166 --> 00:04:26,966 JOE WALSH: Certainly, anybody trying to come into the country illegally, I would be tougher. 90 00:04:26,966 --> 00:04:30,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: Would you separate children from their parents at the border, as this 91 00:04:30,533 --> 00:04:31,666 administration has done? 92 00:04:31,666 --> 00:04:32,933 JOE WALSH: No. 93 00:04:32,933 --> 00:04:34,966 And then so that's the second piece. 94 00:04:34,966 --> 00:04:38,100 People coming into the country illegally, there's got to be no exception. 95 00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:43,100 But people coming here to claim asylum, which is a legal thing to do, totally different 96 00:04:44,133 --> 00:04:46,200 group of people. 97 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,800 And those people right now -- and that's our biggest crisis at the border right now -- those 98 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,800 people have to be dealt with humanely, and as quickly as we can deal with their asylum 99 00:04:55,266 --> 00:04:57,366 claims. 100 00:04:57,366 --> 00:04:59,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: But, as you know, the president wants to crack down on asylum claims. 101 00:04:59,333 --> 00:05:02,266 He wants many fewer -- he wants those people to go back to the countries they came from 102 00:05:02,266 --> 00:05:04,333 while their asylum claims are pending. 103 00:05:04,333 --> 00:05:09,033 JOE WALSH: Again, anybody around the world has the right to come here and claim asylum, 104 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:11,566 OK? 105 00:05:11,566 --> 00:05:13,866 It's our responsibility -- this is a fundamental difference, Judy, with me and the president. 106 00:05:13,866 --> 00:05:16,333 It's our responsibility to hear those claims. 107 00:05:16,333 --> 00:05:19,133 Now, we do a lousy job now of doing that. 108 00:05:19,133 --> 00:05:22,833 We have got to devote the resources to do - - deal with those a lot quicker. 109 00:05:22,833 --> 00:05:25,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: Climate change, where are you on climate change? 110 00:05:25,733 --> 00:05:29,566 Do you believe that humans have a role in it and that humans should be taking urgent 111 00:05:29,566 --> 00:05:30,566 action now to do something? 112 00:05:30,566 --> 00:05:32,033 JOE WALSH: Yes to the former. 113 00:05:32,033 --> 00:05:34,066 On the urgent action, I don't know. 114 00:05:34,066 --> 00:05:38,933 Certainly, on action, I -- the first big step, Judy, is my party, the Republican Party, has 115 00:05:40,133 --> 00:05:42,800 to acknowledge it's an issue, it's a problem. 116 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,233 This president won't. 117 00:05:44,233 --> 00:05:46,933 And, in fact, I don't even think he understands the issue. 118 00:05:46,933 --> 00:05:51,766 So it would be an issue, I think, the Republican Party needs to get on board with and lead 119 00:05:51,766 --> 00:05:53,866 on. 120 00:05:53,866 --> 00:05:57,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: But would you -- for example, would you take steps that would make business 121 00:05:57,733 --> 00:05:59,600 very upset because it might cost jobs? 122 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,433 JOE WALSH: I would be -- I would be very careful. 123 00:06:03,433 --> 00:06:05,900 And I'm not trying to be vague, Judy. 124 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:09,933 The first step is for a Republican president to acknowledge it's a problem, man is contributing 125 00:06:10,566 --> 00:06:12,633 to the problem. 126 00:06:12,633 --> 00:06:16,233 And then let's bring all the important people together, including business and businesses, 127 00:06:16,233 --> 00:06:18,400 and figure out things that need to be done. 128 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,400 But before we do anything to impact the American economy, we have got -- we have got to make 129 00:06:24,566 --> 00:06:26,033 sure we have got the accurate data. 130 00:06:26,033 --> 00:06:28,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: What about gay rights, same-sex marriage? 131 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,866 I'm jumping around because these are important issues to many voters. 