WEBVTT 00:05.866 --> 00:08.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz. Judy Woodruff is away. 00:08.433 --> 00:13.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% On the "NewsHour" tonight: The surge continues. The risks of reopening grow, as cases of COVID-19 00:15.366 --> 00:19.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% spike across the country and the Centers for Disease Control faces scrutiny for its pandemic 00:19.600 --> 00:21.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% response. 00:21.600 --> 00:25.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Then: one-on-one. Senator Bernie Sanders on the race for the White House and former Vice 00:27.100 --> 00:29.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% President Biden's new plan to tackle climate change. 00:29.600 --> 00:34.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Plus: Rethinking College. The future of higher education remains in doubt for many community 00:36.066 --> 00:38.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% college students burdened by COVID-19 and structural inequality. 00:38.833 --> 00:42.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DERIONNE POLLARD, President, Montgomery College: Many of them live very fragile lives, and 00:42.866 --> 00:46.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they're oftentimes one paycheck away from disaster. 00:46.533 --> 00:50.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour." 00:50.066 --> 00:55.033 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% (BREAK) 02:20.033 --> 02:25.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: The relentless rise of COVID-19 cases has dominated another day in the summer 02:26.933 --> 02:30.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of 2020. More states are setting records for infections and deaths, and more are moving 02:31.033 --> 02:32.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to curb activities again. 02:32.533 --> 02:34.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Lisa Desjardins reports on the day's developments. 02:34.633 --> 02:39.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: In Florida, the deadliest day yet from the coronavirus, with 132 deaths, 02:39.433 --> 02:44.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% a 10 percent increase from its previous record. 02:46.333 --> 02:49.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republican Governor Ron DeSantis has defended reopening, but, today, he sounded a somber 02:50.133 --> 02:52.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% note. 02:52.233 --> 02:55.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): People are apprehensive. People are hurting. This virus has affected 02:55.333 --> 02:57.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% every Floridian's life in one way or another. 02:57.833 --> 03:02.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Florida is part of a trio of high-population hot spots, along with California 03:04.800 --> 03:07.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and Texas. Those three states reported 30,000 new virus cases yesterday alone, this as local 03:09.900 --> 03:14.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% leaders across the country are rethinking their moves to reopen. 03:14.366 --> 03:18.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Officials outside Houston in Fort Bend County, Texas, have decided school this fall will 03:18.666 --> 03:21.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% open with online learning only. 03:21.166 --> 03:23.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DR. JACQUELYN JOHNSON MINTER, Director, Fort Bend County, Texas, Health and Human Services: 03:23.200 --> 03:26.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We cannot tell this virus what we will and will not do. The virus will teach us what 03:27.800 --> 03:30.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is safe and what is prudent to do. 03:30.300 --> 03:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: In California, the same decision with even more impact. Officials in Los Angeles 03:37.266 --> 03:40.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and San Diego announced classrooms will stay closed, online learning only, when school 03:42.000 --> 03:45.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% starts. That affects more than 800,000 students. 03:45.166 --> 03:47.200 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti: 03:47.200 --> 03:50.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ERIC GARCETTI (D), Mayor of Los Angeles: We have never had as many people infected or 03:50.733 --> 03:55.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% infectious. We have never had as many recorded positive cases each day. And we have never 03:58.200 --> 04:03.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% had as many people in the hospital as there are tonight, as I speak to you, in Los Angeles. 04:04.300 --> 04:07.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: But there is divide. 04:07.500 --> 04:11.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Outside of Los Angeles, protesters for and against gathered as the Orange County School 04:11.933 --> 04:16.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Board recommended that classrooms reopen next month without masks or social distancing. 04:19.533 --> 04:23.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% On the opposite coast, the opposite direction. The city of Philadelphia took a dramatic preventative 04:24.933 --> 04:28.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% step today. Mayor Jim Kenney announced all large public events in the city are canceled 04:29.666 --> 04:32.166 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% through February of next year. 04:32.166 --> 04:34.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JIM KENNEY (D), Mayor of Philadelphia: What we are doing here is following medical advice, 04:34.866 --> 04:39.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which I think every city and state in the nation should have, and we wouldn't be in 04:39.233 --> 04:41.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the situation that we see resurging. 04:41.233 --> 04:45.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: In Louisiana, where cases are again mounting, Governor John Bel Edwards 04:45.666 --> 04:49.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% has mandated face masks for all residents in public. 04:49.733 --> 04:53.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Vice President Pence visited the state today to encourage emergency workers. 04:53.700 --> 04:56.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MIKE PENCE, Vice President of the United States: Keep up the great work, OK? 04:56.533 --> 05:00.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Meanwhile, the White House's testing czar pushed back at some retweets 05:00.266 --> 05:03.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% sent by President Trump accusing health officials of lying. 05:03.533 --> 05:06.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Admiral Brett Giroir spoke to NBC. 05:06.100 --> 05:08.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. Assistant Secretary for Health and Human Services: We may occasionally 05:08.066 --> 05:10.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% make mistakes, based on the information we have, but none of us lie. 05:10.766 --> 05:15.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Dr. Anthony Fauci, the administration's top disease expert, whom President Trump has 05:15.433 --> 05:20.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% criticized, was asked in an online forum whom Americans should trust, and back to the experts. 05:22.400 --> 05:25.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID Director: I would stick with respected medical authorities who 05:25.800 --> 05:30.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have a track record of telling the truth, who have a track record of giving information 05:33.166 --> 05:38.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and policy and recommendations based on scientific evidence and good data. 05:40.166 --> 05:44.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Fauci also alluded to some good news on the vaccine front. Researchers 05:44.466 --> 05:49.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reported that the first U.S. tests of one vaccine did, in fact, boost immune systems, 05:51.433 --> 05:54.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a positive sign, but just one of many steps and months of further tests ahead. 05:56.600 --> 06:00.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Abroad, India has seen confirmed infections explode, with 100,000 new cases in just four 06:02.033 --> 06:05.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% days. The country has the third highest global tally. 06:05.533 --> 06:10.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, in Australia, the government is imposing tougher penalties for people who violate quarantine. 06:12.433 --> 06:16.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In Queensland State, the penalty for breaking the rules will now be up to six months in 06:16.000 --> 06:17.200 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% jail. 06:17.200 --> 06:22.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins. 06:27.366 --> 06:32.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other news: The Department of Homeland Security dropped its directive 06:35.266 --> 06:40.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that international students in the U.S. attend college classes in person or leave the country. 06:42.333 --> 06:45.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The announcement came at a federal court hearing in Boston. Harvard and MIT had sued, arguing 06:47.433 --> 06:50.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the rule would force students to risk getting the coronavirus and cost the schools money. 06:50.500 --> 06:54.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% More than 200 other colleges universities supported the lawsuit. 06:54.533 --> 06:59.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Three states held primaries today, amid the COVID-19 resurgence. In Texas, Democrats were 07:02.066 --> 07:04.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% choosing a challenger to Republican John Cornyn, a three-term U.S. senator. The state did not 07:06.400 --> 07:08.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% require face masks at the polls and did not expand mail-in voting. 07:08.866 --> 07:13.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% In Alabama, former U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions faced Tommy Tuberville for a Republican 07:15.800 --> 07:18.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Senate nomination. And in Maine, Republican Senator Susan Collins awaited the winner of 07:18.666 --> 07:21.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the Democratic nominating contest. 07:21.566 --> 07:26.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% President Trump has weighed in again on racial issues confronting the nation. In a CBS News 07:26.533 --> 07:31.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% interview today, he dismissed concerns about the Confederate Flag and said -- quote -- "People 07:31.266 --> 07:36.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% love it." He also criticized a question about black Americans being disproportionately killed 07:38.233 --> 07:41.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by police by saying -- quote -- "So are white people, more white people, by the way." 07:43.500 --> 07:46.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The president also signed an order aimed at China's efforts to rein in protests in Hong 07:48.933 --> 07:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Kong. The order strips the territory of preferential financial treatment. 07:51.200 --> 07:55.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Meanwhile, China sharply criticized the U.S. for rejecting most of its territorial claims 07:55.933 --> 08:00.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in the South China Sea. Beijing accused Washington of -- quote -- "flexing its muscles" and interfering 08:01.700 --> 08:03.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% in the region. 08:03.800 --> 08:08.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Britain has reversed course, and will ban Chinese telecom giant Huawei from its next-generation 08:10.533 --> 08:12.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% mobile phone system. The U.S. had pressed for the change, and the British government 08:12.966 --> 08:14.