1 00:00:00,420 --> 00:00:04,540 JUDY WOODRUFF: It has been nearly six months since Donald Trump left Washington, after 2 00:00:04,540 --> 00:00:07,060 losing the presidential race to Joe Biden. 3 00:00:07,060 --> 00:00:12,060 And, for months, the former president has falsely claimed the election was rigged against 4 00:00:12,140 --> 00:00:17,140 him. But his defeat and his chaotic, controversial final year in office is the focus of a new 5 00:00:18,390 --> 00:00:23,390 book, "Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost, " by Michael 6 00:00:25,070 --> 00:00:27,180 Bender of The Wall Street Journal. 7 00:00:27,180 --> 00:00:29,789 His book is out today. And he joins us now. 8 00:00:29,789 --> 00:00:32,430 Michael Bender, welcome to the "NewsHour." 9 00:00:32,430 --> 00:00:37,430 It was a famous quote the president gave as he was talking on television after it was 10 00:00:40,309 --> 00:00:45,309 becoming clear he had lost, but he goes before the American people to say: I won. 11 00:00:45,879 --> 00:00:48,232 It was the beginning of this process of denial, wasn't it? 12 00:00:48,232 --> 00:00:49,850 MICHAEL C. BENDER, Author, "Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How 13 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:51,329 Trump Lost": Yes, that's right. 14 00:00:51,329 --> 00:00:55,850 I mean, it was an unscripted line uttered after 2:00 in the morning. He didn't even 15 00:00:55,850 --> 00:01:00,850 want to come down to address the nation and the guests at the White House, where he was 16 00:01:01,729 --> 00:01:04,460 planning a victory party. 17 00:01:04,460 --> 00:01:09,460 And he decided on stage to blurt out that he had won the election, obviously quite falsely, 18 00:01:12,079 --> 00:01:16,359 And that set off a chain of reactions for the next six months into 2021. 19 00:01:16,359 --> 00:01:20,840 JUDY WOODRUFF: I mean, the book is just a remarkable collection of stories. 20 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,840 You follow the administration, the campaign. You spent -- you had a number of interviews 21 00:01:26,890 --> 00:01:31,890 with him in person. You talked to, what, over 150 people working for him. And you paint 22 00:01:32,590 --> 00:01:37,590 this picture of this chaotic, disorganized campaign that never really could settle on 23 00:01:38,380 --> 00:01:43,380 a message or a strategy, and surrounded by people who basically didn't stand up to this 24 00:01:46,539 --> 00:01:47,539 president. 25 00:01:47,539 --> 00:01:52,229 MICHAEL C. BENDER: This book focuses on 2020, but it is informed by over five years of covering 26 00:01:52,229 --> 00:01:57,229 him and the people around him, and use a lot of the stories to give context to what happened 27 00:01:57,999 --> 00:01:59,539 in 2020. 28 00:01:59,539 --> 00:02:04,539 And you mentioned the chaos of the Trump administration. It was beyond chaos. And the people closest 29 00:02:05,319 --> 00:02:10,319 to him thought he was, at different points of the year, a danger to the country and tried 30 00:02:11,879 --> 00:02:16,879 various ways to stop him or to keep him in line and tried to act as guardrails, some 31 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,620 without very much success. 32 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:24,319 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, as we said, many of them were afraid to stand up to him. But, as you 33 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,150 point out, Michael Bender, some were. 34 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:31,150 You have that really fascinating episode in here where he is with General Mark Milley, 35 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,159 the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This is after the death of George Floyd. There 36 00:02:37,159 --> 00:02:42,159 are protests all around the country. The president is saying to him and others, we need to crack 37 00:02:43,409 --> 00:02:48,409 their heads, talking about the protesters, shoot them if necessary. 38 00:02:49,540 --> 00:02:50,790 And Milley says no. 39 00:02:50,790 --> 00:02:53,019 MICHAEL C. BENDER: That's right. 40 00:02:53,019 --> 00:02:58,019 This is in June of 2020. If you recall, it's - - Trump opened up the year in 2020 really 41 00:03:00,090 --> 00:03:04,720 primed for reelection. Yes, he had just been impeached, but he survived it and was thriving. 42 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,200 His poll numbers were as high as they had ever been. The issue that he wanted to run 43 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,810 on was the economy. And the economy was red-hot. 44 00:03:10,810 --> 00:03:15,810 And then, suddenly, COVID struck, George Floyd was killed, and triggered massive civil rights 45 00:03:17,980 --> 00:03:22,800 protests. The economy tanked. And he struggled to find a message. And what played out was 46 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,800 that he lashed out at the people around him. He tried to get back to his law and order 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,989 image at any cost. 48 00:03:29,989 --> 00:03:34,730 And you're right. It fell to General Mark Milley. The top general in the world's most 49 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:39,730 powerful military was the only one who could sit in front of Trump and tell him no. 50 00:03:40,209 --> 00:03:44,269 And there's one, I think, very resonant scene in the book. He points to the portrait of 51 00:03:44,269 --> 00:03:49,269 Abraham Lincoln behind Trump and tells him: "That, man, sir, had an insurrection. What 52 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,879 we have is a protest." 53 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:57,879 JUDY WOODRUFF: And this is when they were discussing whether to invoke the Insurrection 54 00:03:58,370 --> 00:03:59,370 Act. 55 00:03:59,370 --> 00:04:04,370 And you mentioned COVID., of course, all this taking place during the pandemic. It turns 56 00:04:05,060 --> 00:04:10,060 out, from your reporting, the president was tested -- had tested positive for COVID before 57 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:16,400 it was made public, and went on to do a fund-raiser in Bedminster, New Jersey, where he has a 58 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:20,280 home. 59 00:04:20,280 --> 00:04:22,490 Why did that -- why was that allowed to happen? 