WEBVTT 00:01.466 --> 00:03.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And now to the analysis of Shields and Brooks. 00:03.500 --> 00:06.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks. 00:06.900 --> 00:08.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Gentlemen, welcome. 00:08.966 --> 00:13.333 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% Big news, the equivalent of an earthquake, I guess, in Washington, political earthquake. 00:13.333 --> 00:17.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Mark, what does it mean that Anthony Kennedy is stepping down from the Supreme Court? 00:17.600 --> 00:19.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% What does it mean for the court? 00:19.466 --> 00:21.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What does it mean for the city, for the country? 00:21.633 --> 00:23.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: It's significant. 00:23.066 --> 00:25.166 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 00:25.166 --> 00:29.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: No, let me just say, God likes Donald Trump, because she has now given him 00:31.566 --> 00:35.133 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% a second appointee to the Supreme Court, something that Barack Obama, in eight years, got two. 00:36.300 --> 00:37.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Bill Clinton in eight years got two. 00:37.566 --> 00:39.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% George W. Bush in eight years got two. 00:39.600 --> 00:42.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He's getting two in 18 months. 00:42.466 --> 00:47.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Anthony Kennedy is getting encomiums of praise, in large part, Judy, two sources. 00:49.266 --> 00:50.666 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% One, he was a gentleman. 00:50.666 --> 00:52.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He was considerate to those around him. 00:52.400 --> 00:57.166 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% He didn't -- there was no personalizing or polarizing to him. 00:57.166 --> 01:00.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And that is welcome and refreshing in this Washington. 01:00.000 --> 01:04.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the second thing is, he was a liberal on individual rights and sort of social issues. 01:07.666 --> 01:09.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% He wasn't on economic issues. 01:09.800 --> 01:13.933 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% He always came down on the side of corporations against consumers and the side of the employer 01:15.066 --> 01:17.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% against -- the boss. 01:17.166 --> 01:21.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And he wrote probably the worst opinion, in my judgment, in the history of American politics, 01:23.200 --> 01:28.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the campaign -- permitting corporations to make unlimited campaign contributions, and 01:30.733 --> 01:35.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% allowing the gushing of water -- of money into campaigns. 01:35.066 --> 01:40.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But he will -- he has been a key vote on capital punishment, on a whole host of issues, including 01:45.700 --> 01:50.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% gay marriage and ratifying Roe v. Wade. 01:52.700 --> 01:56.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, in that sense, the nominee will be to the right of him, and it will perhaps energize 02:00.333 --> 02:01.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Republicans who were not energized about 2018. 02:01.966 --> 02:03.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you see his legacy first? 02:03.966 --> 02:07.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Well, first, it struck me that a lot of my progressive friends are reacting 02:07.166 --> 02:12.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% like losing Kennedy is like losing, I don't know, Franklin Roosevelt. 02:14.666 --> 02:16.733 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Like, suddenly, they're all on his side, which is odd to me, because, in most of his decisions, 02:16.733 --> 02:20.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Citizens United and Bush v. Gore, he voted very solidly with the conservatives. 02:20.600 --> 02:24.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But it shows the prominence of two issues for progressives, which is abortion and gay 02:24.366 --> 02:28.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% marriage, and it shows how the social issues really are what motivate people these days. 02:28.933 --> 02:33.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I would say I would characterize him as a pragmatic libertarian, tended to emphasize 02:33.533 --> 02:36.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% individual rights and freedoms. 02:36.066 --> 02:39.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And so sometimes that went a little -- a lot of time, it went a little right. 02:39.266 --> 02:41.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Sometimes, it went a little left. 02:41.266 --> 02:44.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But it tended to be an individualistic mind-set, which had some good virtues. 02:44.200 --> 02:48.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I thought it -- in general, it weakened any sense of community, any of sense of, we have 02:48.666 --> 02:52.400 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% a shared nation, because his world view was so individualistic. 02:52.400 --> 02:57.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Nonetheless, he was just a very cordial man, a very good man to be around in Washington, 02:57.366 --> 03:00.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% an exemplar of an old style public servant. 03:00.100 --> 03:01.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% As for the politics, I agree with Mark. 03:01.766 --> 03:03.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's just a total gift for Republicans. 03:03.433 --> 03:05.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It will unify the right. 03:05.066 --> 03:07.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It will energize the right. 03:07.166 --> 03:11.200 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% It will energize the left, too, but more -- in the coming campaign, it puts pressure on the 03:13.333 --> 03:15.300 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% people in the middle. 03:15.300 --> 03:17.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And so Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins on the Republican side, it puts some pressure 03:17.933 --> 03:20.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% on them, but I don't think a whole lot. 03:20.500 --> 03:21.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% They voted for Gorsuch. 03:21.633 --> 03:24.