WEBVTT 00:02.100 --> 00:04.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: This Sunday night, PBS will air the first of 10 episodes of the new Ken 00:04.633 --> 00:08.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Burns and Lynn Novick documentary "The Vietnam War." 00:08.033 --> 00:10.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It's been 10 years in the making. 00:10.066 --> 00:13.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And Judy Woodruff met with the co-directors at the Vietnam Memorial recently to talk about 00:13.966 --> 00:16.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% why this topic and its resonance now. 00:16.533 --> 00:20.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% LYNN NOVICK, Documentary Filmmaker: Thinking about every single name here as a story. 00:20.766 --> 00:25.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: That's the tall older of the latest Ken Burns and Lynn Novick documentary, 00:25.366 --> 00:26.633 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% "Vietnam." 00:26.633 --> 00:30.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% LYNN NOVICK: We just tell a few of them. 00:30.866 --> 00:35.866 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: The team culled hundreds of hours of footage into 18. 00:37.866 --> 00:42.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It's a flash point in history that's been examined countless times, but they say it's 00:43.233 --> 00:45.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% still not fully understood. 00:45.400 --> 00:47.466 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% KEN BURNS, Documentary Filmmaker: There's one way to think about it, is there's really 00:47.466 --> 00:51.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% only one name on the wall here, which is your name, your story, your brother, your uncle, 00:52.366 --> 00:53.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% your father. 00:53.366 --> 00:55.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's the important thing. 00:55.466 --> 01:00.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Vincent Okamoto is the most highly decorated surviving Japanese American 01:01.033 --> 01:03.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% veteran of the Vietnam War. 01:03.100 --> 01:06.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% VINCENT OKAMOTO, Vietnam War Veteran: The real heroes are the men that died, 19-, 20-year-old 01:08.100 --> 01:10.333 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% high school dropouts. 01:10.333 --> 01:15.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% They didn't have escape routes that the elite and the wealthy and the privileged had. 01:16.266 --> 01:17.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And that was unfair. 01:17.966 --> 01:21.766 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% They weren't going to be rewarded for their service in Vietnam. 01:21.766 --> 01:26.766 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% And yet, their infinite patience, their loyalty to each other, their courage under fire was 01:31.333 --> 01:33.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% just phenomenal. 01:33.733 --> 01:38.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And you would ask yourself, how does America produce young men like this? 01:40.766 --> 01:45.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: After tackling the Civil War and World War II, Novick and Burns vowed: 01:47.266 --> 01:49.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% KEN BURNS: We're not going to do any more wars. 01:49.833 --> 01:54.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But as they realized hundreds of Vietnam War veterans were dying each day, 01:56.933 --> 02:00.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% they decided to take on what they call the most important event in the second half of 02:01.833 --> 02:03.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the 20th century for Americans. 02:03.900 --> 02:08.533 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% KEN BURNS: There's an interesting thing, having done these three wars, that the Civil War 02:08.533 --> 02:13.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and the Second World War are really encrusted with the barnacles of sentimentality. 02:16.033 --> 02:18.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And that's not a problem with Vietnam. 02:18.533 --> 02:21.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And so, in a way, we get it raw. 02:21.433 --> 02:23.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Nobody's going to sentimentalize Vietnam. 02:23.933 --> 02:25.933 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It defined who we were. 02:25.933 --> 02:28.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It was this horrible loss. 02:28.866 --> 02:33.866 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And I think a lot of the divisions that we experience today had their seeds in the Vietnam 02:35.266 --> 02:37.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% conflict, and we haven't really gotten over them. 02:37.833 --> 02:39.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% LYNN NOVICK: It's still with us in this very present way. 02:39.900 --> 02:44.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think we came across a quote after we finished the film that all wars are fought twice, on 02:44.700 --> 02:46.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the battlefield and in our memory. 02:46.733 --> 02:49.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think we're still fighting the Vietnam War in many, many ways. 02:49.633 --> 02:53.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The great gift for this project was that so many of the people who lived through it are 02:53.166 --> 02:58.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% in their 60s and 70s, and they're here today, and they remember it very, very well. 03:00.200 --> 03:03.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And they told their stories to us in the most generous and brave way. 03:05.433 --> 03:07.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% People took tremendous risks to kind of open themselves up and just tell us what it was 03:07.566 --> 03:08.766 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% really like. 03:08.766 --> 03:13.