1 00:00:02,033 --> 00:00:04,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: The Trump White House has been engaged in an all-out battle for the past 2 00:00:04,366 --> 00:00:09,366 few days against a new book that paints a devastating portrait of the president. 3 00:00:11,266 --> 00:00:14,833 Author Michael Wolff spent more than a year with inside access to the Trump campaign and 4 00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:20,033 first year in office conducting what he says were more than 200 interviews. 5 00:00:22,433 --> 00:00:27,433 The president waved, but said nothing, as he left Washington today, that after a weekend 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,900 full of comment. 7 00:00:31,900 --> 00:00:34,100 DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: I consider it a work of fiction, and I think 8 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:36,133 it's a disgrace. 9 00:00:36,133 --> 00:00:40,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: On Saturday, at Camp David, Mr. Trump denounced the book "Fire and Fury": 10 00:00:42,066 --> 00:00:44,433 Inside the Trump White House," and pointed to supporters doing the same. 11 00:00:44,433 --> 00:00:47,166 DONALD TRUMP: They know the author, and they know he's a fraud. 12 00:00:47,166 --> 00:00:49,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: The author is Michael Wolff. 13 00:00:49,733 --> 00:00:54,733 He depicts a White House beset by chaos, staffed by people who question the president's fitness 14 00:00:55,666 --> 00:00:57,766 to serve. 15 00:00:57,766 --> 00:01:01,866 Economic adviser Gary Cohn is quoted as saying in an e-mail that the president is "an idiot 16 00:01:03,833 --> 00:01:07,800 surrounded by clowns," someone who "won't read anything" and "gets up halfway through 17 00:01:09,166 --> 00:01:12,166 meetings with world leaders because he is bored." 18 00:01:12,166 --> 00:01:17,166 Wolff writes that for National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, "He was a dope." 19 00:01:19,666 --> 00:01:22,633 The book also quotes Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former Chief of Staff Reince Priebus 20 00:01:23,866 --> 00:01:26,000 calling Mr. Trump an idiot. 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,000 On Saturday, Mr. Trump hit back on Twitter, calling himself a "very stable genius." 22 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,566 He followed up at the Camp David news conference. 23 00:01:34,566 --> 00:01:38,633 DONALD TRUMP: I had a situation where I was a very excellent student, came out, made billions 24 00:01:38,633 --> 00:01:43,333 and billions of dollars, became one of the top businesspeople, went to television, and 25 00:01:43,333 --> 00:01:48,333 for 10 years was a tremendous success, as you probably have heard, ran for president 26 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:52,400 one time and won. 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: On the Sunday talk shows, several members of the Trump administration also defended 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,766 the president. 29 00:01:58,766 --> 00:02:03,166 CIA Director Mike Pompeo rejected Wolff's claims that the president gets bored during 30 00:02:04,366 --> 00:02:05,833 intelligence briefings. 31 00:02:05,833 --> 00:02:07,766 MIKE POMPEO, CIA Director: Those statements are just absurd. 32 00:02:07,766 --> 00:02:10,766 This president reads material that we provide to him. 33 00:02:10,766 --> 00:02:13,000 He listens closely to his daily briefing. 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: Others, inside and outside the administration, have challenged the validity 35 00:02:17,666 --> 00:02:20,033 of some of what's in the book. 36 00:02:20,033 --> 00:02:25,033 But Wolff says the situation is so alarming that White House aides have even talked about 37 00:02:26,366 --> 00:02:28,866 invoking the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. 38 00:02:28,866 --> 00:02:33,866 In part, it provides for the vice president to take over if he and most Cabinet members 39 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:37,266 deem the president unable to discharge his duties. 40 00:02:37,266 --> 00:02:39,433 MICHAEL WOLFF, Author, "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House": The 25th Amendment 41 00:02:39,433 --> 00:02:43,533 is a concept that is alive every day in the White House. 42 00:02:43,533 --> 00:02:48,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: To bolster his case, the author maintains that he had relatively free access 43 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:50,633 to the White House. 44 00:02:50,633 --> 00:02:53,400 DONALD TRUMP: I guess sloppy Steve brought him into the White House quite a bit, and 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,933 it was one of those things. 46 00:02:54,933 --> 00:02:56,966 That's why sloppy Steve is now looking for a job. 47 00:02:56,966 --> 00:03:01,633 JUDY WOODRUFF: That's former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who was fired last 48 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:04,133 summer. 49 00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:07,833 In the book, Bannon says Donald Trump Jr.'s participation in a 2016 meeting with a Russian 50 00:03:08,933 --> 00:03:11,933 lawyer was treasonous and unpatriotic. 51 00:03:11,933 --> 00:03:16,933 Late Sunday, Bannon apologized in a statement, pledging unwavering support. 