JUDY WOODRUFF: But first:
The U.S. census is generally
considered more technical than

controversial, but, in recent
months, the once-a-decade
population count has been the

subject of political debate.

There has been no move to
replace director, John Thompson,
since his surprise resignation

last spring.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross
recently asked Congress for
additional funding to keep the

agency from collapsing.

Hari Sreenivasan spoke with
former Census Director Kenneth
Prewitt to discuss what a

crippled census in 2020
could mean for our democracy.

But he began with a
quick look at how the
census affects us all.

HARI SREENIVASAN: Here's
a bit of civics 101.

The U.S. census is an attempt
by the government to count every
person living in the United

States.

Every 10 years, the Census
Bureau gathers information like
gender, age, race and income.

ACTOR: We did it.

We did it.

Hey.

ACTOR: What did you do?

ACTOR: We helped mommy
fill out her census form.

And we mailed it back.

ACTOR: But why?

ACTOR: Because everybody
counts in the census form.

HARI SREENIVASAN: But
why does the government
collect this data?

First, the Constitution says to.

GEORGE H.W.

BUSH, Former President of the
United States: One of the ways
the Constitution preserves

our rights is to require
the government to conduct
a census every 10 years.

HARI SREENIVASAN: The
founding fathers decided
the number of seats in the
U.S. House is determined

by the number of
people in each state.

The official count is used
to draw voting districts at
the national, state and local

levels.

But there's another
important reason the U.S.
conducts a census: money.

MAN: And 2.4
million, 2.5 million.

WOMAN: The U.S. census isn't
just a population count.

It helps allocate
federal, state and local
funds to your community.

HARI SREENIVASAN: The
federal government decides
how much funding or
grants to give states,

counties and cities by looking
at the detailed census data.

That means money for updating
schools, building new hospitals,
repairing broken roads, and

maintaining public
utilities like water,
sewage and electricity.

MAN: You can answer census
2000 and get what you need, or
you can leave it blank and get

this, nothing.

HARI SREENIVASAN: Private
companies also make
major decisions based
on what the census says,

like where to build
grocery stores or new
housing developments.

But like any other government
agency, the Census Bureau
needs funding to do its job.

And it's not cheap.

The last census, in 2010, cost
taxpayers $13 billion, with
more than 500 field offices

and 635,000 staffers nationwide.

Republicans already worried
about big government have
questioned that price tag.

South Carolina
ÑMDNMÑCongressman Trey Gowdy:

REP.

TREY GOWDY (R), South
Carolina: Cost matters.

I think it matters,
period, new paragraph.

HARI SREENIVASAN: Kenneth
Prewitt, thanks for joining us.

It's been a significant concern.

Budget hawks say, why does the
census cost as much as it does?

Aren't there technologies
now that can do it better
and less expensively?

KENNETH PREWITT, Former U.S.
Census Director: They're trying
to do the 2020 census at roughly

half of the price of the 2010
census, whereas the 2010 was
double the price of the 2000.

That was the one
I was engaged in.

So, yes, enormous advances
have been made in using
technology to reduce the cost.

But if you are not even funded
at that level with these new
technologies, well, you're

simply ill-prepared to
do the census in 2020.

The bad news is, it's
not being funded, and we
currently don't have a leader.

We don't have a director in
the Census Bureau, so we're not
ready in that more important

sense.

And then another issue,
we're trying new technologies
this year for the first
time ever in a census.

And you have to test them,
or you should test them.

There's no money to test them.

Just it's like you had a fighter
fly a plane that puts a new
technology in it that's never

been before, rolls off the
assembly line, and they say,
oh, go directly into action.

HARI SREENIVASAN: There was a
draft that was leaked earlier
this year that recommended

that the U.S. census -- quote
-- "include questions that
determine U.S. citizenship

and immigration status."

Now, there's indication
that that would be included
in the 2020 census.

But what kind of an
effect does that have?

KENNETH PREWITT: It would
scare a lot of people that
you actually need to count.

The census is supposed to
count everyone in the country,
once and only once and in the

right place.

That's a big job.

HARI SREENIVASAN: Considering
that we're in a climate where
institutions that we once

used to trust are regularly
questioned, whether it's fake
news or fake census, what's the

consequence of something
like this not being trusted?

KENNETH PREWITT:
Huge, quite honestly.

If we really have a bad census,
one of the things that could
happen is the administration

could say, let's not use
it, let's sort of just
use the old numbers.

And with respect to
redistricting, allocation
of seats in the U.S.
Congress, that means

we would go with
what we now have.

A lot of population movement
in the last 10 years.

So this would
really be a setback.

HARI SREENIVASAN: It seems
constitutionally it was designed
as a representative tool,

not a political one, but over
the years, it's been used by
either side that's in control

as kind of a political tool.

KENNETH PREWITT: I would say the
Census Bureau is not political.

The use of the
numbers is political.

And as long as we can have
the Census Bureau only wanting
to produce the most accurate,

complete count, then it,
itself, is not political.

If they are misused are used
in ways that we -- they are
gerrymandering now with those

census data.

So a population which is roughly
50/50 in terms of electoral
strength is roughly 60/40

in terms of seats in the
Congress and governorships.

HARI SREENIVASAN: Are there
vested interests in wanting
to maintain the status quo?

KENNETH PREWITT: Well, yes.

And I'm trying not to be
political here, but if you like
the distribution of seats and

the distribution governorships
in particular in the country
now, and you think that by

having a good census, you may
lose some of the seats, then
why would you want to have

a good census?

HARI SREENIVASAN: Can the census
be salvaged or saved, given
the amount of time and the

amount of money that
we have right now?

KENNETH PREWITT: Oh, yes.

If there was strong leadership
in place within the next five
months -- let us say four or

five months, and if the
budget were where it ought
to be, yes, it can be saved.

There comes a time
when you can't save it.

If you have not tested the
census in 2018, it's too late
to fix it, even if you tested

it in 2019.

You don't have the time to
go back and fix any of the
problems you encountered in the

big test.

HARI SREENIVASAN:
Kenneth Prewitt, now
of Columbia University,
former director of the

U.S. census, thanks
for joining us.

KENNETH PREWITT: My pleasure.

Thanks.