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% announced it today. 08:14.533 --> 08:16.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Dan Hewitt of Independent Television reports. 08:16.533 --> 08:18.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% OLIVER DOWDEN, United Kingdom Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport: The U.K. 08:18.566 --> 08:22.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can no longer be confident it will be able to guarantee the future security of Huawei 08:25.266 --> 08:28.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% 5G equipment. By the time of the next election, we will have implemented in law an irreversible 08:30.566 --> 08:34.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% path for complete removal of the Huawei equipment from our 5G networks. 08:36.500 --> 08:39.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAN HEWITT: So why have the government done it? Well, Huawei may be the world's second 08:39.000 --> 08:43.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% largest supplier of mobile phones after Samsung, but the Chinese firm's equipment is also at 08:43.866 --> 08:48.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the heart of the U.K.'s mobile network. And it's their role in the newest technology, 08:48.533 --> 08:51.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% 5G, where the apparent security risks lie. 08:51.466 --> 08:56.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In May, the U.S. imposed sanctions on Huawei, who claim China could use the firm to spy 08:56.166 --> 09:00.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on them. And, today, U.K. Security Services concluded they could not guarantee that using 09:00.866 --> 09:05.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Huawei's 5G kit was safe. So the government will ban all telecoms companies from buying 09:05.800 --> 09:10.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Huawei's equipment after this year and remove all their 5G technology from the U.K. by 2027. 09:10.733 --> 09:13.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEREMY THOMPSON, Executive Vice President, Huawei U.K.: We're disappointed by the announcement 09:13.766 --> 09:18.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% today. It wasn't totally unexpected, but the severity and the speed of the implementation, 09:20.766 --> 09:25.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we think, will be a problem for the U.K. network. So it's not good news for U.K. consumers. 09:27.500 --> 09:30.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAN HEWITT: But major economies do not see you as trustworthy, and they believe you are 09:30.400 --> 09:32.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ultimately answerable to the Chinese state. 09:32.366 --> 09:36.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEREMY THOMPSON: We provide communication services to one-third of the planet. So, we 09:36.333 --> 09:38.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% are trusted. 09:38.400 --> 09:42.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAN HEWITT: Huawei will be allowed to carry on providing equipment for Britain's 3G and 09:42.066 --> 09:47.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% 4G networks, but the government admitted today that removing them from 5G would set the U.K. 09:48.933 --> 09:51.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% back two or three years, and cost the phone companies two billion pounds. 09:51.300 --> 09:54.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KAREN EGAN, Telecommunications Analyst: Ultimately, it's very likely the consumer is going to 09:54.933 --> 09:59.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pay for that. And the consumer is going to pay in terms of slower 5G rollout and kind 10:01.300 --> 10:03.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of waiting longer for the benefits that ensues from that. 10:03.366 --> 10:07.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% DAN HEWITT: While this latest government U-turn will be welcomed in Washington, attention 10:07.233 --> 10:12.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will now turn to reaction in Beijing and the diplomatic cost of pulling the plug on one 10:12.066 --> 10:13.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of its biggest names. 10:13.966 --> 10:18.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That report from Dan Hewitt of Independent Television News. 10:20.566 --> 10:23.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In Bangladesh, seasonal monsoon flooding has now left more than a million people stranded 10:25.600 --> 10:28.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or displaced. With major rivers rising, villagers in the north are using makeshift boats to 10:30.900 --> 10:34.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% get animals and belongings to higher ground. The water is flowing in from India upstream. 10:35.600 --> 10:38.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The monsoon season begins in June and runs through October. 10:38.033 --> 10:42.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Back in this country, meanwhile, the federal government carried out its first execution 10:42.400 --> 10:47.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in 17 years. Daniel Lewis Lee died by lethal injection at a federal prison in Terre Haute, 10:49.900 --> 10:53.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Indiana. He murdered three people in Arkansas in 1996 in a white supremacist plot. The execution 10:55.433 --> 10:59.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% went ahead after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a lower court's injunction overnight. 11:01.333 --> 11:04.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell pled not guilty today to luring young girls into sexual 11:06.700 --> 11:09.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. She appeared in a video hearing before a federal court in 11:09.433 --> 11:14.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% New York. The judge denied bail for Maxwell and set a new trial date for next July. Her 11:16.366 --> 11:19.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% longtime confidant Epstein was facing sex trafficking charges when he killed himself 11:19.400 --> 11:21.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% in jail last August. 11:21.866 --> 11:26.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Another federal judge in New York has rejected a settlement between Harvey Weinstein and 11:26.033 --> 11:31.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% his sexual misconduct accusers. The former Hollywood producer is serving 23 years for 11:33.000 --> 11:36.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rape and sexual assault. He had agreed to pay $19 million, but the judge ruled today 11:36.166 --> 11:41.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that the dozens of accusers are too varied to be grouped into a single settlement. 11:43.166 --> 11:46.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was hospitalized today with a possible infection. 11:48.600 --> 11:51.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% A court statement says she's at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore after having a bile duct stent 11:51.300 --> 11:56.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% cleaned out. She's expected to remain there for several days. Ginsburg has had two bouts 11:57.900 --> 12:00.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% with cancer and been hospitalized several times in recent years. 12:00.733 --> 12:05.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And on Wall Street today, stocks picked up steam after a slow start, as investors again 12:08.100 --> 12:11.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% pushed aside concerns over COVID-19. The Dow Jones industrial average gained 556 points 12:12.933 --> 12:17.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to close at 26642. The Nasdaq rose 97 points, and the S&P 500 added 42. 12:20.200 --> 12:24.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Still to come on the "NewsHour": Bernie Sanders discusses the race for the White House and 12:24.966 --> 12:29.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Biden's plan to combat climate change; the Centers for Disease Control faces increasing 12:31.966 --> 12:35.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% scrutiny for its handling of the pandemic; the struggles of community college students 12:36.633 --> 12:40.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% burdened by COVID-19 and structural inequality; plus, much more. 12:54.500 --> 12:59.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Today, former Vice President Joe Biden released new policy proposals aimed at the climate 13:03.000 --> 13:08.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% crisis. His $2 trillion plan will increase the use of renewable energy, and it includes 13:09.566 --> 13:12.733 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% a goal of a carbon pollution-free power sector by 2035. 13:12.733 --> 13:15.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Here's what the former vice president said in a speech in Delaware: 13:15.066 --> 13:18.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOSEPH BIDEN (D), Presidential Candidate: I know that climate change is a challenge 13:18.433 --> 13:23.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that's going to define our America's future. I know meeting the challenge will be a once-in-a-lifetime 13:25.433 --> 13:28.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% opportunity to jolt new life into our economy, strengthen our global leadership, protect 13:30.833 --> 13:33.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% our planet for future generations. 13:33.233 --> 13:37.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If I have the honor of being elected president, we're not just going to tinker around the 13:37.933 --> 13:42.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% edges. We're going to make historic investments that will seize the opportunity and meet this 13:44.033 --> 13:46.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% moment in history. 13:46.166 --> 13:50.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: These policy proposals were formed in part by joint task forces created to unify 13:52.266 --> 13:55.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Democratic Party. They were put together by Biden and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, 13:56.533 --> 13:58.600 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% who joins me now. 13:58.600 --> 14:00.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Senator Sanders, welcome back to the "NewsHour," and thanks for being with us. 14:00.666 --> 14:04.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I want to ask you about your team's efforts to move the Biden campaign and the Biden team 14:04.966 --> 14:08.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% platform a little bit further to the left. As we just mentioned, you did get him to move 14:08.900 --> 14:13.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% up that timeline to commit to 100 percent clean electricity. But it's not the Green 14:14.500 --> 14:17.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% New Deal. 14:17.066 --> 14:20.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% You did get him to commit to a government-run public health care option. But it's not Medicare 14:20.333 --> 14:23.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% for all. So, those were key campaign issues for you. 14:23.566 --> 14:28.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you think these policies are enough for your backers to want to back Biden? 14:28.266 --> 14:32.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, given that the alternative is Donald Trump, the most 14:32.633 --> 14:36.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% dangerous president in the history of this country, I'm absolutely confident that those 14:36.466 --> 14:41.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% proposals are not only a significant step forward, but are going to win widespread support 14:42.566 --> 14:45.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% from the progressive community. 14:45.700 --> 14:50.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What Joe Biden understands is that, in order to win this election -- and I'm going to do 14:52.733 --> 14:55.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% everything I can to see that he does win it - - we're going to need a large voter turnout. 