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MAN: You adapt to the atrocities of war. 03:13.200 --> 03:17.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% You adapt to killing and dying. 03:17.666 --> 03:22.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% After a while, it doesn't bother you. 03:24.033 --> 03:27.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Let's just say it doesn't bother you as much. 03:27.233 --> 03:32.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I was made to realize that this is war and is what we do. 03:33.100 --> 03:35.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And that stuck in my head. 03:35.633 --> 03:36.633 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% This is war. 03:36.633 --> 03:38.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This is what we do. 03:38.700 --> 03:42.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The documentary comes at the war from all sides, the divisions among Americans 03:43.866 --> 03:46.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and the divisions among Vietnamese. 03:46.733 --> 03:51.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Burns and Novick say they wanted to include all voices, but avoid passing judgment themselves. 03:53.800 --> 03:57.300 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% KEN BURNS: In addition to a whole cast of American characters, every possible stripe, 03:59.300 --> 04:02.500 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% we have also got North Vietnamese soldiers, and Vietcong guerrillas, and North Vietnamese 04:02.500 --> 04:06.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% civilians, and South Vietnamese civilians, and South Vietnamese soldiers, and South Vietnamese 04:06.900 --> 04:09.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% diplomats. 04:09.033 --> 04:11.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But we're not putting the thumb on the scale of any kind of political agenda. 04:11.766 --> 04:16.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We are just interested in sharing the stories of a remarkable set of people. 04:18.766 --> 04:22.733 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% NARRATOR: As many as 230,000 teenagers, many of them volunteers, worked to keep the roads 04:25.500 --> 04:28.600 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% open and the traffic moving. 04:28.600 --> 04:31.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% More than half of them were women. 04:31.300 --> 04:36.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Le Minh Khue, who had left her home in the North with a novel by Ernest Hemingway in 04:38.266 --> 04:42.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% her backpack, observed her 17th birthday on the trail. 04:42.000 --> 04:46.266 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% LE MINH KHUE, Lived Through Vietnam War (through translator): We all had to endure. 04:46.266 --> 04:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% The jungle was humid and wet. 04:48.700 --> 04:52.733 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Bombs fell day and night. 04:52.733 --> 04:55.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We women had to find a way to survive. 04:55.866 --> 04:59.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% We thought it was terrible. 04:59.033 --> 05:04.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MAN (through translator): My brother, the seventh child in our family, joined the local 05:06.733 --> 05:09.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% resistance. 05:09.933 --> 05:14.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The Americans came through on a sweep and killed him. 05:16.533 --> 05:20.533 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Another brother was ambushed while he slept, shot through the heart. 05:21.966 --> 05:25.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% MAN: I never considered the Vietnamese our enemy. 05:28.066 --> 05:33.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% They had never done anything to threaten the security of the United States. 05:33.033 --> 05:37.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% They were off 10,000 miles away, minding their own business. 05:37.466 --> 05:42.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And we went there to their country, told them what kind of government we wanted them to 05:43.333 --> 05:45.400 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% have. 05:45.400 --> 05:46.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: There have obviously been hundreds, if not thousands of books... 05:46.766 --> 05:48.700 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% LYNN NOVICK: Indeed. 05:48.700 --> 05:50.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: ... written on this here and, I'm sure, in Vietnam. 05:50.133 --> 05:52.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Do you think you now understand this war, Ken? 05:52.300 --> 05:57.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KEN BURNS: No, I think there's something -- just like you can be married for years and years 05:57.166 --> 06:02.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and years, and that other person remains kind of inscrutable to the end, this is the arrogance 06:02.066 --> 06:07.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% of history and biography, that we think that we can know, go into the past, and do it. 06:08.666 --> 06:11.266 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% Every day was a daily humiliation of what we didn't know. 06:11.266 --> 06:14.400 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We always had not just scholars, but veterans present. 06:14.400 --> 06:17.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And their B.S. meters are so fine. 06:17.166 --> 06:20.833 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% And they would go, you know what, I'm not so sure about that. 06:20.833 --> 06:23.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And they'd say, in my experience, it was like this. 06:23.300 --> 06:28.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The documentary team shot about 40 times the footage they eventually used, 06:30.633 --> 06:33.633 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% and spoke with more than 1,000 witnesses in the U.S. and Vietnam, one-third of them Vietnamese 06:37.233 --> 06:39.