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AMNA NAWAZ: A standoff
between federal Border Patrol
and Texas state officials

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is intensifying following a
Supreme Court ruling in favor
of the Biden administration.

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Laura Barron-Lopez has more.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Earlier
this week, the Supreme Court
said U.S. Border Patrol agents

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could remove razor wire
that the state put in place
along the Rio Grande River.

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The Homeland Security
Department is demanding
immediate access to a section

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of the border and being blocked
with razor wire and fencing. But
Texas Governor Greg Abbott is

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doubling down, blocking
the agents from entering
the area and saying Texas
constitutional authority

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is -- quote -- "the
supreme law of the land
and supersedes any federal
statutes to the contrary."

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Joining me to discuss this
further is Stephen Vladeck,

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a professor at the University
of Texas School of Law.

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Professor Vladeck, thanks
so much for joining.

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Republican Governor Abbott is
saying Texas is going to hold
the line. And it's unclear when

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or if this razor wire is
going to be removed. Who
ultimately has the authority
over the border here?

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STEPHEN VLADECK, University
of Texas School of Law: Yes, I
mean, I think it's pretty clear,

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under the Constitution,
under our precedents,
that immigration policy,

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control of the border really
is ultimately in the federal
government's purview.

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But, Laura, I think it's just as
clear that Governor Abbott wants

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this confrontation and that he's
willing to take this battle all

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the way back to the
Supreme Court before
he's going to stand down.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And Governor
Abbott is claiming that he
has this authority under

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the U.S. Constitution because
the federal government isn't
protecting Texas against

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a -- quote -- "invasion." That's
the way he's been describing it.

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Is this a reasonable
interpretation of
the Constitution?

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STEVE VLADECK: No, and in
two different respects.

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I mean, the first is that,
obviously, an influx of
asylum seekers, however
many we're talking about,

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is not what the founders had
in mind when they used the
word invasion. But, Laura,

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second, even if you're
not persuaded by that, the
clause Governor Abbott's
relying on in Article 1,

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Section 10 of the Constitution
was dealing with the specific
scenario of the ability

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of states to respond
to invasions until
federal authorities
were able to respond.

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This is the time in
American history when
the federal military was
small. It was very spread

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out. It took weeks to
travel. Congress was usually
out of session. There's
no support in our history,

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there's no support in
founding or other materials
for the idea that states can

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decide for themselves that
they're under invasion,
and, even if the federal
government disagrees,

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that somehow it's the
state's determination
that would control.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ:
Recently, three migrants
drowned in the Rio Grande

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in this section that
Border Patrol agents have
been trying to access.

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And all this comes as a number
of Republican governors still
say that they support Texas,

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that they stand by Texas. What
are the larger implications of

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this standoff between Texas
and the federal government?

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STEVE VLADECK: I mean,
the larger implications
are pretty staggering.

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It's not just the specter
of a physical confrontation
between federal and Texas

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officials along the border in
Eagle Pass. It's also basically
a relegation of a debate that we

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had in American law for
the first 70 years of this
country about the ability
of states to effectively

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nullify those federal laws that
they disagreed with, that they
thought were unconstitutional.

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For better or for worse in our
constitutional system, federal
law supersedes state law,

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even when we don't like how
the federal government is
or is not enforcing those

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federal laws. The remedies for
those disagreements are not to

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allow every state to go
out on their own and to
have their own policies.

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The remedies, if you really have
a problem with the policies,
is to change the people

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who are making them.
Otherwise, it's a federal
system, Laura, in name only.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And
Governor Abbott also claims
that the federal government

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has -- quote -- "broken
the compact with states."

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Where have -- what do you
think he means by that?
And have states in the

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past used that language
to justify defying the
federal government?

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STEVE VLADECK: Yes, I
mean, the compact theory
of the Constitution is
a pretty outlier view,

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especially these days, about the
way the Constitution was formed.

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The basic premise is that
the federal government,
the constitutional system
we have was formed by

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the states, and, therefore,
the states can control its
terms. That was the argument

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on which the Southern states
predicated secession and
helped to precipitate the

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Civil War. There's a reason
why we tend not to hear
that much of it these days.

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Again, I mean, I think there's
a lot of folks who are going to
have strong views about whether

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the Biden administration is
or isn't doing what's best
for the country at the border.

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But the way to air those
disagreements is through the
federal electoral process.

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In a world in which states
can follow this version
of the compact theory as

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a justification for interfering
with federal authority, what's
to stop California from doing

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that to the next Republican
president? What's
to stop Vermont from
doing that to the next

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Republican president? And then
we're talking about a system
in which the states have all

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the power, and the federal
government is basically
impotent to do anything.

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LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ:
Professor Stephen Vladeck
of the University of Texas,
thank you for your time.

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STEVE VLADECK: Thank you.