14:55.466 --> 15:00.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And to get a large voter turnout, there has to be energy and excitement among younger 15:00.300 --> 15:05.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people, among working-class people, among people who very often who do not vote, for 15:05.200 --> 15:07.233 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% a variety of reasons. 15:07.233 --> 15:11.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think what our task force has managed to do is to reach compromises which are going 15:14.100 --> 15:17.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to bring a lot more excitement to a sector of the voting population that was less enthusiastic 15:18.266 --> 15:20.333 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% about Joe. 15:20.333 --> 15:23.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Can I ask you, Senator, are you worried those compromises could temper some 15:23.033 --> 15:26.366 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of that excitement or enthusiasm that you say Mr. Biden needs? 15:26.366 --> 15:31.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, there's already been some criticism, even from your former national press secretary, 15:31.100 --> 15:35.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% who said that the Biden team was showing -- quote - - "mocking disrespect" for voters with these 15:35.533 --> 15:37.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% kinds of plans. 15:37.600 --> 15:40.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What do you say to people who have concerns that these plans don't go far enough? 15:40.233 --> 15:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I will tell you, I don't think they go far enough. 15:43.300 --> 15:48.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And the people who are on representing the progressive community on the task forces don't 15:50.366 --> 15:53.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% think these proposals go far enough. But the answer is to elect Joe Biden, and then to 15:55.633 --> 16:00.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% strengthen our grassroots movement to make sure that, in all respects, the environment, 16:02.500 --> 16:06.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the economy, health care, we have a government that represents all of us, and not just the 16:07.100 --> 16:09.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% few. 16:09.166 --> 16:12.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I think it is very hard for anybody to seriously look at these proposals, whether 16:12.766 --> 16:16.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it is on health care, whether it's on the environment or climate change, whether it's 16:16.466 --> 16:21.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on education, whether it's in the economy, and not to see that, if these proposals were 16:23.333 --> 16:27.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to be implemented, Joe Biden would be the most progressive president since FDR. 16:29.400 --> 16:32.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It's a significant step forward, but, in truth, it's not all that I would like. 16:32.500 --> 16:37.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, as you know, during this pandemic, voters' top issues have shifted 16:37.333 --> 16:41.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% somewhat. Things like health care, immigration, even climate change have moved further down 16:41.533 --> 16:46.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% the list. Obviously, the coronavirus and the pandemic response and the economy have moved 16:46.166 --> 16:48.066 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% to the top. 16:48.066 --> 16:51.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, as Congress is now considering another spending plan, I want to ask you, how big 16:51.166 --> 16:55.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% do you think it should be? And what do you say to people who are concerned that, the 16:55.533 --> 16:59.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% bigger that response gets, the more it's going to push America into the red? 16:59.433 --> 17:03.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Look, this is what I say. And that is that we are living in an 17:03.766 --> 17:06.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% unprecedented moment in American history. 17:06.833 --> 17:11.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have a pandemic, because -- and, because of Trump's ineptitude and downplaying this 17:13.766 --> 17:18.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pandemic from day one, is getting worse in many states in this country; 135,000 people 17:20.366 --> 17:23.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% have already died. And that number will grow in months to come. 17:23.400 --> 17:28.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have an economy which has lost tens of millions of jobs. Today in Vermont and throughout 17:30.500 --> 17:34.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% this country, people are hungry. By the millions, people are worried about being evicted. People 17:35.400 --> 17:38.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in many cases have lost their health insurance. 17:38.033 --> 17:43.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have got to stand up and represent the working families of this country, who are 17:44.800 --> 17:48.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% seeing today more desperation than they have seen in many, many decades. 17:50.466 --> 17:54.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And the alternative to not becoming aggressive is to see, in my view, not only unbelievable 17:57.133 --> 18:02.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% human suffering, but to see this economy head straightforward into a Great Depression. 18:02.066 --> 18:05.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, to that point, how big do you think that that next spending plan 18:05.933 --> 18:07.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% should be, then? 18:07.966 --> 18:11.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, the House passed its bill for $3 trillion. And I think the 18:13.233 --> 18:16.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Senate should do at least as much. 18:16.000 --> 18:21.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We are seeing now unprecedented suffering in this country. We have tens of millions 18:22.900 --> 18:25.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of people who've lost their jobs. Many have lost their health care. There are people in 18:25.133 --> 18:30.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% my state of Vermont, throughout this country who today are worried about feeding their 18:32.000 --> 18:34.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% families. People are worried about being evicted from their homes. 18:34.733 --> 18:39.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Now is the time 18:40.600 --> 18:42.700 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% to stand with working families. 18:42.700 --> 18:46.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And let me just say this. If we don't do that, not only are we going to see an increase in 18:48.666 --> 18:52.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% suffering and death. What we're also going to see is this country plunging, in my view, 18:53.900 --> 18:56.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% into the worst economic decline since the Great Depression. 18:56.800 --> 18:58.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, less than a minute left. 18:58.833 --> 19:02.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I have to ask you. As we look back to 2016, it's worth pointing out that most of your 19:02.433 --> 19:07.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% supporters back then did end up voting for Hillary Clinton, but more than a quarter did 19:07.366 --> 19:11.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not. In fact, I met many of them even earlier this primary season who described themselves 19:11.266 --> 19:14.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as Bernie or bust, right? They weren't sure that they were going to vote for the Democratic 19:14.700 --> 19:16.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% nominee if it wasn't you. 19:16.766 --> 19:21.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I wonder, do you think now that selecting a running mate who is more progressive, like 19:21.200 --> 19:25.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Elizabeth Warren, would help Mr. Biden to win over some of those supporters? 19:25.566 --> 19:30.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I think that the Biden campaign, they're very good politicians. 19:33.000 --> 19:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think they understand that they need a vice president who not only will have the 19:36.633 --> 19:41.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right politics for Joe Biden, but as somebody he is personally compatible with. I think, 19:43.633 --> 19:46.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% when you're dealing with the vice president, there has got to be a lot of personal chemistry. 19:46.300 --> 19:50.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that's a decision, I'm sure, that Joe and his team are looking very hard at right 19:50.900 --> 19:52.800 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% now. 19:52.800 --> 19:54.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: That is Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders joining us tonight. 19:54.233 --> 19:57.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thank you so much for your time, sir. 19:57.266 --> 20:02.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: My pleasure. Thank you. 20:04.400 --> 20:09.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Traditionally, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or the 20:12.633 --> 20:17.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CDC, is seen as the leading government agency to monitor public health during an epidemic 20:17.400 --> 20:20.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and to convey key information to the larger public. 20:20.000 --> 20:25.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Historically, the CDC is not very political. But, in many ways, its role has been very 20:25.866 --> 20:27.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% different during this pandemic. 20:27.900 --> 20:31.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As William Brangham tells us now, four former directors of the agency say, the CDC's voice 20:32.966 --> 20:35.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% has been muted for political reasons. 20:35.033 --> 20:38.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amna, these four former directors these are men who have served in 20:38.233 --> 20:43.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republican and Democratic administrations just issued an editorial in The Washington 20:43.700 --> 20:45.766 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Post. 20:45.766 --> 20:49.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And they argued that the agency's voice and crucial guidance has been sidelined. 20:51.466 --> 20:54.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They wrote -- quote -- "We're seeing the terrible effect of undermining the CDC play out in 20:56.566 --> 21:01.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% our population. Willful disregard for public health guidelines is, unsurprisingly, leading 21:02.133 --> 21:05.866 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to a sharp rise in infections and deaths." 21:05.866 --> 21:10.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of those former directors is joining me now. Dr. Thomas Besser -- Richard Besser is 21:13.400 --> 21:16.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which we should say is a funder of the "NewsHour." 21:17.900 --> 21:20.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Dr. Besser, thank you very much for being here. 21:20.566 --> 21:25.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The headline of your editorial said: "We ran the CDC. No president ever politicized its 21:27.566 --> 21:29.900 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% science the way Trump has." 21:29.900 --> 21:31.866 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% How has he done so? 21:31.866 --> 21:33.