1 00:00:05,866 --> 00:00:08,433 AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz. Judy Woodruff is away. 2 00:00:08,433 --> 00:00:13,366 On the "NewsHour" tonight: The surge continues. The risks of reopening grow, as cases of COVID-19 3 00:00:15,366 --> 00:00:19,600 spike across the country and the Centers for Disease Control faces scrutiny for its pandemic 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,600 response. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,633 Then: one-on-one. Senator Bernie Sanders on the race for the White House and former Vice 6 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,600 President Biden's new plan to tackle climate change. 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,533 Plus: Rethinking College. The future of higher education remains in doubt for many community 8 00:00:36,066 --> 00:00:38,833 college students burdened by COVID-19 and structural inequality. 9 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:42,866 DERIONNE POLLARD, President, Montgomery College: Many of them live very fragile lives, and 10 00:00:42,866 --> 00:00:46,533 they're oftentimes one paycheck away from disaster. 11 00:00:46,533 --> 00:00:50,066 AMNA NAWAZ: All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour." 12 00:00:50,066 --> 00:00:55,033 (BREAK) 13 00:02:20,033 --> 00:02:25,033 AMNA NAWAZ: The relentless rise of COVID-19 cases has dominated another day in the summer 14 00:02:26,933 --> 00:02:30,166 of 2020. More states are setting records for infections and deaths, and more are moving 15 00:02:31,033 --> 00:02:32,533 to curb activities again. 16 00:02:32,533 --> 00:02:34,633 Lisa Desjardins reports on the day's developments. 17 00:02:34,633 --> 00:02:39,433 LISA DESJARDINS: In Florida, the deadliest day yet from the coronavirus, with 132 deaths, 18 00:02:39,433 --> 00:02:44,433 a 10 percent increase from its previous record. 19 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,633 Republican Governor Ron DeSantis has defended reopening, but, today, he sounded a somber 20 00:02:50,133 --> 00:02:52,233 note. 21 00:02:52,233 --> 00:02:55,333 GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): People are apprehensive. People are hurting. This virus has affected 22 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:57,833 every Floridian's life in one way or another. 23 00:02:57,833 --> 00:03:02,800 LISA DESJARDINS: Florida is part of a trio of high-population hot spots, along with California 24 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,900 and Texas. Those three states reported 30,000 new virus cases yesterday alone, this as local 25 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:14,366 leaders across the country are rethinking their moves to reopen. 26 00:03:14,366 --> 00:03:18,666 Officials outside Houston in Fort Bend County, Texas, have decided school this fall will 27 00:03:18,666 --> 00:03:21,166 open with online learning only. 28 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:23,200 DR. JACQUELYN JOHNSON MINTER, Director, Fort Bend County, Texas, Health and Human Services: 29 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,300 We cannot tell this virus what we will and will not do. The virus will teach us what 30 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,300 is safe and what is prudent to do. 31 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:35,300 LISA DESJARDINS: In California, the same decision with even more impact. Officials in Los Angeles 32 00:03:37,266 --> 00:03:40,600 and San Diego announced classrooms will stay closed, online learning only, when school 33 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,166 starts. That affects more than 800,000 students. 34 00:03:45,166 --> 00:03:47,200 Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti: 35 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,733 ERIC GARCETTI (D), Mayor of Los Angeles: We have never had as many people infected or 36 00:03:50,733 --> 00:03:55,733 infectious. We have never had as many recorded positive cases each day. And we have never 37 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,166 had as many people in the hospital as there are tonight, as I speak to you, in Los Angeles. 38 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:07,500 LISA DESJARDINS: But there is divide. 39 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:11,933 Outside of Los Angeles, protesters for and against gathered as the Orange County School 40 00:04:11,933 --> 00:04:16,933 Board recommended that classrooms reopen next month without masks or social distancing. 41 00:04:19,533 --> 00:04:23,033 On the opposite coast, the opposite direction. The city of Philadelphia took a dramatic preventative 42 00:04:24,933 --> 00:04:28,800 step today. Mayor Jim Kenney announced all large public events in the city are canceled 43 00:04:29,666 --> 00:04:32,166 through February of next year. 44 00:04:32,166 --> 00:04:34,866 JIM KENNEY (D), Mayor of Philadelphia: What we are doing here is following medical advice, 45 00:04:34,866 --> 00:04:39,233 which I think every city and state in the nation should have, and we wouldn't be in 46 00:04:39,233 --> 00:04:41,233 the situation that we see resurging. 47 00:04:41,233 --> 00:04:45,666 LISA DESJARDINS: In Louisiana, where cases are again mounting, Governor John Bel Edwards 48 00:04:45,666 --> 00:04:49,733 has mandated face masks for all residents in public. 49 00:04:49,733 --> 00:04:53,700 Vice President Pence visited the state today to encourage emergency workers. 50 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:56,533 MIKE PENCE, Vice President of the United States: Keep up the great work, OK? 51 00:04:56,533 --> 00:05:00,266 LISA DESJARDINS: Meanwhile, the White House's testing czar pushed back at some retweets 52 00:05:00,266 --> 00:05:03,533 sent by President Trump accusing health officials of lying. 53 00:05:03,533 --> 00:05:06,100 Admiral Brett Giroir spoke to NBC. 54 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:08,066 ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. Assistant Secretary for Health and Human Services: We may occasionally 55 00:05:08,066 --> 00:05:10,766 make mistakes, based on the information we have, but none of us lie. 56 00:05:10,766 --> 00:05:15,433 LISA DESJARDINS: Dr. Anthony Fauci, the administration's top disease expert, whom President Trump has 57 00:05:15,433 --> 00:05:20,433 criticized, was asked in an online forum whom Americans should trust, and back to the experts. 58 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,800 DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID Director: I would stick with respected medical authorities who 59 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,800 have a track record of telling the truth, who have a track record of giving information 60 00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:38,166 and policy and recommendations based on scientific evidence and good data. 61 00:05:40,166 --> 00:05:44,466 LISA DESJARDINS: Fauci also alluded to some good news on the vaccine front. Researchers 62 00:05:44,466 --> 00:05:49,466 reported that the first U.S. tests of one vaccine did, in fact, boost immune systems, 63 00:05:51,433 --> 00:05:54,700 a positive sign, but just one of many steps and months of further tests ahead. 64 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,133 Abroad, India has seen confirmed infections explode, with 100,000 new cases in just four 65 00:06:02,033 --> 00:06:05,533 days. The country has the third highest global tally. 66 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:10,533 And, in Australia, the government is imposing tougher penalties for people who violate quarantine. 67 00:06:12,433 --> 00:06:16,000 In Queensland State, the penalty for breaking the rules will now be up to six months in 68 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,200 jail. 69 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,000 For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins. 70 00:06:27,366 --> 00:06:32,366 AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other news: The Department of Homeland Security dropped its directive 71 00:06:35,266 --> 00:06:40,266 that international students in the U.S. attend college classes in person or leave the country. 72 00:06:42,333 --> 00:06:45,466 The announcement came at a federal court hearing in Boston. Harvard and MIT had sued, arguing 73 00:06:47,433 --> 00:06:50,500 the rule would force students to risk getting the coronavirus and cost the schools money. 74 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:54,533 More than 200 other colleges universities supported the lawsuit. 75 00:06:54,533 --> 00:06:59,533 Three states held primaries today, amid the COVID-19 resurgence. In Texas, Democrats were 76 00:07:02,066 --> 00:07:04,733 choosing a challenger to Republican John Cornyn, a three-term U.S. senator. The state did not 77 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,866 require face masks at the polls and did not expand mail-in voting. 78 00:07:08,866 --> 00:07:13,866 In Alabama, former U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions faced Tommy Tuberville for a Republican 79 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,666 Senate nomination. And in Maine, Republican Senator Susan Collins awaited the winner of 80 00:07:18,666 --> 00:07:21,566 the Democratic nominating contest. 81 00:07:21,566 --> 00:07:26,533 President Trump has weighed in again on racial issues confronting the nation. In a CBS News 82 00:07:26,533 --> 00:07:31,266 interview today, he dismissed concerns about the Confederate Flag and said -- quote -- "People 83 00:07:31,266 --> 00:07:36,266 love it." He also criticized a question about black Americans being disproportionately killed 84 00:07:38,233 --> 00:07:41,500 by police by saying -- quote -- "So are white people, more white people, by the way." 85 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:46,966 The president also signed an order aimed at China's efforts to rein in protests in Hong 86 00:07:48,933 --> 00:07:51,200 Kong. The order strips the territory of preferential financial treatment. 87 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,933 Meanwhile, China sharply criticized the U.S. for rejecting most of its territorial claims 88 00:07:55,933 --> 00:08:00,933 in the South China Sea. Beijing accused Washington of -- quote -- "flexing its muscles" and interfering 89 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:03,800 in the region. 