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% or Vietnamese-American. 06:39.566 --> 06:42.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Research took them to almost 20 countries. 06:42.533 --> 06:45.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Facts were checked and rechecked. 06:45.200 --> 06:50.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% In addition to sorting through 5,000 hours of historical footage and photos -- one took 06:52.233 --> 06:55.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% a year to locate -- they wove 120 pieces of music from the period in with original music, 07:00.366 --> 07:05.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% led by composers Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, who did the soundtrack for hit movies 07:07.333 --> 07:11.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% like "The Social Network" and "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo," as well as from Yo-Yo 07:12.133 --> 07:14.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Ma and the Silk Road Ensemble. 07:14.933 --> 07:19.933 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% The filmmakers say they hope that, by airing this documentary, what happened will become 07:21.333 --> 07:24.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% clearer, even if the why continues to provoke debate. 07:24.500 --> 07:29.166 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% The documentary comes out at a moment in American history when we're thinking a lot about America's 07:29.166 --> 07:34.166 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% role in the world and how important Americans are and America compared to the rest of the 07:34.633 --> 07:35.566 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% world. 07:35.566 --> 07:36.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And judgments are being made. 07:36.933 --> 07:39.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So there's a timeliness here, isn't there? 07:39.466 --> 07:42.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% LYNN NOVICK: Yes, people ask us how -- what does it feel like to have the film coming 07:42.066 --> 07:44.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% out in this moment? 07:44.100 --> 07:48.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And it's just the sense that we live in this extraordinarily polarized and divisive moment, 07:49.233 --> 07:50.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and we don't seem to be able to talk. 07:50.466 --> 07:52.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We don't seem to be able to listen. 07:52.166 --> 07:54.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We don't seem to be able to agree about basic facts. 07:54.866 --> 07:59.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And yet so much of that really started escalating during the Vietnam War. 07:59.566 --> 08:02.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The resonances of where we are in the world and who we are in the world, especially -- we 08:02.933 --> 08:07.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% have been in several wars that are not unlike the Vietnam War for the last 15 years. 08:07.800 --> 08:12.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And, inevitably, there are the questions of lessons from this war, so 08:14.233 --> 08:16.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% many lessons that may or may not have been learned. 08:16.666 --> 08:18.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% What do you think they are? 08:18.700 --> 08:22.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KEN BURNS: Well, they're legion, but the one that we could agree on is that we're not going 08:22.133 --> 08:24.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% to blame the warriors anymore. 08:24.866 --> 08:28.766 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% History is the set of questions we in the present ask of the past. 08:28.766 --> 08:32.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If we can't talk about the current toxicity, let's go back and look at the other one, and 08:32.733 --> 08:37.733 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% maybe, with the kind of courageous conversations you can have, permitting people to have and 08:39.733 --> 08:43.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% hold views opposite of your own, you could really begin to have something, and not just 08:43.266 --> 08:47.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% the talking at or the shouting over that we do today. 08:47.466 --> 08:52.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MAN: For years, nobody talked about Vietnam. 08:52.266 --> 08:56.733 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It was so divisive. 08:56.733 --> 09:00.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And it's like living in a family with an alcoholic father. 09:00.133 --> 09:05.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Shh, we don't talk about that. 09:06.233 --> 09:08.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Our country did that with Vietnam. 09:08.200 --> 09:12.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And it's only been very recently that I think that the baby boomers are finally starting 09:13.033 --> 09:13.900 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% to say, what happened? 09:13.900 --> 09:15.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% What happened? 09:15.933 --> 09:20.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: You can see more of my conversation with the filmmakers in our next piece. 09:21.833 --> 09:24.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The documentary will air for the next two weeks. 09:24.900 --> 09:29.900 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: "The Vietnam War" premieres Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on most PBS stations. 09:31.833 --> 09:36.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You will find more online information right now, including an excerpt about a Navy pilot 09:38.033 --> 09:41.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% who spent more than eight years in captivity, making him the second longest held American 09:41.033 --> 09:42.300 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% prisoner of war. 09:42.300 --> 09:44.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.