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DR. RICHARD BESSER, Former Acting Director, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: 21:33.500 --> 21:36.766 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Well you know, what we're seeing, William, is a clash of messages. 21:36.766 --> 21:41.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We hear every public health leader in the nation talking about how serious this pandemic 21:41.633 --> 21:46.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is, talking about the steps we need to take as individuals and as a nation to ensure that 21:47.766 --> 21:51.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% we minimize the damage to people's lives. 21:51.166 --> 21:56.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then we hear politicians, starting at the White House, talk about how there's nothing 21:58.600 --> 22:01.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to worry about, how public health is overplaying this. And the injection of politics into a 22:03.400 --> 22:07.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% public health response is extremely dangerous for the nation. 22:07.333 --> 22:12.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CDC is the nation's public health agency. And their guidance informs what states do, 22:12.300 --> 22:17.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what local public health does. By injecting politics into it and undermining the trust 22:18.933 --> 22:23.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% that we need to have in that guidance, it puts people's lives at risk. 22:23.200 --> 22:28.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And what are some of the real-world effects of that politicizing of 22:28.800 --> 22:30.233 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% the science? 22:30.233 --> 22:32.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, a number of things. 22:32.300 --> 22:36.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The biggest challenge I'm seeing for CDC is that they're not having daily press conferences. 22:36.966 --> 22:41.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They're not able to talk to the public through the media about what they're doing and what 22:41.233 --> 22:43.300 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% they're learning. 22:43.300 --> 22:47.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, months ago, CDC talked about masks and the importance of health care workers wearing 22:47.200 --> 22:51.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% masks, but talked about the general public not needing to wear masks. But there's been 22:51.500 --> 22:56.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% a lot of learning that's gone on in every public health response. I ran emergency response 22:56.433 --> 22:59.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% at CDC for four years. 22:59.533 --> 23:04.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And during every response, what you don't know early on far outweighs what you do know. 23:05.900 --> 23:09.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And you use science to drive the direction of your response. 23:09.233 --> 23:13.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, as CDC learned more, as we learned more from other nations and what was successful, 23:13.900 --> 23:18.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% CDC changed their guidance. They recommend that everyone in America wear a mask. And 23:18.066 --> 23:22.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the reason is because a lot of people can transmit this infection before they even know 23:22.666 --> 23:26.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they're sick. So, by wearing a mask, you can cut down on that. 23:26.100 --> 23:31.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Well, the CDC had no opportunity to make that case to the public. So, it looked like a total 23:33.100 --> 23:36.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% flip-flop. Without bringing the public along, there's no way to build the trust that is 23:37.600 --> 23:39.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% absolutely essential during a response. 23:39.700 --> 23:44.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As I quoted, you write that the willful disregard of scientific expertise 23:45.733 --> 23:49.133 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is leading to increasing cases and deaths. 23:49.133 --> 23:54.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you really believe that this interference has cost American lives, that -- people who 23:55.600 --> 23:58.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% would have survived had this interference not occurred? 23:58.000 --> 24:00.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% DR. RICHARD BESSER: I do. I do. 24:00.433 --> 24:05.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I also think that that's part of the reason we're seeing such disparate impact on black 24:07.466 --> 24:10.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans, so many of whom are essential workers. 24:10.633 --> 24:15.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Well, if you're an essential worker, and the people you're having contact with aren't wearing 24:15.333 --> 24:19.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% masks because they don't believe that there's any value to it, you're putting those essential 24:19.633 --> 24:22.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% workers at risk. 24:22.133 --> 24:24.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And if -- those essential workers, maybe their health is fine, and they're going to do well 24:24.533 --> 24:29.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with this infection. But higher proportions of black Americans, Latino Americans live 24:29.300 --> 24:33.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in multigenerational households. So they're coming home, and maybe they will give this 24:33.100 --> 24:37.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% infection to somebody who won't handle it so well. That costs lives. 24:37.400 --> 24:42.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The fact that we're seeing so many young people around the nation going back to their social 24:44.333 --> 24:47.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% lives, feeling like there's nothing to worry about here, that is a total undercut of what 24:50.066 --> 24:52.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% public health science is saying to do. 24:52.100 --> 24:56.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And we need our public health scientists and our political leaders to be on the same page. 24:56.666 --> 24:59.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And it needs to be the page of science. 24:59.200 --> 25:04.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, as you well know from your time running the agency, the CDC 25:04.200 --> 25:08.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has to walk this very fine line. It has to be close enough to an administration so that 25:08.600 --> 25:13.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their advice is taken, but it also has to be separate enough so that the public sees 25:15.033 --> 25:18.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% them as a neutral arbiter of public health information. 25:18.600 --> 25:23.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Do you think, given how grave you're describing this circumstance, that the CDC director, 25:25.533 --> 25:28.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Robert Redfield, should have stepped forward more forcefully and said, no, I don't think 25:30.266 --> 25:32.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% we're on the right path, we need to do differently? 25:32.800 --> 25:37.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, I think every leader, every CDC director has to -- has to know what 25:39.300 --> 25:44.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their line in the sand is, and recognize that if they're -- if they're forced to step over 25:45.400 --> 25:47.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that, that they're going to take an action. 25:47.333 --> 25:51.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It is absolutely essential that the public trusts the information coming from the CDC, 25:53.733 --> 25:57.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that it's the best evidence. Whenever CDC puts through -- puts a guidance forward, it 25:57.733 --> 26:02.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% goes through clearance. It's shared with other agencies. It's shared with the White House. 26:02.266 --> 26:07.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That's where you have science and policy interacting, so that what goes forward can be going forward 26:09.200 --> 26:13.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% with a unified front. But, after guidance comes out, it's been unprecedented to see 26:15.633 --> 26:18.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% political leaders undercutting the guidance, telling people they don't need to follow it, 26:18.933 --> 26:21.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that it's -- that it's overdone, that it's too expensive. 26:21.900 --> 26:26.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The idea that we can open our schools this fall if we have not -- if we don't have this 26:26.900 --> 26:31.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% under control and if we're not providing schools with what they need to -- so that our children 26:31.733 --> 26:36.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are safe and staff are safe and teachers are safe, this is something that we can do as 26:36.400 --> 26:40.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a nation, but it has to be driven by that road map that public health is laying out 26:40.833 --> 26:42.966 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% so clearly. 26:42.966 --> 26:46.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, as you know, the CDC has had a few missteps. Their initial 26:48.800 --> 26:52.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% viral test malfunctioned. They seemed for a period of time to be double-counting both 26:53.166 --> 26:55.666 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% viral tests and antibody tests. 26:55.666 --> 27:00.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Do you think that some of those missteps might have added to the sort of ammunition that 27:01.833 --> 27:03.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% is being used to shoot at them now? 27:03.333 --> 27:05.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, it's definitely ammunition. 27:05.433 --> 27:10.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I worked at CDC for 13 years and led emergency response for four. There was never a response 27:13.033 --> 27:17.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% effort that we had where we didn't make mistakes. But we had the opportunity every day to talk 27:17.533 --> 27:21.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to the public and say, here's something we tried. We thought this was the right way to 27:21.866 --> 27:25.000 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% go. Here's -- it didn't work. Here's what we learned from that. 27:25.000 --> 27:30.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The CDC doesn't have that opportunity here. So, there's so much conversation about old 27:30.733 --> 27:32.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% mistakes that CDC made. 27:32.766 --> 27:37.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If CDC were out front, and were talking to the press every day -- one of the things the 27:37.233 --> 27:42.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% press does, it asks the tough questions and makes sure that CDC doesn't have blind spots 27:44.266 --> 27:46.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% around things they should be paying attention to. They're not getting that. 27:46.433 --> 27:50.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so not only are they not able to share and build trust. Their response is not as 27:50.933 --> 27:53.333 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% good because they're not interacting directly. 27:53.333 --> 27:58.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Dr. Richard Besser, CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation 28:00.366 --> 28:03.