90 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,566 Britain has reversed course, and will ban Chinese telecom giant Huawei from its next-generation 91 00:08:10,533 --> 00:08:12,966 mobile phone system. The U.S. had pressed for the change, and the British government 92 00:08:12,966 --> 00:08:14,533 announced it today. 93 00:08:14,533 --> 00:08:16,533 Dan Hewitt of Independent Television reports. 94 00:08:16,533 --> 00:08:18,566 OLIVER DOWDEN, United Kingdom Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport: The U.K. 95 00:08:18,566 --> 00:08:22,766 can no longer be confident it will be able to guarantee the future security of Huawei 96 00:08:25,266 --> 00:08:28,600 5G equipment. By the time of the next election, we will have implemented in law an irreversible 97 00:08:30,566 --> 00:08:34,600 path for complete removal of the Huawei equipment from our 5G networks. 98 00:08:36,500 --> 00:08:39,000 DAN HEWITT: So why have the government done it? Well, Huawei may be the world's second 99 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,866 largest supplier of mobile phones after Samsung, but the Chinese firm's equipment is also at 100 00:08:43,866 --> 00:08:48,533 the heart of the U.K.'s mobile network. And it's their role in the newest technology, 101 00:08:48,533 --> 00:08:51,466 5G, where the apparent security risks lie. 102 00:08:51,466 --> 00:08:56,166 In May, the U.S. imposed sanctions on Huawei, who claim China could use the firm to spy 103 00:08:56,166 --> 00:09:00,866 on them. And, today, U.K. Security Services concluded they could not guarantee that using 104 00:09:00,866 --> 00:09:05,800 Huawei's 5G kit was safe. So the government will ban all telecoms companies from buying 105 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,733 Huawei's equipment after this year and remove all their 5G technology from the U.K. by 2027. 106 00:09:10,733 --> 00:09:13,766 JEREMY THOMPSON, Executive Vice President, Huawei U.K.: We're disappointed by the announcement 107 00:09:13,766 --> 00:09:18,766 today. It wasn't totally unexpected, but the severity and the speed of the implementation, 108 00:09:20,766 --> 00:09:25,600 we think, will be a problem for the U.K. network. So it's not good news for U.K. consumers. 109 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:30,400 DAN HEWITT: But major economies do not see you as trustworthy, and they believe you are 110 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,366 ultimately answerable to the Chinese state. 111 00:09:32,366 --> 00:09:36,333 JEREMY THOMPSON: We provide communication services to one-third of the planet. So, we 112 00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:38,400 are trusted. 113 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,066 DAN HEWITT: Huawei will be allowed to carry on providing equipment for Britain's 3G and 114 00:09:42,066 --> 00:09:47,066 4G networks, but the government admitted today that removing them from 5G would set the U.K. 115 00:09:48,933 --> 00:09:51,300 back two or three years, and cost the phone companies two billion pounds. 116 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:54,933 KAREN EGAN, Telecommunications Analyst: Ultimately, it's very likely the consumer is going to 117 00:09:54,933 --> 00:09:59,933 pay for that. And the consumer is going to pay in terms of slower 5G rollout and kind 118 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,366 of waiting longer for the benefits that ensues from that. 119 00:10:03,366 --> 00:10:07,233 DAN HEWITT: While this latest government U-turn will be welcomed in Washington, attention 120 00:10:07,233 --> 00:10:12,066 will now turn to reaction in Beijing and the diplomatic cost of pulling the plug on one 121 00:10:12,066 --> 00:10:13,966 of its biggest names. 122 00:10:13,966 --> 00:10:18,633 AMNA NAWAZ: That report from Dan Hewitt of Independent Television News. 123 00:10:20,566 --> 00:10:23,633 In Bangladesh, seasonal monsoon flooding has now left more than a million people stranded 124 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,933 or displaced. With major rivers rising, villagers in the north are using makeshift boats to 125 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:34,133 get animals and belongings to higher ground. The water is flowing in from India upstream. 126 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,033 The monsoon season begins in June and runs through October. 127 00:10:38,033 --> 00:10:42,400 Back in this country, meanwhile, the federal government carried out its first execution 128 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,366 in 17 years. Daniel Lewis Lee died by lethal injection at a federal prison in Terre Haute, 129 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:53,433 Indiana. He murdered three people in Arkansas in 1996 in a white supremacist plot. The execution 130 00:10:55,433 --> 00:10:59,300 went ahead after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a lower court's injunction overnight. 131 00:11:01,333 --> 00:11:04,733 British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell pled not guilty today to luring young girls into sexual 132 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:09,433 abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. She appeared in a video hearing before a federal court in 133 00:11:09,433 --> 00:11:14,433 New York. The judge denied bail for Maxwell and set a new trial date for next July. Her 134 00:11:16,366 --> 00:11:19,400 longtime confidant Epstein was facing sex trafficking charges when he killed himself 135 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,866 in jail last August. 136 00:11:21,866 --> 00:11:26,033 Another federal judge in New York has rejected a settlement between Harvey Weinstein and 137 00:11:26,033 --> 00:11:31,033 his sexual misconduct accusers. The former Hollywood producer is serving 23 years for 138 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,166 rape and sexual assault. He had agreed to pay $19 million, but the judge ruled today 139 00:11:36,166 --> 00:11:41,166 that the dozens of accusers are too varied to be grouped into a single settlement. 140 00:11:43,166 --> 00:11:46,533 Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was hospitalized today with a possible infection. 141 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,300 A court statement says she's at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore after having a bile duct stent 142 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:56,266 cleaned out. She's expected to remain there for several days. Ginsburg has had two bouts 143 00:11:57,900 --> 00:12:00,733 with cancer and been hospitalized several times in recent years. 144 00:12:00,733 --> 00:12:05,733 And on Wall Street today, stocks picked up steam after a slow start, as investors again 145 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,000 pushed aside concerns over COVID-19. The Dow Jones industrial average gained 556 points 146 00:12:12,933 --> 00:12:17,033 to close at 26642. The Nasdaq rose 97 points, and the S&P 500 added 42. 147 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,966 Still to come on the "NewsHour": Bernie Sanders discusses the race for the White House and 148 00:12:24,966 --> 00:12:29,966 Biden's plan to combat climate change; the Centers for Disease Control faces increasing 149 00:12:31,966 --> 00:12:35,133 scrutiny for its handling of the pandemic; the struggles of community college students 150 00:12:36,633 --> 00:12:40,266 burdened by COVID-19 and structural inequality; plus, much more. 151 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:59,466 Today, former Vice President Joe Biden released new policy proposals aimed at the climate 152 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,000 crisis. His $2 trillion plan will increase the use of renewable energy, and it includes 153 00:13:09,566 --> 00:13:12,733 a goal of a carbon pollution-free power sector by 2035. 154 00:13:12,733 --> 00:13:15,066 Here's what the former vice president said in a speech in Delaware: 155 00:13:15,066 --> 00:13:18,433 JOSEPH BIDEN (D), Presidential Candidate: I know that climate change is a challenge 156 00:13:18,433 --> 00:13:23,433 that's going to define our America's future. I know meeting the challenge will be a once-in-a-lifetime 157 00:13:25,433 --> 00:13:28,766 opportunity to jolt new life into our economy, strengthen our global leadership, protect 158 00:13:30,833 --> 00:13:33,233 our planet for future generations. 159 00:13:33,233 --> 00:13:37,933 If I have the honor of being elected president, we're not just going to tinker around the 160 00:13:37,933 --> 00:13:42,933 edges. We're going to make historic investments that will seize the opportunity and meet this 161 00:13:44,033 --> 00:13:46,166 moment in history. 162 00:13:46,166 --> 00:13:50,333 AMNA NAWAZ: These policy proposals were formed in part by joint task forces created to unify 163 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:55,766 the Democratic Party. They were put together by Biden and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, 164 00:13:56,533 --> 00:13:58,600 who joins me now. 165 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,666 Senator Sanders, welcome back to the "NewsHour," and thanks for being with us. 166 00:14:00,666 --> 00:14:04,966 I want to ask you about your team's efforts to move the Biden campaign and the Biden team 167 00:14:04,966 --> 00:14:08,900 platform a little bit further to the left. As we just mentioned, you did get him to move 168 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:13,900 up that timeline to commit to 100 percent clean electricity. But it's not the Green 169 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,066 New Deal. 170 00:14:17,066 --> 00:14:20,333 You did get him to commit to a government-run public health care option. But it's not Medicare 171 00:14:20,333 --> 00:14:23,566 for all. So, those were key campaign issues for you. 172 00:14:23,566 --> 00:14:28,266 Do you think these policies are enough for your backers to want to back Biden? 173 00:14:28,266 --> 00:14:32,633 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, given that the alternative is Donald Trump, the most 174 00:14:32,633 --> 00:14:36,466 dangerous president in the history of this country, I'm absolutely confident that those 175 00:14:36,466 --> 00:14:41,466 proposals are not only a significant step forward, but are going to win widespread support 176 00:14:42,566 --> 00:14:45,700 from the progressive community. 177 00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:50,700 What Joe Biden understands is that, in order to win this election -- and I'm going to do 178 00:14:52,733 --> 00:14:55,466 everything I can to see that he does win it - - we're going to need a large voter turnout. 