132 00:06:30,866 --> 00:06:33,366 JOE WALSH: No, that's OK. 133 00:06:33,366 --> 00:06:35,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: Gay rights, same-sex marriage, this is an administration that has taken steps 134 00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:40,000 to, in many ways, crack down on and reduce benefits for people who are -- or just allow 135 00:06:43,566 --> 00:06:46,466 some discrimination against people who happen to be gay. 136 00:06:46,466 --> 00:06:47,700 JOE WALSH: Yes. 137 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:49,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: Where do you stand on that? 138 00:06:49,166 --> 00:06:50,566 JOE WALSH: Same-sex marriage is the law of the land. 139 00:06:50,566 --> 00:06:51,566 That's the way it is. 140 00:06:51,566 --> 00:06:54,066 So we all accept it. 141 00:06:54,066 --> 00:06:57,566 When it comes to gay rights -- and this administration has been very tough on transgenders and gays 142 00:06:58,933 --> 00:07:01,233 serving in the media -- excuse me -- in the military. 143 00:07:01,233 --> 00:07:03,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: In the military. 144 00:07:03,333 --> 00:07:07,433 JOE WALSH: Absolutely, anybody who can qualify to serve in the military, gay, straight or 145 00:07:07,433 --> 00:07:09,833 transgender, should be able to serve. 146 00:07:09,833 --> 00:07:11,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: Abortion, where do you stand? 147 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,666 JOE WALSH: I'm pro-life. 148 00:07:13,666 --> 00:07:17,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: And you have said in the past no exceptions, even when the life of the mother 149 00:07:17,533 --> 00:07:18,700 is at stake. 150 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:21,133 JOE WALSH: I'm pro-life without exception. 151 00:07:21,133 --> 00:07:25,566 That decision right there is between the mother and the doctor. 152 00:07:25,566 --> 00:07:30,566 I do believe that the whole Roe v. Wade issue may have to be dealt with, but I'm pro-life 153 00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:33,933 without exception. 154 00:07:33,933 --> 00:07:37,233 JUDY WOODRUFF: Joe Walsh, you have made, as we -- as it's been reported, a number of controversial, 155 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,366 even incendiary statements over the years, a radio talk show host, somebody who's been 156 00:07:41,366 --> 00:07:42,366 outspoken. 157 00:07:42,366 --> 00:07:44,466 JOE WALSH: Yes. 158 00:07:44,466 --> 00:07:47,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: You have apologized for a number of them in the last recent days and weeks. 159 00:07:47,966 --> 00:07:51,300 But when did you start to think some of these statements were wrong? 160 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:52,300 And I just want to ask you about... 161 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:54,100 JOE WALSH: Sure. 162 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:55,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: For example, you said President Obama is a Muslim. 163 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,033 You have said that he was born outside the United States. 164 00:07:58,033 --> 00:08:00,200 JOE WALSH: No, I never -- I never didn't say that. 165 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,066 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, you were -- you sounded sympathetic to the birther false statements 166 00:08:06,533 --> 00:08:07,533 that were out there. 167 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:08,766 JOE WALSH: Absolutely. 168 00:08:08,766 --> 00:08:10,233 And, Judy, that's an important distinction. 169 00:08:10,233 --> 00:08:13,333 I never was part of the so-called birther movement. 170 00:08:13,333 --> 00:08:14,833 But you're right. 171 00:08:14,833 --> 00:08:18,533 On a number of occasions, I said Barack Obama is a Muslim. 172 00:08:18,533 --> 00:08:22,433 I wrote in an -- an op-ed in The New York Times about two weeks ago... 173 00:08:22,433 --> 00:08:24,433 JUDY WOODRUFF: Right. 174 00:08:24,433 --> 00:08:26,666 JOE WALSH: ... saying that President Trump is unfit, somebody should challenge him. 175 00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:31,666 And I apologized for the role I played in what I believe is helping to put an unfit 176 00:08:32,533 --> 00:08:34,000 con man in the White House. 177 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,300 Judy, I went to Washington in 2010 to raise hell. 178 00:08:36,300 --> 00:08:38,566 I was part of that Tea Party class. 