52 00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:23,533 He insisted he had not been talking about Donald Trump Jr., but about Paul Manafort, 53 00:03:24,733 --> 00:03:26,866 the one-time Trump campaign chairman. 54 00:03:26,866 --> 00:03:31,533 Today, Wolff disputed Bannon's recanting and said there's no question he was talking about 55 00:03:32,266 --> 00:03:34,766 the president's son. 56 00:03:34,766 --> 00:03:38,466 For more on the explosive book and the firestorm it has created, I spoke with Michael Wolff 57 00:03:38,466 --> 00:03:43,466 a short time ago, and I asked him how different he found Donald Trump from the man he knew 58 00:03:44,833 --> 00:03:47,300 for the past 25 years, before he became president. 59 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:50,233 MICHAEL WOLFF: In some sense, not different at all. 60 00:03:50,233 --> 00:03:55,233 I mean, he is the same -- I think Steve Bannon calls him a big warm bear -- a big warm monkey, 61 00:04:01,933 --> 00:04:04,133 actually, is what Steve calls him. 62 00:04:04,133 --> 00:04:09,133 He's -- you know, he's, in many ways, a man full of flattery, superficial in every respect, 63 00:04:14,666 --> 00:04:16,966 a salesman. 64 00:04:16,966 --> 00:04:21,800 And he is still that, except that he's the president of the United States. 65 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: You have been saying, you have been writing repeatedly that the people around 66 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,966 the president now, including his children, are worried about him, in some cases alarmed 67 00:04:35,866 --> 00:04:37,033 by him. 68 00:04:37,033 --> 00:04:39,100 What are they worried will happen? 69 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:43,066 MICHAEL WOLFF: I think almost anything that he does worries them, because it is always 70 00:04:44,166 --> 00:04:45,166 unpredictable. 71 00:04:45,166 --> 00:04:47,333 It is always unpredictable. 72 00:04:47,333 --> 00:04:52,333 It's extreme, it's exceptional, and it is outside the bounds of what one has traditionally 73 00:04:57,166 --> 00:04:59,866 done as the president of the United States. 74 00:04:59,866 --> 00:05:04,233 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, as you know -- and we can go through this -- the president, everyone 75 00:05:04,233 --> 00:05:06,800 around him are pushing back. 76 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,833 The president is saying this is a book full of lies by an author, he says, totally discredited. 77 00:05:12,733 --> 00:05:16,266 The U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley, said over the weekend says she sees the president and 78 00:05:16,266 --> 00:05:20,566 his staff every week, she never sees anything like this. 79 00:05:20,566 --> 00:05:22,700 How does that square with what you saw? 80 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:27,033 MICHAEL WOLFF: It's absolutely untrue. 81 00:05:27,033 --> 00:05:32,033 I mean, literally, I spent, you know, the better part of seven months in close proximity 82 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:38,233 to everyone in the White House. 83 00:05:38,233 --> 00:05:43,233 And, you know, as I have said again and again and again, and I will say once more, I had 84 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,133 no agenda. 85 00:05:46,133 --> 00:05:50,100 I was perfectly willing to write a book in which Donald Trump was the unexpected successful 86 00:05:54,033 --> 00:05:56,033 president. 87 00:05:56,033 --> 00:06:00,100 I went into this experience just waiting to hear what people would tell me. 88 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,566 And what they told me, the people closest to the president, was that things became more 89 00:06:08,533 --> 00:06:13,433 alarming by the day, that all of them, in some way or other, were afraid, afraid for 90 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:21,833 their -- both for their own careers and for the country. 91 00:06:21,833 --> 00:06:23,733 They were also -- they just didn't know what to do. 92 00:06:23,733 --> 00:06:25,833 They didn't know what to expect. 93 00:06:25,833 --> 00:06:30,200 They woke up in the morning, and they were in, you know, something of a cold sweat. 94 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,800 Almost all of them -- for almost all of them, it was a countdown until when they could leave. 95 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let me continue with some of the pushback. 96 00:06:42,366 --> 00:06:46,233 You quote the former White House Chief of Staff Katie Walsh as saying, trying to figure 97 00:06:46,233 --> 00:06:51,000 out what the president wanted was like trying to figure out what a child wants. 98 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,433 She now says she was misquoted. 99 00:06:53,433 --> 00:06:55,100 Do you have her on tape? 100 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:57,400 Can you prove that she said it? 101 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,966 MICHAEL WOLFF: You know, I'm not going to produce tapes. 102 00:07:00,966 --> 00:07:05,966 I am very comfortable with how I reported what Katie Walsh said. 103 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,066 And, by the way, I don't say Katie Walsh coming out and, in fact, saying she didn't say this. 104 00:07:13,033 --> 00:07:17,866 I think she said, Steve Bannon -- she was quoting Steve Bannon or something like that. 105 00:07:19,066 --> 00:07:20,966 But I will -- and I will go further. 