179 00:14:55,466 --> 00:15:00,300 And to get a large voter turnout, there has to be energy and excitement among younger 180 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:05,200 people, among working-class people, among people who very often who do not vote, for 181 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,233 a variety of reasons. 182 00:15:07,233 --> 00:15:11,633 And I think what our task force has managed to do is to reach compromises which are going 183 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:17,033 to bring a lot more excitement to a sector of the voting population that was less enthusiastic 184 00:15:18,266 --> 00:15:20,333 about Joe. 185 00:15:20,333 --> 00:15:23,033 AMNA NAWAZ: Can I ask you, Senator, are you worried those compromises could temper some 186 00:15:23,033 --> 00:15:26,366 of that excitement or enthusiasm that you say Mr. Biden needs? 187 00:15:26,366 --> 00:15:31,100 I mean, there's already been some criticism, even from your former national press secretary, 188 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:35,533 who said that the Biden team was showing -- quote - - "mocking disrespect" for voters with these 189 00:15:35,533 --> 00:15:37,600 kinds of plans. 190 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,233 What do you say to people who have concerns that these plans don't go far enough? 191 00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:43,300 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I will tell you, I don't think they go far enough. 192 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:48,300 And the people who are on representing the progressive community on the task forces don't 193 00:15:50,366 --> 00:15:53,633 think these proposals go far enough. But the answer is to elect Joe Biden, and then to 194 00:15:55,633 --> 00:16:00,100 strengthen our grassroots movement to make sure that, in all respects, the environment, 195 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:06,633 the economy, health care, we have a government that represents all of us, and not just the 196 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,166 few. 197 00:16:09,166 --> 00:16:12,766 But I think it is very hard for anybody to seriously look at these proposals, whether 198 00:16:12,766 --> 00:16:16,466 it is on health care, whether it's on the environment or climate change, whether it's 199 00:16:16,466 --> 00:16:21,466 on education, whether it's in the economy, and not to see that, if these proposals were 200 00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:27,433 to be implemented, Joe Biden would be the most progressive president since FDR. 201 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,500 It's a significant step forward, but, in truth, it's not all that I would like. 202 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:37,333 AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, as you know, during this pandemic, voters' top issues have shifted 203 00:16:37,333 --> 00:16:41,533 somewhat. Things like health care, immigration, even climate change have moved further down 204 00:16:41,533 --> 00:16:46,166 the list. Obviously, the coronavirus and the pandemic response and the economy have moved 205 00:16:46,166 --> 00:16:48,066 to the top. 206 00:16:48,066 --> 00:16:51,166 So, as Congress is now considering another spending plan, I want to ask you, how big 207 00:16:51,166 --> 00:16:55,533 do you think it should be? And what do you say to people who are concerned that, the 208 00:16:55,533 --> 00:16:59,433 bigger that response gets, the more it's going to push America into the red? 209 00:16:59,433 --> 00:17:03,766 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Look, this is what I say. And that is that we are living in an 210 00:17:03,766 --> 00:17:06,833 unprecedented moment in American history. 211 00:17:06,833 --> 00:17:11,833 We have a pandemic, because -- and, because of Trump's ineptitude and downplaying this 212 00:17:13,766 --> 00:17:18,766 pandemic from day one, is getting worse in many states in this country; 135,000 people 213 00:17:20,366 --> 00:17:23,400 have already died. And that number will grow in months to come. 214 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,400 We have an economy which has lost tens of millions of jobs. Today in Vermont and throughout 215 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,033 this country, people are hungry. By the millions, people are worried about being evicted. People 216 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,033 in many cases have lost their health insurance. 217 00:17:38,033 --> 00:17:43,033 We have got to stand up and represent the working families of this country, who are 218 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,433 seeing today more desperation than they have seen in many, many decades. 219 00:17:50,466 --> 00:17:54,433 And the alternative to not becoming aggressive is to see, in my view, not only unbelievable 220 00:17:57,133 --> 00:18:02,066 human suffering, but to see this economy head straightforward into a Great Depression. 221 00:18:02,066 --> 00:18:05,933 AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, to that point, how big do you think that that next spending plan 222 00:18:05,933 --> 00:18:07,966 should be, then? 223 00:18:07,966 --> 00:18:11,933 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, the House passed its bill for $3 trillion. And I think the 224 00:18:13,233 --> 00:18:16,000 Senate should do at least as much. 225 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,000 We are seeing now unprecedented suffering in this country. We have tens of millions 226 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,133 of people who've lost their jobs. Many have lost their health care. There are people in 227 00:18:25,133 --> 00:18:30,133 my state of Vermont, throughout this country who today are worried about feeding their 228 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,733 families. People are worried about being evicted from their homes. 229 00:18:34,733 --> 00:18:39,733 This is America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Now is the time 230 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,700 to stand with working families. 231 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,733 And let me just say this. If we don't do that, not only are we going to see an increase in 232 00:18:48,666 --> 00:18:52,500 suffering and death. What we're also going to see is this country plunging, in my view, 233 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:56,800 into the worst economic decline since the Great Depression. 234 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,833 AMNA NAWAZ: Senator, less than a minute left. 235 00:18:58,833 --> 00:19:02,433 I have to ask you. As we look back to 2016, it's worth pointing out that most of your 236 00:19:02,433 --> 00:19:07,366 supporters back then did end up voting for Hillary Clinton, but more than a quarter did 237 00:19:07,366 --> 00:19:11,266 not. In fact, I met many of them even earlier this primary season who described themselves 238 00:19:11,266 --> 00:19:14,700 as Bernie or bust, right? They weren't sure that they were going to vote for the Democratic 239 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:16,766 nominee if it wasn't you. 240 00:19:16,766 --> 00:19:21,200 I wonder, do you think now that selecting a running mate who is more progressive, like 241 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,566 Elizabeth Warren, would help Mr. Biden to win over some of those supporters? 242 00:19:25,566 --> 00:19:30,566 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I think that the Biden campaign, they're very good politicians. 243 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,633 And I think they understand that they need a vice president who not only will have the 244 00:19:36,633 --> 00:19:41,633 right politics for Joe Biden, but as somebody he is personally compatible with. I think, 245 00:19:43,633 --> 00:19:46,300 when you're dealing with the vice president, there has got to be a lot of personal chemistry. 246 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:50,900 And that's a decision, I'm sure, that Joe and his team are looking very hard at right 247 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:52,800 now. 248 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,233 AMNA NAWAZ: That is Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders joining us tonight. 249 00:19:54,233 --> 00:19:57,266 Thank you so much for your time, sir. 250 00:19:57,266 --> 00:20:02,266 SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: My pleasure. Thank you. 251 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,400 AMNA NAWAZ: Traditionally, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or the 252 00:20:12,633 --> 00:20:17,400 CDC, is seen as the leading government agency to monitor public health during an epidemic 253 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,000 and to convey key information to the larger public. 254 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000 Historically, the CDC is not very political. But, in many ways, its role has been very 255 00:20:25,866 --> 00:20:27,900 different during this pandemic. 256 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:31,766 As William Brangham tells us now, four former directors of the agency say, the CDC's voice 257 00:20:32,966 --> 00:20:35,033 has been muted for political reasons. 258 00:20:35,033 --> 00:20:38,233 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amna, these four former directors these are men who have served in 259 00:20:38,233 --> 00:20:43,200 Republican and Democratic administrations just issued an editorial in The Washington 260 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:45,766 Post. 261 00:20:45,766 --> 00:20:49,433 And they argued that the agency's voice and crucial guidance has been sidelined. 262 00:20:51,466 --> 00:20:54,500 They wrote -- quote -- "We're seeing the terrible effect of undermining the CDC play out in 263 00:20:56,566 --> 00:21:01,033 our population. Willful disregard for public health guidelines is, unsurprisingly, leading 264 00:21:02,133 --> 00:21:05,866 to a sharp rise in infections and deaths." 265 00:21:05,866 --> 00:21:10,866 One of those former directors is joining me now. Dr. Thomas Besser -- Richard Besser is 266 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,500 the CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which we should say is a funder of the "NewsHour." 