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and former acting director of the CDC, thank you very, very much for your time. 28:05.166 --> 28:10.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DR. RICHARD BESSER: Thank you, William. 28:15.033 --> 28:20.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Now the first in a special series of reports about Rethinking College during 28:23.200 --> 28:25.333 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% COVID. 28:25.333 --> 28:28.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Many students, families and, of course, colleges and universities are indeed rethinking about 28:28.533 --> 28:32.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what this fall will be like, as the pandemic continues to dramatically reshape the higher 28:32.933 --> 28:34.966 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% education landscape. 28:34.966 --> 28:39.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Our series begins with community colleges, which educate about 40 percent of undergraduates 28:39.233 --> 28:44.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in the U.S. Many were already stretched thin before the pandemic, but surveys indicate 28:45.833 --> 28:49.366 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% enrollment is likely to increase as students and workers shift plans. 28:51.333 --> 28:53.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Correspondent Hari Sreenivasan looks at how one community college and its students are 28:53.733 --> 28:56.166 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% coping. 28:56.166 --> 28:59.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Maryland's Montgomery College, just outside D.C., is eerily quiet these days. 29:01.800 --> 29:05.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% During a typical July, the school's three campuses would be bustling with summer school 29:05.633 --> 29:07.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% students. 29:07.633 --> 29:10.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But like so many colleges and universities around the country, learning here has shifted 29:10.566 --> 29:15.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% from classrooms and labs to bedrooms and living rooms. 29:19.300 --> 29:23.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Montgomery College is one of the country's most diverse community colleges. It's nestled 29:23.700 --> 29:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in a county with pockets of poverty and wealth. About 55,000 students ordinarily attend for 29:30.266 --> 29:33.566 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% accredited degrees and other programs like work force development. 29:33.566 --> 29:37.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The school was one of the first in the area to announce it will continue remote learning 29:37.466 --> 29:42.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in the fall with a limited number of small lab classes. It's too early to know how many 29:44.400 --> 29:46.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will attend next year, but the school is already seeing an uptick in interest. 29:46.666 --> 29:49.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DERIONNE POLLARD, President, Montgomery College: If I look at my enrollment for summer, we 29:49.300 --> 29:54.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will probably be about 20 percent up in terms of where we were this time last year. 29:54.233 --> 29:56.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: DeRionne Pollard is president of the college. 29:56.600 --> 30:00.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She says, as the school gears up for increased enrollment, she's staying focused on current 30:00.866 --> 30:03.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% students, many of whom were struggling before the pandemic. 30:03.800 --> 30:08.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DERIONNE POLLARD: So, our students oftentimes are hungry. They are taking care of multiple 30:10.700 --> 30:15.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% generations at any given time. They're trying to figure out how to get to school. 30:17.400 --> 30:21.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Many of them live very fragile lives, and they're oftentimes one paycheck away from 30:22.600 --> 30:24.666 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% disaster. 30:24.666 --> 30:27.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: In March, that disaster struck when businesses began to close. 30:27.366 --> 30:31.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Many students and their families lost jobs, and some struggled with the move to online 30:31.833 --> 30:36.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% learning. That was the case for 19-year-old graphic design major Kayla Savoy. She says 30:38.733 --> 30:41.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she enjoys creating and learning about art in her classes, but technology issues and 30:41.933 --> 30:45.233 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% distractions at home made it difficult to stay focused on school. 30:45.233 --> 30:50.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KAYLA SAVOY, College Student: The Wi-Fi, absolutely atrocious at my house. There's technically 30:50.066 --> 30:54.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% five or six of us all living at once. You have a toddler screaming about "Paw Patrol" 30:54.933 --> 30:57.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the background while your 8:00 a.m. class is going on. 30:57.900 --> 31:02.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Savoy is paying her own way through school and says she managed to 31:02.233 --> 31:06.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% get straight A's last semester. But she's been struggling to find work the last few 31:06.400 --> 31:10.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% months, and it's been hard to pay for things like gas and food. 31:10.500 --> 31:14.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% On top of those concerns, she and many of her classmates have been deeply impacted by 31:14.833 --> 31:16.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% recent events surrounding racial inequities. 31:16.833 --> 31:19.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KAYLA SAVOY: I got to this point where I was like, I don't know how I'm going to be able 31:19.933 --> 31:24.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to juggle more than I already have. And then I turn around, and I see more senseless killings 31:25.533 --> 31:27.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of my people. 31:27.566 --> 31:31.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, as a black woman, I fear for so many people that are important in my life. It becomes 31:31.233 --> 31:36.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just an overwhelming feeling of, what can I do? Can I not study for classes? Can I not 31:37.433 --> 31:40.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% go to the store without my life being in danger? 31:40.266 --> 31:44.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Montgomery College has been trying to help students cope with many of 31:44.333 --> 31:49.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% these stresses. The school has distributed more than $3.5 million in emergency aid, money 31:51.333 --> 31:55.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from the federal CARES Act, private donors, established emergency funds, and $400,000 31:56.800 --> 32:00.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the school saved from canceled end-of-the-year ceremonies. 32:00.433 --> 32:05.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Early on, local companies donated laptops, and free food was handed out to students and 32:05.200 --> 32:09.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the surrounding community, where unemployment has jumped up in recent months to nearly 9 32:09.766 --> 32:11.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% percent. 32:11.733 --> 32:13.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DERIONNE POLLARD: Our students, they don't pop in for eight or nine months out of the 32:13.733 --> 32:18.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% year, live in a residence hall, and they go back to where they came from. They live here. 32:18.233 --> 32:20.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They work here. They raise families here. 32:20.600 --> 32:25.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So, as a result of that, the wealth and health of our community is a direct reflection of 32:27.600 --> 32:31.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the health of our community college, and vice versa. There's a mutuality to that that demands 32:32.666 --> 32:34.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we rise up in these moments. 32:34.666 --> 32:39.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Pollard says this moment also requires thoughtful engagement and action 32:40.700 --> 32:44.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% by the school and academia in general to address systemic racism. 32:44.433 --> 32:49.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% During open Zoom forums called Let's Talk, faculty and staff have been facilitating candid 32:49.166 --> 32:51.266 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% conversations. 32:51.266 --> 32:53.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ANDRAE BROWN, Professor, Montgomery College: We're literally watching the murder of people 32:53.866 --> 32:58.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% consistently on television over and over and over again. That's not only dehumanizing to 33:03.133 --> 33:06.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the person, but it desensitizes us to what the value of that life is. 33:06.500 --> 33:11.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: And some faculty, like anthropology adjunct Professor Amy Carattini are encouraging 33:11.100 --> 33:13.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% students to explore race and ethnicity in new ways. 33:13.800 --> 33:17.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Amy Carattini, Professor, Montgomery College: I think it's just so important to make students 33:17.700 --> 33:22.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% feel comfortable to talk about these issues. I think there's a lot of nervousness or fear 33:24.166 --> 33:26.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. 33:26.333 --> 33:30.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: But outside of the classroom, some wonder how well Montgomery College and 33:30.933 --> 33:34.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% other community colleges will be able to meet the challenges of these times. 33:34.866 --> 33:37.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% SARA GOLDRICK-RAB, Temple University: Community colleges have been systematically defunded 33:37.900 --> 33:42.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for years, and they were already in a tough situation when it came to resources, when 33:42.800 --> 33:47.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it came to instructional supports, when it came to being ready to serve these large numbers 33:47.466 --> 33:49.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of students. 33:49.433 --> 33:52.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Temple University's Sara Goldrick-Rab is a professor of sociology and 33:52.133 --> 33:56.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% medicine. She and her colleagues recently released a survey that found nearly three 33:56.066 --> 34:01.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in five college students across the country have experienced basic needs insecurity during 34:01.800 --> 34:03.866 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% the pandemic. 34:03.866 --> 34:07.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% She says lack of funding can lead to staff shortages and limited course offerings, and 34:07.766 --> 34:12.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the current job market may make it more difficult for students to get across the finish line. 34:12.333 --> 34:17.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SARA GOLDRICK-RAB: These students are at very high risk of going to college for all the 34:17.166 --> 34:22.166 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% right reasons, and leaving because they had very little choice. 34:24.133 --> 34:26.