1 00:00:01,433 --> 00:00:03,766 AMNA NAWAZ: Now let's focus on increasing attacks by extremists 2 00:00:03,766 --> 00:00:06,600 and others to disrupt and knock out the power grid. 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,600 Direct attacks on electrical substations, including vandalism and other suspicious activity, 4 00:00:13,566 --> 00:00:17,033 were up by nearly 80 percent in 2022 compared to the previous year. Yesterday, 5 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:21,033 authorities said they had foiled an alleged neo-Nazi 6 00:00:21,033 --> 00:00:25,233 plot to attack multiple substations and transformers around Baltimore. 7 00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:27,600 William Brangham has the details. 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,600 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amna, the FBI said it had arrested two suspects in this case last week, 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,800 Sarah Beth Clendaniel of Maryland and Brandon Russell of Florida. 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,766 Federal officials say Russell, who was just released after a five-year sentence on bomb 11 00:00:43,766 --> 00:00:47,100 charges, is a founder of a neo-Nazi group known as the Atomwaffen. This alleged plot 12 00:00:49,133 --> 00:00:52,933 in Baltimore follows recent physical attacks on electrical stations in North Carolina, 13 00:00:52,933 --> 00:00:57,733 Oregon and Washington state, attacks that left tens of thousands of 14 00:00:57,733 --> 00:01:02,433 people without power. Motives in all those cases haven't been determined. 15 00:01:02,433 --> 00:01:06,400 Brian Levin watches all this at the Center for the Study of Hate and 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,400 Extremism at California state University in San Bernardino. And he joins us now. 17 00:01:12,566 --> 00:01:14,800 Brian Levin, thank you so much for being here. 18 00:01:16,766 --> 00:01:20,633 Last year, the Department of Homeland Security indicated that racist extremist groups would 19 00:01:22,833 --> 00:01:27,466 be targeting infrastructure, very much like this alleged plot in Baltimore. 20 00:01:27,466 --> 00:01:32,466 Can you help us understand, why would neo-Nazis want to attack a 21 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,600 power station? How does that further their goals? 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,266 BRIAN LEVIN, Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism: A couple of things. 23 00:01:38,266 --> 00:01:41,000 First of all, historically and culturally, 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,966 infrastructure plots and attacks and the glorification of it with within 25 00:01:47,633 --> 00:01:52,033 various books throughout the movement and prior plots goes back decades. 26 00:01:54,466 --> 00:01:57,233 Some decades ago, I testified before Congress about something called leaderless resistance. And, 27 00:01:59,666 --> 00:02:04,100 as the far right frequently throughout history, and especially today, has become very fragmented 28 00:02:08,033 --> 00:02:13,033 and cellular, these kinds of targeted attacks that can be done by lone actors or small 29 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,800 cells is very appealing, because it gives them leverage with respect to their small numbers. 30 00:02:23,766 --> 00:02:28,633 So, we have both a historic sociocultural identification of these locations as 31 00:02:31,966 --> 00:02:36,966 legitimate targets and an overall racial holy war or civil war or, as accelerationists want to do, 32 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:45,300 just burn down society. These folks are looking for some kind of chaos. 33 00:02:47,333 --> 00:02:50,833 And what they were hoping is there would be some kind of violent conflict around 34 00:02:50,833 --> 00:02:55,033 these attacks or, as in some of these plots most recently, 35 00:02:55,033 --> 00:03:00,066 attacks that take place around already emergency situations, like snowstorms or natural disasters. 36 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,400 So what they hope to do as part of the accelerationist wing of neo-Nazism, 37 00:03:10,433 --> 00:03:13,966 but that actually goes across the ideological spectrum, is to cause chaos and continuing 38 00:03:13,966 --> 00:03:18,966 lack of confidence and -- in institutions and infighting amongst citizens. And they 39 00:03:20,833 --> 00:03:24,400 figure these kinds of targeted attacks, assassinations, and violence at rallies 40 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,400 could combine to create that critical mass of revolution for white supremacy. 41 00:03:30,466 --> 00:03:32,566 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I see. 42 00:03:32,566 --> 00:03:35,566 This Baltimore plot, along with these others that we have seen in Washington 43 00:03:35,566 --> 00:03:40,566 state and North Carolina and Oregon, seem to indicate, though, that these 44 00:03:42,566 --> 00:03:45,800 power substations are themselves particularly vulnerable. Is that your understanding as well? 45 00:03:48,333 --> 00:03:50,900 BRIAN LEVIN: Well, I would prefer not to go into particular vulnerabilities of specific locations. 46 00:03:52,866 --> 00:03:56,533 But let me just say this is, we know that the protection of various substations and related 47 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:04,266 facilities is very uneven across the country. And we really have to raise the national standards, 48 00:04:06,333 --> 00:04:10,866 not only with respect to physical attacks, but also cyberattacks, which may not only just come 49 00:04:12,866 --> 00:04:17,766 from white supremacists and accelerationists, but others who either are connected to a 50 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,500 foreign entity or are transnational in their white supremacy, not necessarily exclusively domestic. 51 00:04:28,733 --> 00:04:33,733 And, indeed, Atomwaffen and some of these other groups have international footprints. So, 52 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:39,833 we have to look at not only the physical infrastructure, but also cyber, as an increasingly 53 00:04:41,900 --> 00:04:46,700 available set of malefactors is available to want to hit our critical infrastructure. 54 00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:53,466 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, given those vulnerabilities that you're describing, I mean, what would you 55 00:04:55,366 --> 00:04:58,500 be recommending that governments and utilities be doing to help harden these 56 00:04:59,366 --> 00:05:01,533 pieces of infrastructure? 57 00:05:01,533 --> 00:05:04,966 BRIAN LEVIN: I think they have to look from within. I think they have to go 58 00:05:04,966 --> 00:05:09,000 to the experts that are working there and say, what are our vulnerabilities? 59 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Even do some drills where folks might try to -- with proper vetting, 60 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:21,900 try to show where these vulnerabilities are. So, that's one thing. The other thing is, 61 00:05:23,933 --> 00:05:27,600 increasingly, surveillance systems are becoming much more inexpensive. So we 62 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:33,833 have to look at that as well. And, again, don't forget the cyber infrastructure. 63 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:39,733 We know from the past that, for instance, there have been attempts to breach, for instance, 64 00:05:43,666 --> 00:05:48,000 critical infrastructure here in the United States, from water systems, to hospitals, 65 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,000 and other places where we rely on them for our safety, but also our routine daily activities. 66 00:05:57,333 --> 00:06:02,133 So, anything, frankly, that would be a vulnerability 67 00:06:04,066 --> 00:06:07,433 for some kind of mass chaos, I think communities have to look at. And, 68 00:06:07,433 --> 00:06:12,433 of course, communication systems, electrical infrastructure, health care systems, 69 00:06:14,733 --> 00:06:17,900 and others are places I certainly would start, as well as cyber infrastructure, really important. 70 00:06:18,766 --> 00:06:20,766 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, 71 00:06:20,766 --> 00:06:22,833 Brian Levin at the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, thank you so much. 72 00:06:22,833 --> 00:06:24,400 BRIAN LEVIN: Thank you.