267 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:20,566 Dr. Besser, thank you very much for being here. 268 00:21:20,566 --> 00:21:25,566 The headline of your editorial said: "We ran the CDC. No president ever politicized its 269 00:21:27,566 --> 00:21:29,900 science the way Trump has." 270 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:31,866 How has he done so? 271 00:21:31,866 --> 00:21:33,500 DR. RICHARD BESSER, Former Acting Director, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: 272 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,766 Well you know, what we're seeing, William, is a clash of messages. 273 00:21:36,766 --> 00:21:41,633 We hear every public health leader in the nation talking about how serious this pandemic 274 00:21:41,633 --> 00:21:46,600 is, talking about the steps we need to take as individuals and as a nation to ensure that 275 00:21:47,766 --> 00:21:51,166 we minimize the damage to people's lives. 276 00:21:51,166 --> 00:21:56,133 And then we hear politicians, starting at the White House, talk about how there's nothing 277 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,833 to worry about, how public health is overplaying this. And the injection of politics into a 278 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,333 public health response is extremely dangerous for the nation. 279 00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:12,300 CDC is the nation's public health agency. And their guidance informs what states do, 280 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:17,300 what local public health does. By injecting politics into it and undermining the trust 281 00:22:18,933 --> 00:22:23,200 that we need to have in that guidance, it puts people's lives at risk. 282 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,200 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And what are some of the real-world effects of that politicizing of 283 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,233 the science? 284 00:22:30,233 --> 00:22:32,300 DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, a number of things. 285 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:36,966 The biggest challenge I'm seeing for CDC is that they're not having daily press conferences. 286 00:22:36,966 --> 00:22:41,233 They're not able to talk to the public through the media about what they're doing and what 287 00:22:41,233 --> 00:22:43,300 they're learning. 288 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:47,200 So, months ago, CDC talked about masks and the importance of health care workers wearing 289 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,500 masks, but talked about the general public not needing to wear masks. But there's been 290 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:56,433 a lot of learning that's gone on in every public health response. I ran emergency response 291 00:22:56,433 --> 00:22:59,533 at CDC for four years. 292 00:22:59,533 --> 00:23:04,500 And during every response, what you don't know early on far outweighs what you do know. 293 00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:09,233 And you use science to drive the direction of your response. 294 00:23:09,233 --> 00:23:13,900 So, as CDC learned more, as we learned more from other nations and what was successful, 295 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:18,066 CDC changed their guidance. They recommend that everyone in America wear a mask. And 296 00:23:18,066 --> 00:23:22,666 the reason is because a lot of people can transmit this infection before they even know 297 00:23:22,666 --> 00:23:26,100 they're sick. So, by wearing a mask, you can cut down on that. 298 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:31,100 Well, the CDC had no opportunity to make that case to the public. So, it looked like a total 299 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:36,433 flip-flop. Without bringing the public along, there's no way to build the trust that is 300 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,700 absolutely essential during a response. 301 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:44,633 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As I quoted, you write that the willful disregard of scientific expertise 302 00:23:45,733 --> 00:23:49,133 is leading to increasing cases and deaths. 303 00:23:49,133 --> 00:23:54,133 Do you really believe that this interference has cost American lives, that -- people who 304 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,000 would have survived had this interference not occurred? 305 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,433 DR. RICHARD BESSER: I do. I do. 306 00:24:00,433 --> 00:24:05,400 And I also think that that's part of the reason we're seeing such disparate impact on black 307 00:24:07,466 --> 00:24:10,633 Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans, so many of whom are essential workers. 308 00:24:10,633 --> 00:24:15,333 Well, if you're an essential worker, and the people you're having contact with aren't wearing 309 00:24:15,333 --> 00:24:19,633 masks because they don't believe that there's any value to it, you're putting those essential 310 00:24:19,633 --> 00:24:22,133 workers at risk. 311 00:24:22,133 --> 00:24:24,533 And if -- those essential workers, maybe their health is fine, and they're going to do well 312 00:24:24,533 --> 00:24:29,300 with this infection. But higher proportions of black Americans, Latino Americans live 313 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:33,100 in multigenerational households. So they're coming home, and maybe they will give this 314 00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:37,400 infection to somebody who won't handle it so well. That costs lives. 315 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,400 The fact that we're seeing so many young people around the nation going back to their social 316 00:24:44,333 --> 00:24:47,933 lives, feeling like there's nothing to worry about here, that is a total undercut of what 317 00:24:50,066 --> 00:24:52,100 public health science is saying to do. 318 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:56,666 And we need our public health scientists and our political leaders to be on the same page. 319 00:24:56,666 --> 00:24:59,200 And it needs to be the page of science. 320 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,200 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, as you well know from your time running the agency, the CDC 321 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,600 has to walk this very fine line. It has to be close enough to an administration so that 322 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,600 their advice is taken, but it also has to be separate enough so that the public sees 323 00:25:15,033 --> 00:25:18,600 them as a neutral arbiter of public health information. 324 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,600 Do you think, given how grave you're describing this circumstance, that the CDC director, 325 00:25:25,533 --> 00:25:28,833 Robert Redfield, should have stepped forward more forcefully and said, no, I don't think 326 00:25:30,266 --> 00:25:32,800 we're on the right path, we need to do differently? 327 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,066 DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, I think every leader, every CDC director has to -- has to know what 328 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:44,300 their line in the sand is, and recognize that if they're -- if they're forced to step over 329 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,333 that, that they're going to take an action. 330 00:25:47,333 --> 00:25:51,666 It is absolutely essential that the public trusts the information coming from the CDC, 331 00:25:53,733 --> 00:25:57,733 that it's the best evidence. Whenever CDC puts through -- puts a guidance forward, it 332 00:25:57,733 --> 00:26:02,266 goes through clearance. It's shared with other agencies. It's shared with the White House. 333 00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:07,266 That's where you have science and policy interacting, so that what goes forward can be going forward 334 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,600 with a unified front. But, after guidance comes out, it's been unprecedented to see 335 00:26:15,633 --> 00:26:18,933 political leaders undercutting the guidance, telling people they don't need to follow it, 336 00:26:18,933 --> 00:26:21,900 that it's -- that it's overdone, that it's too expensive. 337 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:26,900 The idea that we can open our schools this fall if we have not -- if we don't have this 338 00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:31,733 under control and if we're not providing schools with what they need to -- so that our children 339 00:26:31,733 --> 00:26:36,400 are safe and staff are safe and teachers are safe, this is something that we can do as 340 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,833 a nation, but it has to be driven by that road map that public health is laying out 341 00:26:40,833 --> 00:26:42,966 so clearly. 342 00:26:42,966 --> 00:26:46,833 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, as you know, the CDC has had a few missteps. Their initial 343 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,300 viral test malfunctioned. They seemed for a period of time to be double-counting both 344 00:26:53,166 --> 00:26:55,666 viral tests and antibody tests. 345 00:26:55,666 --> 00:27:00,666 Do you think that some of those missteps might have added to the sort of ammunition that 346 00:27:01,833 --> 00:27:03,333 is being used to shoot at them now? 347 00:27:03,333 --> 00:27:05,433 DR. RICHARD BESSER: Well, it's definitely ammunition. 348 00:27:05,433 --> 00:27:10,366 But I worked at CDC for 13 years and led emergency response for four. There was never a response 349 00:27:13,033 --> 00:27:17,533 effort that we had where we didn't make mistakes. But we had the opportunity every day to talk 350 00:27:17,533 --> 00:27:21,866 to the public and say, here's something we tried. We thought this was the right way to 351 00:27:21,866 --> 00:27:25,000 go. Here's -- it didn't work. Here's what we learned from that. 352 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,000 The CDC doesn't have that opportunity here. So, there's so much conversation about old 353 00:27:30,733 --> 00:27:32,766 mistakes that CDC made. 354 00:27:32,766 --> 00:27:37,233 If CDC were out front, and were talking to the press every day -- one of the things the 355 00:27:37,233 --> 00:27:42,233 press does, it asks the tough questions and makes sure that CDC doesn't have blind spots 356 00:27:44,266 --> 00:27:46,433 around things they should be paying attention to. They're not getting that. 357 00:27:46,433 --> 00:27:50,933 And so not only are they not able to share and build trust. Their response is not as 358 00:27:50,933 --> 00:27:53,333 good because they're not interacting directly. 