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% People used to work their way through college in the 1970s and the 1980s. They have always 34:26.766 --> 34:31.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% done that. But now work has literally disappeared. This is not a temporary challenge, when these 34:33.800 --> 34:37.766 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% people, if they drop out of college, they're going to struggle for the next 10 to 15 years, 34:37.766 --> 34:39.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% at least, to repay the debt that they owe. 34:39.900 --> 34:43.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Montgomery College President Pollard has those issues and others on her 34:43.933 --> 34:47.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% plate as she steers the college into what could be a rocky fall. 34:47.500 --> 34:51.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DERIONNE POLLARD: If students do come to us and we know, they will need financial aid. 34:51.400 --> 34:55.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We know that the state and even the federal government may not be able to provide as much, 34:55.500 --> 34:58.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because they're trying to raise an economy back up. 34:58.966 --> 35:03.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We know that there's a lot of uncertainty. But here's the thing about it. We have been 35:03.033 --> 35:08.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% here before. Community colleges have a deep competency in trying to respond to these types 35:09.000 --> 35:11.433 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% of environments. 35:11.433 --> 35:14.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Fifty-five thousand students, more or less, will log into their online classes 35:14.133 --> 35:19.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% on August 31, when the fall semester begins, but the school's campuses will remain quiet 35:20.000 --> 35:21.233 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% for the foreseeable future. 35:21.233 --> 35:25.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Hari Sreenivasan. 35:33.200 --> 35:38.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: From landmark decisions on immigration and LGBTQ protections, to virtual oral arguments 35:43.533 --> 35:48.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% amid the pandemic, the Supreme Court concluded a term last week that is certainly one for 35:48.200 --> 35:50.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% the history books. 35:50.266 --> 35:54.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We take a deeper look into the Roberts court and its blockbuster term with Marcia Coyle, 35:54.233 --> 35:59.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% chief Washington correspondent for "The National Law Journal," Paul Clement, former U.S. solicitor 36:01.900 --> 36:04.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% general during the George W. Bush administration. And Neal Katyal, he served as the acting solicitor 36:04.366 --> 36:06.733 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% general under President Obama. 36:06.733 --> 36:09.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Welcome to you all. And thank you for being here. 36:09.233 --> 36:12.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Neal and Paul, we should point out, between the two of you, you have argued almost 150 36:12.766 --> 36:14.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% cases before the court. 36:14.833 --> 36:18.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Neal, I'm going to start with you, because I want to get a sense of how you're looking 36:18.400 --> 36:20.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% back on this term. 36:20.533 --> 36:24.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Earlier in June, there was a sense that this is a court that's leaning actually quite liberal. 36:24.233 --> 36:28.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% There, within a couple weeks, they ruled workers can't be fired for being gay or transgender. 36:28.700 --> 36:33.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% They stopped President Trump's effort to end DACA. And they struck down a restrictive abortion 36:34.433 --> 36:36.433 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% law in Louisiana. 36:36.433 --> 36:39.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% How did you see that string of rulings? Was that an outright win for progressives? 36:41.933 --> 36:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NEAL KATYAL, Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General: Well, I agree that there have been 36:43.900 --> 36:46.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% an outright number of wins that progressives have had, the tax returns cases, DACA, the 36:48.000 --> 36:51.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% LGBT cases, the Louisiana abortion case. 36:51.300 --> 36:55.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In all of them, Donald Trump lost. And I'm not aware of another president, outside of 36:55.966 --> 37:00.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Richard Nixon, in our lifetimes and perhaps even beyond who has fared worse at the Supreme 37:00.600 --> 37:02.533 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Court. 37:02.533 --> 37:06.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I really think of it that way, is much more about serious losses for Trump than I 37:06.133 --> 37:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% do about the court turning progressive or liberal, which I don't think is true. 37:09.900 --> 37:14.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Paul and I both know this. We both represented presidents in the Supreme Court. It's pretty 37:17.200 --> 37:18.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% hard to lose if you're representing the president. You got to kind of try. It's like failing 37:18.933 --> 37:20.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a class at Yale. You got to work at it. 37:20.966 --> 37:24.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, here, they have managed to lose a lot. And I don't think it's really as much the 37:24.466 --> 37:29.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% fault of the lawyers, but really outlandish positions by the Trump administration and 37:30.866 --> 37:32.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% outlandish process by the Trump administration. 37:32.966 --> 37:36.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so what look like liberal results are really just kind of basic rule of law results. 37:38.466 --> 37:42.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And I will point you in particular to the tax returns cases, in which President Trump's 37:42.166 --> 37:46.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% own appointees totally rejected his position of absolute immunity. 37:46.533 --> 37:48.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Paul, what's your take on that? 37:48.500 --> 37:51.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% When you look at those particular string of rulings, how did you assess them? 37:51.400 --> 37:54.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% PAUL CLEMENT, Former U.S. Solicitor General: Well, I think that, on a number of these cases, 37:54.633 --> 37:59.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you really do have to look at the context of what the court is specifically wrestling 37:59.200 --> 38:01.300 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% with. 38:01.300 --> 38:05.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Those tax return cases were very unprecedented cases. And I think, in some respects, it is 38:07.266 --> 38:10.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not that unprecedented for a president to lose big, even with his own nominees, when 38:12.966 --> 38:17.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it comes to executive power. President Clinton sort of famously lost Clinton against Jones 38:18.633 --> 38:23.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% 9-0 and lost two of his nominees along the way in that case. 38:25.500 --> 38:28.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So I do think it really depends a lot on the nature of the particular issues. And I think 38:30.600 --> 38:33.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that, if you look two weeks ago, before the end of the term, it was looking quite liberal. 38:33.800 --> 38:38.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, by the end of the term, there were a number of religious liberty cases in particular 38:40.233 --> 38:42.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that kind of made it a much more nuanced story in the end. 38:42.133 --> 38:44.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: And I want to get to those in more detail in just a second. 38:44.933 --> 38:49.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Before we do though, Marcia, I have to ask you. When you look at the abortion decision, 38:49.833 --> 38:53.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for example, in that case, there were four liberal justices who voted to strike down 38:53.833 --> 38:57.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the law. And it was Chief Justice John Roberts who sided with them. 38:57.633 --> 39:01.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Talk to me a little bit about the role that Roberts has played on this court. And, at 39:01.533 --> 39:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the same time, we should mention he had a very full plate. He was also presiding over 39:04.800 --> 39:06.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the impeachment proceedings. 39:06.866 --> 39:08.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE, "The National Law Journal": That's right, Amna. It was an extraordinary 39:08.900 --> 39:10.900 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% term on many levels. 39:10.900 --> 39:15.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, as far as John Roberts goes, I will take the maybe 30,000-mile view of the term and 39:17.700 --> 39:22.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% say that this was a term that began with a number of cases that were fraught with political 39:24.500 --> 39:29.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and partisan implications. And I think the Supreme Court emerged unscathed by or untarnished 39:33.733 --> 39:37.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% by either of those because of John Roberts. 39:37.200 --> 39:42.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He was able, by forming cross-ideological majorities, to steer the court through those 39:44.166 --> 39:48.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% cases, and to sort of confirm what he has been trying to tell the public in some very 39:50.233 --> 39:55.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% rare public statements, that the court is an independent institution. 39:55.100 --> 40:00.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Certainly, a number of conservatives did hope that, with the confirmation of Justices Kavanaugh 40:02.066 --> 40:06.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and Gorsuch, that there would be a rock-solid conservative majority on the court. And that 40:08.300 --> 40:10.400 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% is not the case. 40:10.400 --> 40:15.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It really does depend often on the nature of the cases that come before them. But I 40:17.400 --> 40:20.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really think, if you wanted to look at winners and losers in the term that just ended, you 40:22.666 --> 40:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% would have to say that the winner was the U.S. Supreme Court, because it did emerge 40:28.633 --> 40:32.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% unscathed from so many of those cases that could have painted -- if there had been 5-4 40:34.800 --> 40:39.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% decisions in the normal ideological split, it could have been painted as a partisan institution. 40:41.466 --> 40:43.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Paul, I want to get back to some of those cases you mentioned involving 40:43.700 --> 40:46.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% religious freedom, because there were a few. 40:46.433 --> 40:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And there seemed to be somewhat of a trend when it came to how those went. There was 40:50.266 --> 40:54.