106 00:07:20,966 --> 00:07:25,200 There is not one person in close proximity to the president in the West Wing who has 107 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:30,533 not used the term that he is like a child. 108 00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:33,800 Sometimes, it's an 11-year-old, sometimes a 6-year-old. 109 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,766 Sometimes, it's a 2-year-old. 110 00:07:35,766 --> 00:07:40,533 Always, he is viewed as a child because he is someone who needs immediate and absolute 111 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,600 gratification when, where -- and when he wants it, now. 112 00:07:49,733 --> 00:07:54,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: You mentioned Steve Bannon, a central figure in the book, somebody you 113 00:07:55,466 --> 00:07:57,500 talked to a lot here. 114 00:07:57,500 --> 00:08:02,000 He did issue a statement over the weekend, pushed back especially -- or drew back the 115 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,533 comments that you said he made about the president's son, Donald Jr. 116 00:08:08,966 --> 00:08:11,000 Why would he do that, if he's somebody you rely on? 117 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,500 MICHAEL WOLFF: Well, I mean, first of all, he didn't. 118 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:18,500 He didn't say anything that I quoted as saying him was untrue or even misquoted. 119 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:24,800 What he does try to do, in a very triangulated apology in which he doesn't apologize, is 120 00:08:26,533 --> 00:08:31,533 say it wasn't about Don Jr., it was about Paul Manafort. 121 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:36,800 Now, there was the quote which he doesn't deny in which I quote him as saying that Don 122 00:08:39,766 --> 00:08:43,200 Jr. would be cracked like an egg on national television. 123 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Well, he doesn't dispute that. 124 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,600 And, in fact, while he certainly included Paul Manafort among this group of hapless 125 00:08:57,866 --> 00:09:02,866 people who were -- who Steve also thought might be committing treason, it was very much 126 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,500 focused on Don Jr. 127 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:12,233 He explained that what happened, that whole meeting in Trump Tower, came about because 128 00:09:12,233 --> 00:09:17,233 Don Jr. was trying to impress his father, so his father would give him more authority 129 00:09:17,833 --> 00:09:19,433 in the campaign. 130 00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:22,266 I absolutely stand my ground. 131 00:09:22,266 --> 00:09:27,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: Given what you saw in the White House and what you have reported on, what's 132 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,866 your sense of the Mueller investigation? 133 00:09:30,866 --> 00:09:34,400 Do you believe that it will produce proof that this president colluded in some way with 134 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,900 the Russians? 135 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:38,733 MICHAEL WOLFF: You know, I have no way of knowing that. 136 00:09:38,733 --> 00:09:43,733 I can -- and I can only report what people in the White House told me. 137 00:09:45,633 --> 00:09:48,900 And what people in the White House told me is that, actually, they tend not to give full 138 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,433 credence to the idea of collusion, at least a grand strategy of collusion. 139 00:09:57,233 --> 00:10:01,600 There might be, like Don Jr., some hapless collusion. 140 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,600 But they all, again to a man, believe that, if this investigation goes to the president's 141 00:10:09,833 --> 00:10:14,833 financial history, then the president is in trouble and his family is in trouble. 142 00:10:16,766 --> 00:10:20,133 JUDY WOODRUFF: The conventional wisdom, Michael Wolff, is that John Kelly, General Kelly, 143 00:10:22,133 --> 00:10:26,266 has brought a measure of calm and order to the White House since he arrived in August. 144 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:29,766 Could it be the... 145 00:10:29,766 --> 00:10:32,700 MICHAEL WOLFF: Well, let me just -- let me just stop you there and go over the history 146 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:37,700 of the last five days, the common order of the president trying to prior -- to restrain 147 00:10:41,566 --> 00:10:46,566 - - impose a prior restraint on the presentation of a book, the president going out and constantly 148 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,300 tweeting about -- I mean, attacking an author, attacking his former subordinates, and then 149 00:10:57,166 --> 00:11:01,966 coming out and saying that he was, in fact, sane. 150 00:11:01,966 --> 00:11:06,966 I mean, this is not a White House and not a president that has been restrained and had 151 00:11:09,733 --> 00:11:11,633 discipline imposed on him. 152 00:11:11,633 --> 00:11:15,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: And yet you write, you say that the president and General Kelly have 153 00:11:15,033 --> 00:11:17,900 contempt for each other? 