359 00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:58,333 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Dr. Richard Besser, CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation 360 00:28:00,366 --> 00:28:03,600 and former acting director of the CDC, thank you very, very much for your time. 361 00:28:05,166 --> 00:28:10,166 DR. RICHARD BESSER: Thank you, William. 362 00:28:15,033 --> 00:28:20,033 AMNA NAWAZ: Now the first in a special series of reports about Rethinking College during 363 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,333 COVID. 364 00:28:25,333 --> 00:28:28,533 Many students, families and, of course, colleges and universities are indeed rethinking about 365 00:28:28,533 --> 00:28:32,933 what this fall will be like, as the pandemic continues to dramatically reshape the higher 366 00:28:32,933 --> 00:28:34,966 education landscape. 367 00:28:34,966 --> 00:28:39,233 Our series begins with community colleges, which educate about 40 percent of undergraduates 368 00:28:39,233 --> 00:28:44,233 in the U.S. Many were already stretched thin before the pandemic, but surveys indicate 369 00:28:45,833 --> 00:28:49,366 enrollment is likely to increase as students and workers shift plans. 370 00:28:51,333 --> 00:28:53,733 Correspondent Hari Sreenivasan looks at how one community college and its students are 371 00:28:53,733 --> 00:28:56,166 coping. 372 00:28:56,166 --> 00:28:59,733 HARI SREENIVASAN: Maryland's Montgomery College, just outside D.C., is eerily quiet these days. 373 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,633 During a typical July, the school's three campuses would be bustling with summer school 374 00:29:05,633 --> 00:29:07,633 students. 375 00:29:07,633 --> 00:29:10,566 But like so many colleges and universities around the country, learning here has shifted 376 00:29:10,566 --> 00:29:15,566 from classrooms and labs to bedrooms and living rooms. 377 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:23,700 Montgomery College is one of the country's most diverse community colleges. It's nestled 378 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:28,700 in a county with pockets of poverty and wealth. About 55,000 students ordinarily attend for 379 00:29:30,266 --> 00:29:33,566 accredited degrees and other programs like work force development. 380 00:29:33,566 --> 00:29:37,466 The school was one of the first in the area to announce it will continue remote learning 381 00:29:37,466 --> 00:29:42,466 in the fall with a limited number of small lab classes. It's too early to know how many 382 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,666 will attend next year, but the school is already seeing an uptick in interest. 383 00:29:46,666 --> 00:29:49,300 DERIONNE POLLARD, President, Montgomery College: If I look at my enrollment for summer, we 384 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:54,233 will probably be about 20 percent up in terms of where we were this time last year. 385 00:29:54,233 --> 00:29:56,600 HARI SREENIVASAN: DeRionne Pollard is president of the college. 386 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,866 She says, as the school gears up for increased enrollment, she's staying focused on current 387 00:30:00,866 --> 00:30:03,800 students, many of whom were struggling before the pandemic. 388 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,800 DERIONNE POLLARD: So, our students oftentimes are hungry. They are taking care of multiple 389 00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:15,466 generations at any given time. They're trying to figure out how to get to school. 390 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,766 Many of them live very fragile lives, and they're oftentimes one paycheck away from 391 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,666 disaster. 392 00:30:24,666 --> 00:30:27,366 HARI SREENIVASAN: In March, that disaster struck when businesses began to close. 393 00:30:27,366 --> 00:30:31,833 Many students and their families lost jobs, and some struggled with the move to online 394 00:30:31,833 --> 00:30:36,833 learning. That was the case for 19-year-old graphic design major Kayla Savoy. She says 395 00:30:38,733 --> 00:30:41,933 she enjoys creating and learning about art in her classes, but technology issues and 396 00:30:41,933 --> 00:30:45,233 distractions at home made it difficult to stay focused on school. 397 00:30:45,233 --> 00:30:50,066 KAYLA SAVOY, College Student: The Wi-Fi, absolutely atrocious at my house. There's technically 398 00:30:50,066 --> 00:30:54,933 five or six of us all living at once. You have a toddler screaming about "Paw Patrol" 399 00:30:54,933 --> 00:30:57,900 in the background while your 8:00 a.m. class is going on. 400 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:02,233 HARI SREENIVASAN: Savoy is paying her own way through school and says she managed to 401 00:31:02,233 --> 00:31:06,400 get straight A's last semester. But she's been struggling to find work the last few 402 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,500 months, and it's been hard to pay for things like gas and food. 403 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,833 On top of those concerns, she and many of her classmates have been deeply impacted by 404 00:31:14,833 --> 00:31:16,833 recent events surrounding racial inequities. 405 00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:19,933 KAYLA SAVOY: I got to this point where I was like, I don't know how I'm going to be able 406 00:31:19,933 --> 00:31:24,933 to juggle more than I already have. And then I turn around, and I see more senseless killings 407 00:31:25,533 --> 00:31:27,566 of my people. 408 00:31:27,566 --> 00:31:31,233 And, as a black woman, I fear for so many people that are important in my life. It becomes 409 00:31:31,233 --> 00:31:36,233 just an overwhelming feeling of, what can I do? Can I not study for classes? Can I not 410 00:31:37,433 --> 00:31:40,266 go to the store without my life being in danger? 411 00:31:40,266 --> 00:31:44,333 HARI SREENIVASAN: Montgomery College has been trying to help students cope with many of 412 00:31:44,333 --> 00:31:49,300 these stresses. The school has distributed more than $3.5 million in emergency aid, money 413 00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:55,333 from the federal CARES Act, private donors, established emergency funds, and $400,000 414 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,433 the school saved from canceled end-of-the-year ceremonies. 415 00:32:00,433 --> 00:32:05,200 Early on, local companies donated laptops, and free food was handed out to students and 416 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,766 the surrounding community, where unemployment has jumped up in recent months to nearly 9 417 00:32:09,766 --> 00:32:11,733 percent. 418 00:32:11,733 --> 00:32:13,733 DERIONNE POLLARD: Our students, they don't pop in for eight or nine months out of the 419 00:32:13,733 --> 00:32:18,233 year, live in a residence hall, and they go back to where they came from. They live here. 420 00:32:18,233 --> 00:32:20,600 They work here. They raise families here. 421 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,600 So, as a result of that, the wealth and health of our community is a direct reflection of 422 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,500 the health of our community college, and vice versa. There's a mutuality to that that demands 423 00:32:32,666 --> 00:32:34,666 that we rise up in these moments. 424 00:32:34,666 --> 00:32:39,166 HARI SREENIVASAN: Pollard says this moment also requires thoughtful engagement and action 425 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:44,433 by the school and academia in general to address systemic racism. 426 00:32:44,433 --> 00:32:49,166 During open Zoom forums called Let's Talk, faculty and staff have been facilitating candid 427 00:32:49,166 --> 00:32:51,266 conversations. 428 00:32:51,266 --> 00:32:53,866 ANDRAE BROWN, Professor, Montgomery College: We're literally watching the murder of people 429 00:32:53,866 --> 00:32:58,833 consistently on television over and over and over again. That's not only dehumanizing to 430 00:33:03,133 --> 00:33:06,500 the person, but it desensitizes us to what the value of that life is. 431 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:11,100 HARI SREENIVASAN: And some faculty, like anthropology adjunct Professor Amy Carattini are encouraging 432 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,800 students to explore race and ethnicity in new ways. 433 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,700 Amy Carattini, Professor, Montgomery College: I think it's just so important to make students 434 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:22,700 feel comfortable to talk about these issues. I think there's a lot of nervousness or fear 435 00:33:24,166 --> 00:33:26,333 of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. 436 00:33:26,333 --> 00:33:30,933 HARI SREENIVASAN: But outside of the classroom, some wonder how well Montgomery College and 437 00:33:30,933 --> 00:33:34,866 other community colleges will be able to meet the challenges of these times. 438 00:33:34,866 --> 00:33:37,900 SARA GOLDRICK-RAB, Temple University: Community colleges have been systematically defunded 439 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:42,800 for years, and they were already in a tough situation when it came to resources, when 440 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,466 it came to instructional supports, when it came to being ready to serve these large numbers 441 00:33:47,466 --> 00:33:49,433 of students. 442 00:33:49,433 --> 00:33:52,133 HARI SREENIVASAN: Temple University's Sara Goldrick-Rab is a professor of sociology and 443 00:33:52,133 --> 00:33:56,066 medicine. She and her colleagues recently released a survey that found nearly three 444 00:33:56,066 --> 00:34:01,033 in five college students across the country have experienced basic needs insecurity during 445 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,866 the pandemic. 