60 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:27,490 MICHAEL C. BENDER: There was very few people around him at that point who were in a position 61 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:30,550 to tell him no. 62 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:35,550 He had -- anyone who was pushing back on the president -- this is year four in the administration 63 00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:40,040 - - was long gone, and even, you can argue, in those first three years, didn't happen 64 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,360 all that effectively. 65 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,100 So, on that morning, when his -- some of his senior aides -- one of his senior aides test 66 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:51,100 positive, it's kind of chaos in the White House. And Trump -- this is new reporting 67 00:04:54,030 --> 00:04:59,030 in this book -- had several false positive tests throughout the year. And some -- several 68 00:04:59,750 --> 00:05:04,750 people tell me that Trump tested positive that morning and assumed it was false, and 69 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:09,360 had another test show negative, and then he left her Bedminster. 70 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,360 That account is disputed. But, Judy, even the fact that we have competing accounts of 71 00:05:15,610 --> 00:05:20,610 whether or not the president tested -- or tested positive for COVID the morning his 72 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,600 - - one of his top aides was sick, I mean, is a story in itself and tells you a lot about 73 00:05:30,590 --> 00:05:35,590 the struggle to address one of the -- the biggest health crisis in the country in a 74 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:38,180 century. 75 00:05:38,180 --> 00:05:43,180 JUDY WOODRUFF: There is a fair amount of -- a lot of time spent in the book, Michael Bender, 76 00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:49,090 on sort of the unraveling at the end, after the election results are known. 77 00:05:51,530 --> 00:05:56,530 People around the president, as we said, are just not able to say directly to him "You 78 00:05:57,670 --> 00:06:02,670 lost" in a way that he would even hear. And then you see the rise of Rudy Giuliani. 79 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:07,180 What was going on at that moment? 80 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:11,970 MICHAEL C. BENDER: People who were around him in a position to act as these guardrails 81 00:06:11,970 --> 00:06:16,970 never quite told him no directly. They always sort of left a little wiggle room that this 82 00:06:17,790 --> 00:06:20,430 president heard and latched on to. 83 00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:25,330 And so those first couple of weeks after the election, you had Vice President Mike Pence, 84 00:06:25,330 --> 00:06:30,330 you had Ronna McDaniel, the Republican National Committee woman, even Mark Milley, to a degree, 85 00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:34,970 leaving the Oval Office saying, you know what, the president just needs a little bit of space, 86 00:06:34,970 --> 00:06:39,970 give him time, and he will get to a -- he will get to this himself, he will find his 87 00:06:41,090 --> 00:06:42,810 own path out of this. 88 00:06:42,810 --> 00:06:47,810 But they gave him space. And what that did was create an opening for Rudy Giuliani and 89 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:52,590 some of these characters to come in and tell the president exactly what he wanted to hear. 90 00:06:52,590 --> 00:06:57,030 JUDY WOODRUFF: We hear Donald Trump now teasing a lot about whether he's going to run for 91 00:06:57,030 --> 00:07:00,449 president again in 2024. 92 00:07:00,449 --> 00:07:05,449 How does that keep him at the center of what's going on in the Republican Party? And do you 93 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:08,030 think he will run again? 94 00:07:08,030 --> 00:07:12,340 MICHAEL C. BENDER: Yes, I mean, that's where it comes back to, is -- you're right, Judy 95 00:07:12,340 --> 00:07:17,340 - - is, he wants to be the center of attention about what we're -- what people are talking 96 00:07:17,710 --> 00:07:22,450 about, about the subject of the headlines, right? 97 00:07:22,450 --> 00:07:27,050 And one of the things I try to do in the book here is show how Trump's priority from day 98 00:07:27,050 --> 00:07:32,050 one was to win reelection. And very few people around him shared that priority. They all 99 00:07:33,421 --> 00:07:38,090 had their different reasons for wanting to be around Trump, mostly their own personal 100 00:07:38,090 --> 00:07:39,970 reasons. 101 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:44,970 But Trump is going to -- he has to wait to see what happens in 2022, because, right now, 102 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:51,300 the Republican Party has a choice. Are they or are they not going to try to redefine themselves 103 00:07:52,510 --> 00:07:57,510 post-Trump? And how they answer that question will inform what Trump decides in 2024. 104 00:08:01,340 --> 00:08:06,340 And I think what this book does is provide new information and a new set of data points 105 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,210 that shows that Republicans, when they make this decision, are doing it with their eyes 106 00:08:11,210 --> 00:08:16,210 wide open. They know who this president is and, after reading this book, what kind of 107 00:08:16,401 --> 00:08:17,890 political candidate he is. 108 00:08:17,890 --> 00:08:22,520 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, it is a book full of astonishing stories, "Frankly, We Did Win 109 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,280 This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost." 110 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,970 Michael Bender, thank you very much. 111 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:28,810 MICHAEL C. BENDER: Thanks for having me.