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Gorsuch, that's right. 03:24.066 --> 03:25.900 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: But it puts a bunch of pressure on the centrist Democrats who are running 03:25.900 --> 03:27.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in the red states. 03:27.833 --> 03:30.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I think puts more pressure on the Democrats than it does on the Republicans. 03:30.300 --> 03:31.533 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 03:31.533 --> 03:33.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Yes, I agree with David. 03:33.666 --> 03:37.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Joe Manchin in West Virginia, who I think has to be favored for reelection, as a Democrat 03:37.366 --> 03:42.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% in a state, Donald Trump's best state, he won by 42 percent, that is going to be a difficult 03:42.066 --> 03:47.066 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% vote for him, especially if Mitch McConnell, in all likelihood, holds the vote around Halloween 03:48.200 --> 03:51.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to keep attention riveted on the issue. 03:51.766 --> 03:56.766 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota, a state that Donald Trump carried by 36 percent, Democratic 03:57.400 --> 03:58.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% incumbent. 03:58.933 --> 04:02.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Joe Donnelly in Indiana that he carried by 17 percent. 04:04.733 --> 04:07.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And Claire McCaskill in Missouri that Donald Trump carried by 19 percent. 04:07.533 --> 04:11.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It's going to be a lot of political pressure for them. 04:11.166 --> 04:16.166 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% Judy, the key to me is, this is a bigger issue, the Supreme Court has been, for conservatives 04:17.933 --> 04:20.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and Republicans than it has been historically for Democrats. 04:20.733 --> 04:25.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% For example, in the exit polls in 2016, the Clinton-Trump race, 26 percent of the Republican 04:27.700 --> 04:32.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% voters said the Supreme Court and who sat on it was an urgent vote matter to them, to 04:33.800 --> 04:35.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the point that it affected and influenced their votes. 04:35.733 --> 04:39.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Only 18 percent of Democrats said it was for them. 04:39.966 --> 04:44.966 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% So, it's a built-in emotional advantage at a time when Republican enthusiasm and interest 04:46.900 --> 04:50.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in the 2018 campaign has been sapping and had been draining. 04:50.166 --> 04:53.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: That may -- I wonder if that will change now because this pick obviously 04:53.633 --> 04:56.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% puts Roe v. Wade right at the center of our politics. 04:56.866 --> 04:59.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And it will actually open up something very interesting. 04:59.833 --> 05:03.066 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% I don't think it's -- the nightmare scenario on either side, I don't think it's probably 05:03.066 --> 05:04.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% going to happen. 05:04.066 --> 05:05.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Which is? 05:05.066 --> 05:07.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% What is... 05:07.100 --> 05:07.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Which is that that Roe v. Wade will suddenly be overturned. 05:07.900 --> 05:10.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes. 05:10.033 --> 05:13.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Because there is a precedent which Secretary -- Justice Roberts has maintained 05:15.633 --> 05:18.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% through most of the terms -- and the Obamacare case is a good example -- of saying, I may 05:18.866 --> 05:21.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% agree, I may not agree, but what is settled law is settled law. 05:21.633 --> 05:24.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% He has tended to be biased in that direction. 05:24.233 --> 05:27.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And as we go through the hearings, whoever the nominee is, that's what they are going 05:27.733 --> 05:29.766 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% to say. 05:29.766 --> 05:32.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And so they may disagree in principle on Roe v. Wade, but it is -- it's reasonably settled, 05:32.933 --> 05:34.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% so they may hedge it or something. 05:34.900 --> 05:38.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But it -- I'm not sure we're looking at some massive overturn of Roe v. Wade either way. 05:38.333 --> 05:41.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But neither one of you sees any hindrance, anything standing in front 05:41.566 --> 05:43.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of the president getting his choice for the court? 05:43.833 --> 05:46.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Sure, the choice himself. 05:46.733 --> 05:51.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We have had nominees rejected before because of something that was discovered or and their 05:51.666 --> 05:53.666 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% position. 05:53.666 --> 05:57.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I would just take one exception to David, and that is, over the last generation, Gallup 05:57.666 --> 05:59.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% has polled every single year. 05:59.733 --> 06:04.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Americans have more -- far more tolerant and far less censorious about having a child out 06:06.200 --> 06:10.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% of wedlock, or gay rights, or extramarital relations. 06:13.966 --> 06:18.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But moral acceptability of abortion remains divided exactly where it was 25 years ago. 06:20.933 --> 06:25.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So it is an organizing and galvanizing issue still to this day, even though I think David's 06:27.766 --> 06:32.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% right that the status quo or precedent works to the advantage of those who would preserve 06:34.033 --> 06:36.066 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% it. 06:36.066 --> 06:38.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But how about it if it becomes the central issue in the campaign of 2018? 06:38.000 --> 06:41.