446 00:34:03,866 --> 00:34:07,766 She says lack of funding can lead to staff shortages and limited course offerings, and 447 00:34:07,766 --> 00:34:12,333 the current job market may make it more difficult for students to get across the finish line. 448 00:34:12,333 --> 00:34:17,166 SARA GOLDRICK-RAB: These students are at very high risk of going to college for all the 449 00:34:17,166 --> 00:34:22,166 right reasons, and leaving because they had very little choice. 450 00:34:24,133 --> 00:34:26,766 People used to work their way through college in the 1970s and the 1980s. They have always 451 00:34:26,766 --> 00:34:31,766 done that. But now work has literally disappeared. This is not a temporary challenge, when these 452 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,766 people, if they drop out of college, they're going to struggle for the next 10 to 15 years, 453 00:34:37,766 --> 00:34:39,900 at least, to repay the debt that they owe. 454 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:43,933 HARI SREENIVASAN: Montgomery College President Pollard has those issues and others on her 455 00:34:43,933 --> 00:34:47,500 plate as she steers the college into what could be a rocky fall. 456 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:51,400 DERIONNE POLLARD: If students do come to us and we know, they will need financial aid. 457 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,500 We know that the state and even the federal government may not be able to provide as much, 458 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,966 because they're trying to raise an economy back up. 459 00:34:58,966 --> 00:35:03,033 We know that there's a lot of uncertainty. But here's the thing about it. We have been 460 00:35:03,033 --> 00:35:08,033 here before. Community colleges have a deep competency in trying to respond to these types 461 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,433 of environments. 462 00:35:11,433 --> 00:35:14,133 HARI SREENIVASAN: Fifty-five thousand students, more or less, will log into their online classes 463 00:35:14,133 --> 00:35:19,133 on August 31, when the fall semester begins, but the school's campuses will remain quiet 464 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,233 for the foreseeable future. 465 00:35:21,233 --> 00:35:25,933 For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Hari Sreenivasan. 466 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,200 AMNA NAWAZ: From landmark decisions on immigration and LGBTQ protections, to virtual oral arguments 467 00:35:43,533 --> 00:35:48,200 amid the pandemic, the Supreme Court concluded a term last week that is certainly one for 468 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,266 the history books. 469 00:35:50,266 --> 00:35:54,233 We take a deeper look into the Roberts court and its blockbuster term with Marcia Coyle, 470 00:35:54,233 --> 00:35:59,233 chief Washington correspondent for "The National Law Journal," Paul Clement, former U.S. solicitor 471 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,366 general during the George W. Bush administration. And Neal Katyal, he served as the acting solicitor 472 00:36:04,366 --> 00:36:06,733 general under President Obama. 473 00:36:06,733 --> 00:36:09,233 Welcome to you all. And thank you for being here. 474 00:36:09,233 --> 00:36:12,766 Neal and Paul, we should point out, between the two of you, you have argued almost 150 475 00:36:12,766 --> 00:36:14,833 cases before the court. 476 00:36:14,833 --> 00:36:18,400 Neal, I'm going to start with you, because I want to get a sense of how you're looking 477 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,533 back on this term. 478 00:36:20,533 --> 00:36:24,233 Earlier in June, there was a sense that this is a court that's leaning actually quite liberal. 479 00:36:24,233 --> 00:36:28,700 There, within a couple weeks, they ruled workers can't be fired for being gay or transgender. 480 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:33,700 They stopped President Trump's effort to end DACA. And they struck down a restrictive abortion 481 00:36:34,433 --> 00:36:36,433 law in Louisiana. 482 00:36:36,433 --> 00:36:39,966 How did you see that string of rulings? Was that an outright win for progressives? 483 00:36:41,933 --> 00:36:43,900 NEAL KATYAL, Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General: Well, I agree that there have been 484 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:46,933 an outright number of wins that progressives have had, the tax returns cases, DACA, the 485 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,300 LGBT cases, the Louisiana abortion case. 486 00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:55,966 In all of them, Donald Trump lost. And I'm not aware of another president, outside of 487 00:36:55,966 --> 00:37:00,600 Richard Nixon, in our lifetimes and perhaps even beyond who has fared worse at the Supreme 488 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,533 Court. 489 00:37:02,533 --> 00:37:06,133 But I really think of it that way, is much more about serious losses for Trump than I 490 00:37:06,133 --> 00:37:09,900 do about the court turning progressive or liberal, which I don't think is true. 491 00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:14,900 Paul and I both know this. We both represented presidents in the Supreme Court. It's pretty 492 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,933 hard to lose if you're representing the president. You got to kind of try. It's like failing 493 00:37:18,933 --> 00:37:20,966 a class at Yale. You got to work at it. 494 00:37:20,966 --> 00:37:24,466 But, here, they have managed to lose a lot. And I don't think it's really as much the 495 00:37:24,466 --> 00:37:29,466 fault of the lawyers, but really outlandish positions by the Trump administration and 496 00:37:30,866 --> 00:37:32,966 outlandish process by the Trump administration. 497 00:37:32,966 --> 00:37:36,500 And so what look like liberal results are really just kind of basic rule of law results. 498 00:37:38,466 --> 00:37:42,166 And I will point you in particular to the tax returns cases, in which President Trump's 499 00:37:42,166 --> 00:37:46,533 own appointees totally rejected his position of absolute immunity. 500 00:37:46,533 --> 00:37:48,500 AMNA NAWAZ: Paul, what's your take on that? 501 00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,400 When you look at those particular string of rulings, how did you assess them? 502 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,633 PAUL CLEMENT, Former U.S. Solicitor General: Well, I think that, on a number of these cases, 503 00:37:54,633 --> 00:37:59,200 you really do have to look at the context of what the court is specifically wrestling 504 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,300 with. 505 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:05,200 Those tax return cases were very unprecedented cases. And I think, in some respects, it is 506 00:38:07,266 --> 00:38:10,933 not that unprecedented for a president to lose big, even with his own nominees, when 507 00:38:12,966 --> 00:38:17,233 it comes to executive power. President Clinton sort of famously lost Clinton against Jones 508 00:38:18,633 --> 00:38:23,566 9-0 and lost two of his nominees along the way in that case. 509 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:28,633 So I do think it really depends a lot on the nature of the particular issues. And I think 510 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,800 that, if you look two weeks ago, before the end of the term, it was looking quite liberal. 511 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,800 But, by the end of the term, there were a number of religious liberty cases in particular 512 00:38:40,233 --> 00:38:42,133 that kind of made it a much more nuanced story in the end. 513 00:38:42,133 --> 00:38:44,933 AMNA NAWAZ: And I want to get to those in more detail in just a second. 514 00:38:44,933 --> 00:38:49,833 Before we do though, Marcia, I have to ask you. When you look at the abortion decision, 515 00:38:49,833 --> 00:38:53,833 for example, in that case, there were four liberal justices who voted to strike down 516 00:38:53,833 --> 00:38:57,633 the law. And it was Chief Justice John Roberts who sided with them. 517 00:38:57,633 --> 00:39:01,533 Talk to me a little bit about the role that Roberts has played on this court. And, at 518 00:39:01,533 --> 00:39:04,800 the same time, we should mention he had a very full plate. He was also presiding over 519 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,866 the impeachment proceedings. 520 00:39:06,866 --> 00:39:08,900 MARCIA COYLE, "The National Law Journal": That's right, Amna. It was an extraordinary 521 00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:10,900 term on many levels. 522 00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:15,733 But, as far as John Roberts goes, I will take the maybe 30,000-mile view of the term and 523 00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:22,500 say that this was a term that began with a number of cases that were fraught with political 524 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:29,400 and partisan implications. And I think the Supreme Court emerged unscathed by or untarnished 525 00:39:33,733 --> 00:39:37,200 by either of those because of John Roberts. 526 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,200 He was able, by forming cross-ideological majorities, to steer the court through those 527 00:39:44,166 --> 00:39:48,633 cases, and to sort of confirm what he has been trying to tell the public in some very 528 00:39:50,233 --> 00:39:55,100 rare public statements, that the court is an independent institution. 529 00:39:55,100 --> 00:40:00,100 Certainly, a number of conservatives did hope that, with the confirmation of Justices Kavanaugh 530 00:40:02,066 --> 00:40:06,833 and Gorsuch, that there would be a rock-solid conservative majority on the court. And that 531 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:10,400 is not the case. 532 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,333 It really does depend often on the nature of the cases that come before them. But I 533 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,633 really think, if you wanted to look at winners and losers in the term that just ended, you 534 00:40:22,666 --> 00:40:26,733 would have to say that the winner was the U.S. Supreme Court, because it did emerge 535 00:40:28,633 --> 00:40:32,266 unscathed from so many of those cases that could have painted -- if there had been 5-4 536 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,400 decisions in the normal ideological split, it could have been painted as a partisan institution. 