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% one shielding religious schools from lawsuits on employment discrimination, another one 40:54.833 --> 40:59.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% upholding the Trump administration rule that employers can deny contraceptive coverage 40:59.833 --> 41:01.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% on religious or moral grounds. 41:01.933 --> 41:05.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% When you look at the body of those decisions, what was the message you think the court was 41:05.366 --> 41:07.900 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% sending? 41:07.900 --> 41:11.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% PAUL CLEMENT: Well, I think adherence of religion and people trying to vindicate rights to religious 41:11.300 --> 41:15.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% liberty did incredibly well in all of those cases. 41:15.166 --> 41:20.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And in every one of those cases, they got the vote of Chief Justice Roberts. Some of 41:22.300 --> 41:25.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% those cases were more in the 7-2 department than the 5-4 decision. One of the most consequential, 41:27.500 --> 41:31.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Espinoza case about school choice and the role of state constitutions in limiting 41:33.533 --> 41:38.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% school choice, I think was a 5-4 decision and a big victory for religious liberty. 41:40.500 --> 41:43.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, I do think those cases underscore that John Roberts is not a liberal or even a moderate 41:45.700 --> 41:49.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% when it comes to some issues. And I think it really depends on the nature of the issues 41:49.900 --> 41:52.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that come before the court in a particular term. 41:52.566 --> 41:56.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Neal, what about you? When you look at those specific cases involving this 41:56.466 --> 41:59.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% one issue of religious freedom, which we know is very important to the Trump administration, 41:59.600 --> 42:01.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% how do you look back on this term? 42:01.633 --> 42:06.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NEAL KATYAL: Well, I think Paul's absolutely right. The religious freedom cases show the 42:07.500 --> 42:09.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% conservative, so-called conservatives won a lot. 42:09.600 --> 42:12.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I agree with him that you have to look to the overall context. It's just the number 42:12.700 --> 42:17.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of cases here in which the Trump administration position lost is pretty extraordinary. 42:19.733 --> 42:24.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so Marcia puts it better than me when she says, the Supreme Court is the winner 42:24.133 --> 42:29.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in last term. I would say a footnote to that is, I think the rule of law was also a winner. 42:30.666 --> 42:33.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% I mean, our country is so bitterly politically divided right now. 42:33.533 --> 42:38.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the Supreme Court, really, and because of Chief Justice Roberts' ability to steer 42:38.200 --> 42:43.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the court, really points to a different way, a way of mutual respect, a way in which we 42:45.200 --> 42:48.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can listen to those from the other side and be the -- forge agreements with them. 42:50.333 --> 42:52.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It was really, I think, a majestic thing to behold. And it's not a liberal thing. And 42:52.900 --> 42:57.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I don't think the chief justice is some liberal. The best evidence of that is, at 2:00 a.m. 42:57.833 --> 43:02.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this morning, he cast the fifth vote to resume the federal death penalty, when the litigants 43:02.533 --> 43:05.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% didn't even have a chance to brief and argue all their challenges. 43:05.466 --> 43:10.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So I think everyone should be careful when they use liberal or conservative terms with 43:10.366 --> 43:12.533 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% respect to the court. 43:12.533 --> 43:15.766 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Marcia, as we reported earlier, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is back in the hospital. 43:15.766 --> 43:20.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Obviously, there have been some health concerns among the Supreme Court justices. 43:20.033 --> 43:24.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As you look ahead to the next term, tell me a little bit about how we should be thinking 43:24.033 --> 43:28.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% about some of the cases ahead and some of the general concerns about the health of those 43:28.566 --> 43:30.600 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% justices. 43:30.600 --> 43:34.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: Well, I think, Amna, when you look at the ages of some of the justices, 43:36.466 --> 43:39.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you have Justice Ginsburg now 86, I believe. You have Justice Breyer 81. Several other 43:42.033 --> 43:47.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% justices are over 65 and are in that age group that is most vulnerable to the COVID-19 virus, 43:50.033 --> 43:55.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that you have to take pause and wonder if, next term, there could be some changes in 43:57.633 --> 44:01.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the court's personnel on the bench. 44:01.166 --> 44:06.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So that may very well be something to watch closely. I know that the Trump administration 44:08.200 --> 44:12.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is hoping once again to make the court an issue in the presidential election. 44:12.833 --> 44:17.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Right now, though, I don't think that is going to figure into how the justices deliberate 44:19.866 --> 44:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at all. Don't count Justice Ginsburg out. She is -- has been remarkably resilient. 44:25.900 --> 44:27.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: It is a court to watch. 44:27.933 --> 44:31.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, of course, I'm sure we all wish Justice Ginsburg a speedy recovery. 44:31.766 --> 44:35.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That is Marcia Coyle, Neal Katyal, and Paul Clement. 44:35.233 --> 44:37.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Thanks so much for being with us. 44:37.300 --> 44:41.966 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% MARCIA COYLE: My pleasure. 44:41.966 --> 44:46.666 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% PAUL CLEMENT: Thank you. 44:46.666 --> 44:51.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% NEAL KATYAL: Thank you. 44:51.333 --> 44:56.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: In the wake of protests against systemic racism in America, many industries 44:58.233 --> 45:02.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are reexamining past practices and facing questions about their own racial biases. 45:04.233 --> 45:07.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% One new effort puts a spotlight on the world of publishing. 45:07.000 --> 45:09.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Here's Jeffrey Brown's Race Matters report. 45:09.566 --> 45:12.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% That's part of our ongoing arts and culture series, Canvas. 45:12.933 --> 45:17.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: It began as a social media call out, #PublishingPaidMe, a request for 45:19.900 --> 45:23.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% authors to reveal the advances they have been paid for their books. 45:23.900 --> 45:28.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The result, based on responses from hundreds of writers, a clear disparity between black 45:29.633 --> 45:31.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% and non-black authors. 45:31.566 --> 45:35.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The hashtag was started by L.L. McKinney, a writer of fantasy novels for young adults. 45:35.933 --> 45:40.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% L.L. MCKINNEY, Author, "A Dream So Dark": This advance has a lot to do with how well 45:40.333 --> 45:43.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the publisher thinks the story will do. 45:43.400 --> 45:48.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And a lot of that has to do with this idea of a universal story. If a certain story is 45:50.400 --> 45:55.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% more universal, then more people will have access to it. And this highlights what publishing 45:57.433 --> 46:00.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% views as the default for the universal story. 46:00.100 --> 46:04.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JEFFREY BROWN: The call-out struck a nerve, and many prominent black authors weighed in, 46:04.900 --> 46:09.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% including novelist Jesmyn Ward, who wrote of how she fought and fought for a $100,000 46:11.900 --> 46:15.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% advance for her third novel, "Sing, Unburied, Sing," even after her second, "Salvage the 46:17.800 --> 46:21.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Bones," for which she received about $20,000, had won the National Book Award for fiction. 46:23.133 --> 46:27.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% By contrast, Lydia Kiesling, who is white, wrote of receiving a $200,000 advance for 46:29.533 --> 46:33.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% her literary debut. N.K. Jemisin, a black novelist who won the Hugo Award recognizing 46:35.466 --> 46:40.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the best science fiction and fantasy writing three years in a row, said she received just 46:41.933 --> 46:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% $25,000 advances for each of the books in her award-winning Broken Earth trilogy. 46:47.633 --> 46:51.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% L.L. MCKINNEY: You have an award-winning author who is beloved by so many, you know, right 46:53.266 --> 46:56.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on up to presidents picking up her book, you know, vs. some people who we have never heard 47:01.233 --> 47:05.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% of, because the book doesn't earn out or it flops. 47:05.033 --> 47:09.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But then that person can turn around and get that same advance and a second chance. 47:09.533 --> 47:12.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: The outpouring on Twitter confirmed many suspicions. 47:12.566 --> 47:17.566 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% L.L. MCKINNEY: I knew that there was a disparity. I didn't realize how large the disparity was. 47:19.800 --> 47:23.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Like, we knew it was there, and we knew it was big, but we didn't know it was that big. 47:23.700 --> 47:28.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WOMAN: A new novel by Jeanine Cummins up a debate about white privilege, racism in publishing 47:30.933 --> 47:34.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and the unintended consequences of telling a story that is not your own. 47:34.566 --> 47:38.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: Earlier this year, the publishing industry came under fire over issues of pay 47:38.800 --> 47:43.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and representation for the novel "American Dirt," a story of Mexican migrants written 47:45.733 --> 47:49.