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Does that help the Democrats or not? 06:41.366 --> 06:44.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Does it turn out Republicans who might not have -- who might have sat home? 06:44.833 --> 06:49.833 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And speaking of that, the Kennedy announcement, David, came the day after progressive 06:51.766 --> 06:53.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Democrats did surprisingly well in a number of the primaries this week. 06:53.833 --> 06:58.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And you had this unusual -- shocking result in New York, where Joseph Crowley, who was 07:02.366 --> 07:06.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% somebody who was a part of the Democratic establishment in the House of Representatives 07:06.200 --> 07:11.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and leadership, was beaten by a 28-year-old young woman who is seen as a self-described 07:14.100 --> 07:16.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% socialist Democrat. 07:16.166 --> 07:20.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% What's going on with the Democrats, and how do you -- now that we have got the Supreme 07:20.466 --> 07:24.366 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Court move, how do you see that playing on top of what's happened? 07:24.366 --> 07:26.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: Yes. 07:26.033 --> 07:27.866 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% The core question to me is whether this is David Brat all over again. 07:27.866 --> 07:30.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And David Brat is the guy in Virginia who beat Eric Cantor. 07:30.033 --> 07:32.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And that was a precursor to the Trump phenomenon. 07:32.366 --> 07:36.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It was a sign that anger at establishment Republicans was so high that the party was 07:36.733 --> 07:39.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% about to undergo some fundamental earthquake. 07:39.666 --> 07:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And that could be true. 07:42.766 --> 07:47.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the Crowley loss, to me, was just one data point among a lot of data points. 07:47.633 --> 07:51.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And there have been some of these races where the Sanders candidate has won, but there's 07:51.833 --> 07:55.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% been a lot where the mainstream Democratic candidate has won. 07:55.233 --> 08:00.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I so think the balance of the evidence so far is that Democratic voters around the 08:02.900 --> 08:05.566 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% country are not upset with Democratic establishment the way Republican voters were with the Republican. 08:06.433 --> 08:08.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So I do not see a Sanders wave. 08:08.466 --> 08:12.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I see these one-off cases where you -- this was a very distinct district with a very, 08:12.533 --> 08:14.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% very talented candidate. 08:14.533 --> 08:18.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And so she pulled off this amazing victory, but I don't see yet it as a part of a national 08:18.600 --> 08:19.833 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% trend. 08:19.833 --> 08:21.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you see it, Mark? 08:21.366 --> 08:22.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: I don't see it as part of a national trend. 08:22.666 --> 08:25.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Joe Crowley was an exceptionally popular Democrat. 08:25.166 --> 08:29.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% He didn't fit the pattern of somebody who had grown remote from his district. 08:29.833 --> 08:34.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% He was the Queens Democratic boss, a position he had inherited from his predecessor. 08:36.900 --> 08:40.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the axiom -- maxim that all politics is local, which has seemed to be repealed by 08:42.333 --> 08:44.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% all politics being national, reasserted itself. 08:44.900 --> 08:49.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I mean, this is a district, Judy, that has changed, demographically, dramatically. 08:49.733 --> 08:54.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I mean, it's now a distinctly plurality of Hispanic voters, minority voters, and it's 08:57.266 --> 08:58.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% down to fewer than out of one out of five. 08:58.766 --> 09:01.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So, it is the House of Representatives. 09:01.333 --> 09:03.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And I will say one thing about Joe Crowley. 09:03.866 --> 09:08.233 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% His concession was as gracious, compared to Donald Trump's continuing to savage Mark Sanford 09:09.333 --> 09:11.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and gratuitously attacking Joe Crowley. 09:11.833 --> 09:13.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It was -- he sang "Born to Run," Bruce Springsteen, song. 09:13.700 --> 09:16.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Sang a song dedicated to her. 09:16.500 --> 09:18.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: And dedicated to her, to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. 09:18.366 --> 09:20.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you see it as a one-off? 09:20.433 --> 09:24.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: Well, I mean, it's the first time a Democrat incumbent has lost in three 09:25.033 --> 09:26.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% elections. 09:26.033 --> 09:28.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% David described Cantor. 09:28.100 --> 09:32.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% There had been a lot of Senate upsets where the right and the liberty group and the Tea 09:33.200 --> 09:35.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Party had asserted itself before that. 09:35.166 --> 09:38.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: There was -- also, it came at a time when the border issue is such a vital 09:38.166 --> 09:41.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% issue, which aroused a lot of people's sense of, we have got to have our people in there. 09:41.733 --> 09:43.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Yes. 09:43.800 --> 09:45.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And so -- but, nonetheless, it still has to be said that voters are upset 09:45.833 --> 09:46.833 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% with establishments. 09:46.833 --> 09:49.