537 00:40:41,466 --> 00:40:43,700 AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Paul, I want to get back to some of those cases you mentioned involving 538 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:46,433 religious freedom, because there were a few. 539 00:40:46,433 --> 00:40:50,266 And there seemed to be somewhat of a trend when it came to how those went. There was 540 00:40:50,266 --> 00:40:54,833 one shielding religious schools from lawsuits on employment discrimination, another one 541 00:40:54,833 --> 00:40:59,833 upholding the Trump administration rule that employers can deny contraceptive coverage 542 00:40:59,833 --> 00:41:01,933 on religious or moral grounds. 543 00:41:01,933 --> 00:41:05,366 When you look at the body of those decisions, what was the message you think the court was 544 00:41:05,366 --> 00:41:07,900 sending? 545 00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:11,300 PAUL CLEMENT: Well, I think adherence of religion and people trying to vindicate rights to religious 546 00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:15,166 liberty did incredibly well in all of those cases. 547 00:41:15,166 --> 00:41:20,166 And in every one of those cases, they got the vote of Chief Justice Roberts. Some of 548 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:25,533 those cases were more in the 7-2 department than the 5-4 decision. One of the most consequential, 549 00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:31,600 the Espinoza case about school choice and the role of state constitutions in limiting 550 00:41:33,533 --> 00:41:38,533 school choice, I think was a 5-4 decision and a big victory for religious liberty. 551 00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:43,633 So, I do think those cases underscore that John Roberts is not a liberal or even a moderate 552 00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:49,900 when it comes to some issues. And I think it really depends on the nature of the issues 553 00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:52,566 that come before the court in a particular term. 554 00:41:52,566 --> 00:41:56,466 AMNA NAWAZ: Neal, what about you? When you look at those specific cases involving this 555 00:41:56,466 --> 00:41:59,600 one issue of religious freedom, which we know is very important to the Trump administration, 556 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,633 how do you look back on this term? 557 00:42:01,633 --> 00:42:06,300 NEAL KATYAL: Well, I think Paul's absolutely right. The religious freedom cases show the 558 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:09,600 conservative, so-called conservatives won a lot. 559 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,700 And I agree with him that you have to look to the overall context. It's just the number 560 00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:17,700 of cases here in which the Trump administration position lost is pretty extraordinary. 561 00:42:19,733 --> 00:42:24,133 And so Marcia puts it better than me when she says, the Supreme Court is the winner 562 00:42:24,133 --> 00:42:29,133 in last term. I would say a footnote to that is, I think the rule of law was also a winner. 563 00:42:30,666 --> 00:42:33,533 I mean, our country is so bitterly politically divided right now. 564 00:42:33,533 --> 00:42:38,200 And the Supreme Court, really, and because of Chief Justice Roberts' ability to steer 565 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,200 the court, really points to a different way, a way of mutual respect, a way in which we 566 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,300 can listen to those from the other side and be the -- forge agreements with them. 567 00:42:50,333 --> 00:42:52,900 It was really, I think, a majestic thing to behold. And it's not a liberal thing. And 568 00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:57,833 I don't think the chief justice is some liberal. The best evidence of that is, at 2:00 a.m. 569 00:42:57,833 --> 00:43:02,533 this morning, he cast the fifth vote to resume the federal death penalty, when the litigants 570 00:43:02,533 --> 00:43:05,466 didn't even have a chance to brief and argue all their challenges. 571 00:43:05,466 --> 00:43:10,366 So I think everyone should be careful when they use liberal or conservative terms with 572 00:43:10,366 --> 00:43:12,533 respect to the court. 573 00:43:12,533 --> 00:43:15,766 AMNA NAWAZ: Marcia, as we reported earlier, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is back in the hospital. 574 00:43:15,766 --> 00:43:20,033 Obviously, there have been some health concerns among the Supreme Court justices. 575 00:43:20,033 --> 00:43:24,033 As you look ahead to the next term, tell me a little bit about how we should be thinking 576 00:43:24,033 --> 00:43:28,566 about some of the cases ahead and some of the general concerns about the health of those 577 00:43:28,566 --> 00:43:30,600 justices. 578 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,566 MARCIA COYLE: Well, I think, Amna, when you look at the ages of some of the justices, 579 00:43:36,466 --> 00:43:39,866 you have Justice Ginsburg now 86, I believe. You have Justice Breyer 81. Several other 580 00:43:42,033 --> 00:43:47,033 justices are over 65 and are in that age group that is most vulnerable to the COVID-19 virus, 581 00:43:50,033 --> 00:43:55,033 that you have to take pause and wonder if, next term, there could be some changes in 582 00:43:57,633 --> 00:44:01,166 the court's personnel on the bench. 583 00:44:01,166 --> 00:44:06,166 So that may very well be something to watch closely. I know that the Trump administration 584 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,833 is hoping once again to make the court an issue in the presidential election. 585 00:44:12,833 --> 00:44:17,833 Right now, though, I don't think that is going to figure into how the justices deliberate 586 00:44:19,866 --> 00:44:24,700 at all. Don't count Justice Ginsburg out. She is -- has been remarkably resilient. 587 00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:27,933 AMNA NAWAZ: It is a court to watch. 588 00:44:27,933 --> 00:44:31,766 And, of course, I'm sure we all wish Justice Ginsburg a speedy recovery. 589 00:44:31,766 --> 00:44:35,233 That is Marcia Coyle, Neal Katyal, and Paul Clement. 590 00:44:35,233 --> 00:44:37,300 Thanks so much for being with us. 591 00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:41,966 MARCIA COYLE: My pleasure. 592 00:44:41,966 --> 00:44:46,666 PAUL CLEMENT: Thank you. 593 00:44:46,666 --> 00:44:51,333 NEAL KATYAL: Thank you. 594 00:44:51,333 --> 00:44:56,333 AMNA NAWAZ: In the wake of protests against systemic racism in America, many industries 595 00:44:58,233 --> 00:45:02,833 are reexamining past practices and facing questions about their own racial biases. 596 00:45:04,233 --> 00:45:07,000 One new effort puts a spotlight on the world of publishing. 597 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,566 Here's Jeffrey Brown's Race Matters report. 598 00:45:09,566 --> 00:45:12,933 That's part of our ongoing arts and culture series, Canvas. 599 00:45:12,933 --> 00:45:17,933 JEFFREY BROWN: It began as a social media call out, #PublishingPaidMe, a request for 600 00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:23,900 authors to reveal the advances they have been paid for their books. 601 00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:28,900 The result, based on responses from hundreds of writers, a clear disparity between black 602 00:45:29,633 --> 00:45:31,566 and non-black authors. 603 00:45:31,566 --> 00:45:35,933 The hashtag was started by L.L. McKinney, a writer of fantasy novels for young adults. 604 00:45:35,933 --> 00:45:40,333 L.L. MCKINNEY, Author, "A Dream So Dark": This advance has a lot to do with how well 605 00:45:40,333 --> 00:45:43,400 the publisher thinks the story will do. 606 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,400 And a lot of that has to do with this idea of a universal story. If a certain story is 607 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,366 more universal, then more people will have access to it. And this highlights what publishing 608 00:45:57,433 --> 00:46:00,100 views as the default for the universal story. 609 00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:04,900 JEFFREY BROWN: The call-out struck a nerve, and many prominent black authors weighed in, 610 00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:09,900 including novelist Jesmyn Ward, who wrote of how she fought and fought for a $100,000 611 00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:15,866 advance for her third novel, "Sing, Unburied, Sing," even after her second, "Salvage the 612 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,300 Bones," for which she received about $20,000, had won the National Book Award for fiction. 613 00:46:23,133 --> 00:46:27,566 By contrast, Lydia Kiesling, who is white, wrote of receiving a $200,000 advance for 614 00:46:29,533 --> 00:46:33,433 her literary debut. N.K. Jemisin, a black novelist who won the Hugo Award recognizing 615 00:46:35,466 --> 00:46:40,033 the best science fiction and fantasy writing three years in a row, said she received just 616 00:46:41,933 --> 00:46:45,600 $25,000 advances for each of the books in her award-winning Broken Earth trilogy. 617 00:46:47,633 --> 00:46:51,233 L.L. MCKINNEY: You have an award-winning author who is beloved by so many, you know, right 618 00:46:53,266 --> 00:46:56,933 on up to presidents picking up her book, you know, vs. some people who we have never heard 619 00:47:01,233 --> 00:47:05,033 of, because the book doesn't earn out or it flops. 620 00:47:05,033 --> 00:47:09,533 But then that person can turn around and get that same advance and a second chance. 621 00:47:09,533 --> 00:47:12,566 JEFFREY BROWN: The outpouring on Twitter confirmed many suspicions. 