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by a non-Mexican author, Jeanine Cummins, who reportedly received a seven-figure advance. 47:51.433 --> 47:56.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Some prominent Latino writers found the story inauthentic, advancing harmful stereotypes. 47:57.633 --> 48:00.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% For L.L. McKinney, all these issues are personal. 48:00.266 --> 48:05.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% L.L. MCKINNEY: I was a kid who loved science fiction and fantasy, but science fiction and 48:06.066 --> 48:08.300 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% fantasy did not love me back. 48:08.300 --> 48:13.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If I was on the page, I was the sassy best friend, or I was the enemy, or I was the help, 48:16.166 --> 48:21.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% or I was the gangbanger. As a child, I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate what I was 48:23.166 --> 48:27.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% seeing and feeling. But now that I do, that's what I want to change for the readers of today 48:28.066 --> 48:30.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and the readers of the future. 48:30.066 --> 48:34.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: Also now thinking of those readers, Dana Canedy, newly appointed publisher 48:36.566 --> 48:39.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of Simon & Schuster. A former New York Times journalist and more recently administrator 48:41.866 --> 48:45.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of the Pulitzer Prizes, she becomes the first black person to head a major publishing house. 48:46.433 --> 48:50.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Dana Canedy joins me now from New York. 48:50.266 --> 48:52.833 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Dana Canedy, welcome to you. 48:52.833 --> 48:56.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, let's start with that hashtag #PublishingPaidMe. It put a spotlight on black writers being 48:57.966 --> 49:00.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% paid less and, therefore, a sense of being valued less. 49:00.333 --> 49:05.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now, I know you're new to this industry, but what do you see? How do you respond to something 49:05.066 --> 49:07.166 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% like that? 49:07.166 --> 49:09.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% DANA CANEDY, Senior Vice President and Publisher, Simon & Schuster: Well, I think it's going 49:09.233 --> 49:11.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to be my job to make sure that doesn't happen at Simon & Schuster and hopefully to be able 49:11.733 --> 49:16.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to influence the larger publishing community as well. 49:16.166 --> 49:20.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There's no excuse for that. And I wouldn't have stood for it when I was writing my book. 49:20.366 --> 49:25.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Thankfully, that didn't happen to me. But, as a leader in this industry now, I want to 49:27.366 --> 49:31.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% hear from folks who have had those experiences and figure out how we can solve it. 49:31.933 --> 49:36.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: Many cultural institutions, of course, are now reexamining themselves 49:36.266 --> 49:39.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in light of the Black Lives Matter protest. 49:39.533 --> 49:44.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In what specific ways -- publishing has long been seen as an insular and largely white 49:46.566 --> 49:49.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in its makeup as an industry. In what specific ways do you think it should look at itself 49:50.900 --> 49:53.000 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% and change? 49:53.000 --> 49:56.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% DANA CANEDY: It's very funny to me when people say that publishing fits that sort of M.O., 49:58.833 --> 50:03.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because you could be talking about law, or really sort of any other industry. 50:05.500 --> 50:08.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think industries in general need to look at themselves, publishing included. And I, 50:11.000 --> 50:15.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for many years, headed up diversity and inclusion initiatives at The New York Times as part 50:17.333 --> 50:21.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% of my portfolio as a senior manager there, a senior newsroom leader. 50:23.100 --> 50:26.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I have a lot of tools in my tool chest that I can call upon. But I think, for Simon 50:28.333 --> 50:31.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% & Schuster specifically, I don't have the answers yet. I need to get -- start the job, 50:31.133 --> 50:35.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% get in there, roll up my sleeves, and see what they're doing and where there are opportunities 50:35.633 --> 50:37.700 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% for growth. 50:37.700 --> 50:41.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, one thing anybody who works with me knows is, I'm very honest. I'm not going to pretend 50:41.066 --> 50:46.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to have answers that I don't. So I will get in there, talk to the staff, talk to the leadership, 50:46.933 --> 50:49.066 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and figure out where we go. 50:49.066 --> 50:53.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% We will have -- and they may already, but we will have a comprehensive approach to diversity 50:55.000 --> 50:59.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of all kinds. I just need to get into the company and figure out where we need to go. 51:01.366 --> 51:06.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And then I don't think it's enough, as a leader in this industry who happens to be a person 51:07.333 --> 51:09.400 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of color, to just look at Simon & Schuster. 51:09.400 --> 51:14.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I want to influence the entire publishing community. It's a little early to answer how, 51:16.233 --> 51:18.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but I will. And you can check back with me in a year and hold me accountable. 51:18.633 --> 51:21.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: OK, we -- I hope we will get a chance to do that. 51:21.666 --> 51:26.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But I mentioned the case, the debate around the novel "American Dirt." And I wonder. You're 51:29.066 --> 51:31.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a reader. You're a writer yourself. Do you - - when you look at this world of publishing, 51:34.133 --> 51:37.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% do you see a lack of opportunities for writers of color? Do you see a lack of voices being 51:37.900 --> 51:39.833 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% heard? 51:39.833 --> 51:43.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DANA CANEDY: So, I think that's changed in recent years, and there's more opportunity 51:43.366 --> 51:48.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% than ever before, historically. And not even in the very distant past, that's been the 51:49.466 --> 51:51.600 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% case. 51:51.600 --> 51:54.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I do think it's changing. And I think it will continue to because of the movement that's 51:54.166 --> 51:58.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% taken hold in this country. I also think that's where I'm going to have tremendous influence 51:58.233 --> 52:03.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to bring in different voices, both established authors, but emerging voices that could be 52:04.700 --> 52:06.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% very important. 52:06.800 --> 52:10.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We have a lot of work to do. We have to do it collectively. I'm one person in one company. 52:12.866 --> 52:16.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I think that there are some opportunities for leaders across publishing houses to put 52:18.033 --> 52:21.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% our heads together and figure out how we can influence this issue, how we can improve things 52:23.300 --> 52:27.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% related to both subject matter, pay equity for advances, the voices and the authors that 52:31.633 --> 52:33.733 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% get highlighted. 52:33.733 --> 52:37.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% All of that provides, in my view, an exciting opportunity to improve things. And I will 52:38.833 --> 52:40.866 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% do that. I will as best I can. 52:40.866 --> 52:45.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: I know -- we just have 30 seconds, but I read that your son calls you, what, 52:45.733 --> 52:47.800 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% word nerd. 52:47.800 --> 52:51.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I know you love books. But why take this job? I mean (AUDIO GAP) what is it you hope to 52:51.333 --> 52:53.433 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% do, and why did you want it? 52:53.433 --> 52:56.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DANA CANEDY: Well, I think it's a tremendous opportunity to work with somebody I admire 52:56.466 --> 53:00.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% greatly, Jonathan Karp, who's one of the best minds in the business. I wanted to work with 53:00.800 --> 53:03.233 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% him. 53:03.233 --> 53:05.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I also think I can have influence in the ways you and I just discussed. And I will, and 53:05.600 --> 53:10.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I intend to. But, also, I'm a word nerd. I love words. So, this is like a dream job. 53:12.466 --> 53:14.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY BROWN: All right, Dana Canedy is the new publisher of Simon & Schuster. 53:14.533 --> 53:16.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Thank you, and good luck. 53:16.000 --> 53:21.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DANA CANEDY: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 53:23.000 --> 53:27.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And tonight on the "PBS NewsHour" online, another episode of our podcast "America, 53:37.500 --> 53:39.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% Interrupted." 53:39.566 --> 53:43.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% As the U.S. grapples with how to reopen and contain the coronavirus, we go across the 53:43.466 --> 53:48.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pond to the U.K. to hear about what we might learn from how Brits are handling the pandemic. 53:50.300 --> 53:54.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Listen on our Web site. That's PBS.org/NewsHour or wherever you get your podcasts. 53:56.333 --> 54:00.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Also on the "NewsHour" online, "Citizen" by Claudia Rankine is our July selection for 54:00.533 --> 54:05.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Now Read This, our book club with The New York Times. It's a collection of essays, images 54:08.000 --> 54:10.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and poetry that consider how collective expressions of racism play out in contemporary society. 54:12.500 --> 54:16.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Rankine recently told the "NewsHour" about how a natural disaster, Hurricane Katrina, 54:18.033 --> 54:20.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% prompted her to focus her work on race in America. 54:20.333 --> 54:23.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight. I'm Amna Nawaz. 54:23.700 --> 54:28.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Join us online and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour," thank 54:28.466 --> 54:31.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% you, please stay safe, and we'll see you soon.