154 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:20,333 MICHAEL WOLFF: Yes. 155 00:11:20,333 --> 00:11:22,900 And that comes as a surprise? 156 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:24,666 Yes, anyway, absolutely. 157 00:11:24,666 --> 00:11:27,866 JUDY WOODRUFF: Move on to the president's daughter Ivanka. 158 00:11:27,866 --> 00:11:31,866 Her husband, Jared, he plays a major role in this book. 159 00:11:31,866 --> 00:11:36,866 Do you see them still as influential in this White House as they were earlier on? 160 00:11:38,833 --> 00:11:42,733 MICHAEL WOLFF: You know, I think that they are spending a considerable amount of time 161 00:11:42,733 --> 00:11:46,333 on their own -- on their own legal issues. 162 00:11:46,333 --> 00:11:51,333 I think General Kelly has taken significant steps to contain their influence. 163 00:11:55,300 --> 00:12:00,333 But, yes, they are still the most influential people in the Trump White House. 164 00:12:02,333 --> 00:12:05,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: The 25th Amendment, you have said that this is a subject of conversation 165 00:12:07,233 --> 00:12:09,266 in the White House. 166 00:12:09,266 --> 00:12:12,366 This has to do with the vice president, the majority of the Cabinet agreeing the vice 167 00:12:12,366 --> 00:12:15,833 president should take over, if the president can't discharge his job. 168 00:12:15,833 --> 00:12:20,833 Do you know that that has been privately discussed by principals in the White House now? 169 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:22,633 MICHAEL WOLFF: Yes, absolutely. 170 00:12:22,633 --> 00:12:23,866 (CROSSTALK) 171 00:12:23,866 --> 00:12:25,200 JUDY WOODRUFF: Who are now -- yes. 172 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,266 MICHAEL WOLFF: I mean, let's go. 173 00:12:27,266 --> 00:12:31,833 And as I have now -- as I have outlined, as I have described this before, it is in the 174 00:12:33,733 --> 00:12:38,700 matter of people say -- because, you know, there's this constant kind of commentary on 175 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:42,966 what Trump has done, how to explain this. 176 00:12:42,966 --> 00:12:45,066 And so I first started to hear this. 177 00:12:45,066 --> 00:12:50,066 They would say, OK, that was weird, maybe not 25th Amendment weird, but weird. 178 00:12:52,066 --> 00:12:56,633 And then it would be, OK, we're moving closer to 25th Amendment kind of stuff. 179 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,333 In other words, it becomes almost a term of art within the White House of how to measure 180 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,300 whether Trump is at any given moment. 181 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: Two other quick things, Michael Wolff. 182 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:14,333 If things are as bad as you say, as you write that they are in this administration, why 183 00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:19,333 haven't there been resignations on principle from the top levels of this administration? 184 00:13:20,766 --> 00:13:23,466 MICHAEL WOLFF: You know, I mean, I think it's a good question. 185 00:13:23,466 --> 00:13:28,466 And, certainly, as an outsider, you would fairly ask that question of everyone. 186 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,600 The truth is that you find -- many of the people find themselves in this situation and 187 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:43,200 it's -- and begin to see themselves as the people who can impose some kind of logic and 188 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:52,700 order on this White House, that they almost stand protecting the president, they stand 189 00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:58,366 between the American people and the president. 190 00:13:58,366 --> 00:14:03,366 They are there in some -- and I think that this is unexpected for them all, because they're 191 00:14:05,733 --> 00:14:07,633 all ambitious people. 192 00:14:07,633 --> 00:14:11,133 They have suddenly become people with a patriotic duty. 193 00:14:11,133 --> 00:14:15,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, have you heard from people in the White House, in the administration 194 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,033 since the book came out? 195 00:14:17,033 --> 00:14:19,133 What are they saying to you privately? 196 00:14:19,133 --> 00:14:23,733 MICHAEL WOLFF: They are saying -- the context that I continue to have -- and a great many 197 00:14:27,866 --> 00:14:32,866 of the people who I spoken to this book are no longer with the administration, of course. 198 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:38,200 But what I do hear, quite specifically, is the president is bouncing off the walls because 199 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,433 of this book. 200 00:14:39,433 --> 00:14:42,666 He really takes it as a mortal threat. 201 00:14:42,666 --> 00:14:47,666 JUDY WOODRUFF: Michael Wolff, the book is "Fire and Fury": Inside the Trump White House." 202 00:14:48,566 --> 00:14:49,566 Quite a book. 203 00:14:49,566 --> 00:14:50,566 Thank you very much. 204 00:14:50,566 --> 00:14:51,133 MICHAEL WOLFF: Thank you.