622 00:47:12,566 --> 00:47:17,566 L.L. MCKINNEY: I knew that there was a disparity. I didn't realize how large the disparity was. 623 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,700 Like, we knew it was there, and we knew it was big, but we didn't know it was that big. 624 00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:28,700 WOMAN: A new novel by Jeanine Cummins up a debate about white privilege, racism in publishing 625 00:47:30,933 --> 00:47:34,566 and the unintended consequences of telling a story that is not your own. 626 00:47:34,566 --> 00:47:38,800 JEFFREY BROWN: Earlier this year, the publishing industry came under fire over issues of pay 627 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,800 and representation for the novel "American Dirt," a story of Mexican migrants written 628 00:47:45,733 --> 00:47:49,400 by a non-Mexican author, Jeanine Cummins, who reportedly received a seven-figure advance. 629 00:47:51,433 --> 00:47:56,233 Some prominent Latino writers found the story inauthentic, advancing harmful stereotypes. 630 00:47:57,633 --> 00:48:00,266 For L.L. McKinney, all these issues are personal. 631 00:48:00,266 --> 00:48:05,200 L.L. MCKINNEY: I was a kid who loved science fiction and fantasy, but science fiction and 632 00:48:06,066 --> 00:48:08,300 fantasy did not love me back. 633 00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:13,300 If I was on the page, I was the sassy best friend, or I was the enemy, or I was the help, 634 00:48:16,166 --> 00:48:21,166 or I was the gangbanger. As a child, I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate what I was 635 00:48:23,166 --> 00:48:27,200 seeing and feeling. But now that I do, that's what I want to change for the readers of today 636 00:48:28,066 --> 00:48:30,066 and the readers of the future. 637 00:48:30,066 --> 00:48:34,533 JEFFREY BROWN: Also now thinking of those readers, Dana Canedy, newly appointed publisher 638 00:48:36,566 --> 00:48:39,800 of Simon & Schuster. A former New York Times journalist and more recently administrator 639 00:48:41,866 --> 00:48:45,133 of the Pulitzer Prizes, she becomes the first black person to head a major publishing house. 640 00:48:46,433 --> 00:48:50,266 Dana Canedy joins me now from New York. 641 00:48:50,266 --> 00:48:52,833 Dana Canedy, welcome to you. 642 00:48:52,833 --> 00:48:56,500 So, let's start with that hashtag #PublishingPaidMe. It put a spotlight on black writers being 643 00:48:57,966 --> 00:49:00,333 paid less and, therefore, a sense of being valued less. 644 00:49:00,333 --> 00:49:05,066 Now, I know you're new to this industry, but what do you see? How do you respond to something 645 00:49:05,066 --> 00:49:07,166 like that? 646 00:49:07,166 --> 00:49:09,233 DANA CANEDY, Senior Vice President and Publisher, Simon & Schuster: Well, I think it's going 647 00:49:09,233 --> 00:49:11,733 to be my job to make sure that doesn't happen at Simon & Schuster and hopefully to be able 648 00:49:11,733 --> 00:49:16,166 to influence the larger publishing community as well. 649 00:49:16,166 --> 00:49:20,366 There's no excuse for that. And I wouldn't have stood for it when I was writing my book. 650 00:49:20,366 --> 00:49:25,366 Thankfully, that didn't happen to me. But, as a leader in this industry now, I want to 651 00:49:27,366 --> 00:49:31,933 hear from folks who have had those experiences and figure out how we can solve it. 652 00:49:31,933 --> 00:49:36,266 JEFFREY BROWN: Many cultural institutions, of course, are now reexamining themselves 653 00:49:36,266 --> 00:49:39,533 in light of the Black Lives Matter protest. 654 00:49:39,533 --> 00:49:44,533 In what specific ways -- publishing has long been seen as an insular and largely white 655 00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:49,966 in its makeup as an industry. In what specific ways do you think it should look at itself 656 00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:53,000 and change? 657 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,900 DANA CANEDY: It's very funny to me when people say that publishing fits that sort of M.O., 658 00:49:58,833 --> 00:50:03,500 because you could be talking about law, or really sort of any other industry. 659 00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:08,566 I think industries in general need to look at themselves, publishing included. And I, 660 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,733 for many years, headed up diversity and inclusion initiatives at The New York Times as part 661 00:50:17,333 --> 00:50:21,133 of my portfolio as a senior manager there, a senior newsroom leader. 662 00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:26,333 And so I have a lot of tools in my tool chest that I can call upon. But I think, for Simon 663 00:50:28,333 --> 00:50:31,133 & Schuster specifically, I don't have the answers yet. I need to get -- start the job, 664 00:50:31,133 --> 00:50:35,633 get in there, roll up my sleeves, and see what they're doing and where there are opportunities 665 00:50:35,633 --> 00:50:37,700 for growth. 666 00:50:37,700 --> 00:50:41,066 So, one thing anybody who works with me knows is, I'm very honest. I'm not going to pretend 667 00:50:41,066 --> 00:50:46,033 to have answers that I don't. So I will get in there, talk to the staff, talk to the leadership, 668 00:50:46,933 --> 00:50:49,066 and figure out where we go. 669 00:50:49,066 --> 00:50:53,066 We will have -- and they may already, but we will have a comprehensive approach to diversity 670 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,300 of all kinds. I just need to get into the company and figure out where we need to go. 671 00:51:01,366 --> 00:51:06,166 And then I don't think it's enough, as a leader in this industry who happens to be a person 672 00:51:07,333 --> 00:51:09,400 of color, to just look at Simon & Schuster. 673 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,300 I want to influence the entire publishing community. It's a little early to answer how, 674 00:51:16,233 --> 00:51:18,633 but I will. And you can check back with me in a year and hold me accountable. 675 00:51:18,633 --> 00:51:21,666 JEFFREY BROWN: OK, we -- I hope we will get a chance to do that. 676 00:51:21,666 --> 00:51:26,666 But I mentioned the case, the debate around the novel "American Dirt." And I wonder. You're 677 00:51:29,066 --> 00:51:31,733 a reader. You're a writer yourself. Do you - - when you look at this world of publishing, 678 00:51:34,133 --> 00:51:37,200 do you see a lack of opportunities for writers of color? Do you see a lack of voices being 679 00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:39,833 heard? 680 00:51:39,833 --> 00:51:43,366 DANA CANEDY: So, I think that's changed in recent years, and there's more opportunity 681 00:51:43,366 --> 00:51:48,333 than ever before, historically. And not even in the very distant past, that's been the 682 00:51:49,466 --> 00:51:51,600 case. 683 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,166 I do think it's changing. And I think it will continue to because of the movement that's 684 00:51:54,166 --> 00:51:58,233 taken hold in this country. I also think that's where I'm going to have tremendous influence 685 00:51:58,233 --> 00:52:03,200 to bring in different voices, both established authors, but emerging voices that could be 686 00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:06,800 very important. 687 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,933 We have a lot of work to do. We have to do it collectively. I'm one person in one company. 688 00:52:12,866 --> 00:52:16,033 But I think that there are some opportunities for leaders across publishing houses to put 689 00:52:18,033 --> 00:52:21,366 our heads together and figure out how we can influence this issue, how we can improve things 690 00:52:23,300 --> 00:52:27,666 related to both subject matter, pay equity for advances, the voices and the authors that 691 00:52:31,633 --> 00:52:33,733 get highlighted. 692 00:52:33,733 --> 00:52:37,633 All of that provides, in my view, an exciting opportunity to improve things. And I will 693 00:52:38,833 --> 00:52:40,866 do that. I will as best I can. 694 00:52:40,866 --> 00:52:45,733 JEFFREY BROWN: I know -- we just have 30 seconds, but I read that your son calls you, what, 695 00:52:45,733 --> 00:52:47,800 word nerd. 696 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,333 I know you love books. But why take this job? I mean (AUDIO GAP) what is it you hope to 697 00:52:51,333 --> 00:52:53,433 do, and why did you want it? 698 00:52:53,433 --> 00:52:56,466 DANA CANEDY: Well, I think it's a tremendous opportunity to work with somebody I admire 699 00:52:56,466 --> 00:53:00,800 greatly, Jonathan Karp, who's one of the best minds in the business. I wanted to work with 700 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,233 him. 701 00:53:03,233 --> 00:53:05,600 I also think I can have influence in the ways you and I just discussed. And I will, and 702 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,600 I intend to. But, also, I'm a word nerd. I love words. So, this is like a dream job. 703 00:53:12,466 --> 00:53:14,533 JEFFREY BROWN: All right, Dana Canedy is the new publisher of Simon & Schuster. 704 00:53:14,533 --> 00:53:16,000 Thank you, and good luck. 705 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,000 DANA CANEDY: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 706 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,466 AMNA NAWAZ: And tonight on the "PBS NewsHour" online, another episode of our podcast "America, 707 00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:39,566 Interrupted." 708 00:53:39,566 --> 00:53:43,466 As the U.S. grapples with how to reopen and contain the coronavirus, we go across the 709 00:53:43,466 --> 00:53:48,466 pond to the U.K. to hear about what we might learn from how Brits are handling the pandemic. 710 00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:54,333 Listen on our Web site. That's PBS.org/NewsHour or wherever you get your podcasts. 711 00:53:56,333 --> 00:54:00,533 Also on the "NewsHour" online, "Citizen" by Claudia Rankine is our July selection for 712 00:54:00,533 --> 00:54:05,500 Now Read This, our book club with The New York Times. It's a collection of essays, images 713 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,533 and poetry that consider how collective expressions of racism play out in contemporary society. 714 00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:16,600 Rankine recently told the "NewsHour" about how a natural disaster, Hurricane Katrina, 715 00:54:18,033 --> 00:54:20,333 prompted her to focus her work on race in America. 716 00:54:20,333 --> 00:54:23,700 And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight. I'm Amna Nawaz. 717 00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:28,466 Join us online and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour," thank 718 00:54:28,466 --> 00:54:31,033 you, please stay safe, and we'll see you soon.