179 00:08:38,566 --> 00:08:43,566 And oftentimes in that fight, I let the policy fight become a personal fight. 180 00:08:45,633 --> 00:08:49,566 And I got involved in this whole -- the demonization of my political opponents. 181 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,166 I believe that that helped lead to this president. 182 00:08:53,166 --> 00:08:55,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: And when did you decide that was wrong? 183 00:08:55,766 --> 00:09:00,800 JOE WALSH: A year or so after President Trump got elected. 184 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,233 I'm only hesitating because, after President Trump got elected, and day by day, week by 185 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:11,133 week, month by month went by, I looked at him and I listened to him, and I thought, 186 00:09:11,133 --> 00:09:14,900 oh, my God, is that what I sounded like back in the day? 187 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:17,233 Is that what I sound like on the radio? 188 00:09:17,233 --> 00:09:21,300 In many ways, Judy, his election has been my road to Damascus moment. 189 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:26,300 And I decided a year, a year-and-a-half ago that I wasn't going to engage in the personal 190 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,033 destruction. 191 00:09:29,033 --> 00:09:31,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: You have also said that you have the right to say that blacks are lazy. 192 00:09:31,933 --> 00:09:35,333 JOE WALSH: Yes, not -- not that I believe blacks are lazy. 193 00:09:35,333 --> 00:09:37,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: But why would you even say that? 194 00:09:37,733 --> 00:09:42,400 JOE WALSH: Well, a big issue that I'm so passionate about is free speech, people being able to 195 00:09:44,833 --> 00:09:46,266 say what they want to say. 196 00:09:46,266 --> 00:09:48,300 Now, again... 197 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:52,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: But my question is, why would you even say that a group of Americans, based 198 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,466 on their race, is... 199 00:09:53,466 --> 00:09:55,333 JOE WALSH: I could have said white people are lazy. 200 00:09:55,333 --> 00:09:56,433 I could have said whatever. 201 00:09:56,433 --> 00:09:57,433 JUDY WOODRUFF: But you didn't. 202 00:09:57,433 --> 00:09:58,433 That's not what you said. 203 00:09:58,433 --> 00:10:00,466 JOE WALSH: No, I know. 204 00:10:00,466 --> 00:10:04,266 But if you -- Judy, if you go through my 40,000 tweets, I did a pretty bad or horrible job 205 00:10:04,266 --> 00:10:06,266 of offending a lot of people. 206 00:10:06,266 --> 00:10:09,900 Look, I was a radio talk show host. 207 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:14,900 I felt a big part of my job was to provoke and get people thinking about a number of 208 00:10:15,533 --> 00:10:16,766 issues. 209 00:10:16,766 --> 00:10:18,833 And, again, oftentimes, I went over the line. 210 00:10:18,833 --> 00:10:23,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you believe that any minority in this country is lazy... 211 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,900 JOE WALSH: No. 212 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:26,566 JUDY WOODRUFF: ... or should be discriminated against? 213 00:10:26,566 --> 00:10:28,300 (CROSSTALK) 214 00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:29,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: I mean, you're saying all your views have changed... 215 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,633 (CROSSTALK) 216 00:10:30,633 --> 00:10:31,766 JOE WALSH: No, no, no, no, my views haven't changed. 217 00:10:31,766 --> 00:10:33,933 And I have never believed that. 218 00:10:33,933 --> 00:10:38,833 Certainly, some things that I have said have been pretty -- pretty aggressive, but, no, 219 00:10:38,833 --> 00:10:41,300 I mean, those aren't -- those aren't my views. 220 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:45,066 That's just the way I, unfortunately, pushed the envelope too often. 221 00:10:45,066 --> 00:10:49,400 JUDY WOODRUFF: Joe Walsh, running for president, running for the Republican nomination, thank 222 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,400 you. 223 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:50,533 JOE WALSH: Judy, thank you.