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: Yes. 09:49.333 --> 09:50.833 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And it's not unprecedented -- unlikely that we're going to get more of these. 09:50.833 --> 09:52.733 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: So, quickly, you mentioned the border. 09:52.733 --> 09:55.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Where does the administration stand right now on immigration? 09:55.233 --> 10:00.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I talked to Marc Short, the White House legislative affairs director, a few minutes ago. 10:01.100 --> 10:03.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Mark, what do we see here? 10:03.166 --> 10:06.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You still have families being separated when they come across the border. 10:06.566 --> 10:08.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: You do, Judy. 10:08.500 --> 10:12.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And you have got competing jurisdictions here of agencies, Health and Human Services. 10:12.166 --> 10:13.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You have got the Department of Justice. 10:13.433 --> 10:14.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% You have got Homeland Security. 10:14.633 --> 10:16.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% You have got the Border Patrol. 10:16.033 --> 10:18.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% You have got all of these issues. 10:18.333 --> 10:22.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think the time has come, if the president is serious about it, if the country is serious 10:22.233 --> 10:24.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% about it, to appoint a czar. 10:24.800 --> 10:29.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Give somebody super powers, whether that person be Colin Powell or General Anthony Zinni, 10:31.733 --> 10:36.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the former four-star Marine CENTCOM commander, or Martin Dempsey, the former chairman of 10:36.200 --> 10:38.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the Joint Chiefs, or Mike Mullen. 10:38.366 --> 10:42.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I don't -- but somebody who is going to be the face, the voice to whom all the others 10:42.166 --> 10:43.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% are accountable, because, right now... 10:43.633 --> 10:44.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: On immigration? 10:44.633 --> 10:45.900 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 10:45.900 --> 10:48.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: ... southern border? 10:48.000 --> 10:49.333 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: On the border, on the family separation in particular at the border, because 10:49.333 --> 10:51.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% you can't get answers now. 10:51.400 --> 10:55.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I don't like any sentence that includes both Trump and czar at the same time. 10:55.100 --> 10:56.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% That scares me. 10:56.100 --> 10:57.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: OK. 10:57.100 --> 10:58.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% That's OK. 10:58.100 --> 11:00.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 11:00.266 --> 11:01.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: The problem is not -- well, there's the management problem. 11:01.733 --> 11:03.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And maybe some sort of administrator would help. 11:03.766 --> 11:05.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the core problem is the Trump administration, at least large parts of it, wants to send 11:05.800 --> 11:09.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% an intimidating message down to people south of the border: Don't try to come up here. 11:09.733 --> 11:11.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It will be miserable for you. 11:11.800 --> 11:14.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And then -- but they don't want to face the total political backlash of having a completely 11:14.400 --> 11:15.666 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% cruel policy. 11:15.666 --> 11:17.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So they're stuck in the horns of that dilemma. 11:17.600 --> 11:20.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% At the same time, they're stuck in a bit of a legislative logjam. 11:20.633 --> 11:24.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So I think the lesson should be that we're not going to be monsters at the border. 11:24.700 --> 11:27.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We're going to enforce the law, but we're not be total monsters. 11:27.766 --> 11:30.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But that goes against the policy that Jeff Sessions wants to support. 11:30.900 --> 11:33.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But just in a few seconds, is it doing political damage to the administration? 11:33.966 --> 11:37.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Well, Mark and I had a little discussion last week whether it would hurt 11:37.333 --> 11:40.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% Trump's approval rating. 11:40.633 --> 11:44.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I hate to say it, but I was right, in that it has not hurt his approval rating. 11:44.866 --> 11:47.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MARK SHIELDS: Well, no, his Gallup dropped precipitously. 11:47.400 --> 11:50.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: I just looked at the numbers. 11:50.400 --> 11:52.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So, we will come back next week. 11:52.166 --> 11:53.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: We will come back next Friday. 11:53.166 --> 11:54.433 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 11:54.433 --> 11:55.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: You pick your own numbers, David. 11:55.400 --> 11:56.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's what you're going to do. 11:56.633 --> 11:57.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: The Trump poll had him just... 11:57.400 --> 11:58.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (CROSSTALK) 11:58.700 --> 11:59.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MARK SHIELDS: How much is 11 and 7? 11:59.400 --> 12:00.433 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Is it 17? 12:00.433 --> 12:01.666 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 12:01.666 --> 12:02.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Hang around after the show. 12:02.600 --> 12:03.366 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It gets even more exciting. 12:03.366 --> 12:04.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% (LAUGHTER) 12:04.833 --> 12:04.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark Shields, David Brooks, thank you.