WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:04.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: But first: The U.S. census is generally considered more technical than 00:04.833 --> 00:09.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% controversial, but, in recent months, the once-a-decade population count has been the 00:09.533 --> 00:11.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% subject of political debate. 00:11.533 --> 00:16.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% There has been no move to replace director, John Thompson, since his surprise resignation 00:16.633 --> 00:18.733 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% last spring. 00:18.733 --> 00:22.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross recently asked Congress for additional funding to keep the 00:22.333 --> 00:24.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% agency from collapsing. 00:24.633 --> 00:29.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Hari Sreenivasan spoke with former Census Director Kenneth Prewitt to discuss what a 00:29.133 --> 00:33.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% crippled census in 2020 could mean for our democracy. 00:33.533 --> 00:37.200 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% But he began with a quick look at how the census affects us all. 00:37.200 --> 00:39.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% HARI SREENIVASAN: Here's a bit of civics 101. 00:39.900 --> 00:44.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The U.S. census is an attempt by the government to count every person living in the United 00:45.400 --> 00:47.433 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% States. 00:47.433 --> 00:49.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Every 10 years, the Census Bureau gathers information like gender, age, race and income. 00:49.766 --> 00:51.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% ACTOR: We did it. 00:51.100 --> 00:52.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% We did it. 00:52.100 --> 00:53.100 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% Hey. 00:53.100 --> 00:54.600 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% ACTOR: What did you do? 00:54.600 --> 00:57.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% ACTOR: We helped mommy fill out her census form. 00:57.100 --> 00:58.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And we mailed it back. 00:58.766 --> 01:00.366 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% ACTOR: But why? 01:00.366 --> 01:02.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% ACTOR: Because everybody counts in the census form. 01:02.333 --> 01:05.600 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% HARI SREENIVASAN: But why does the government collect this data? 01:05.600 --> 01:07.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% First, the Constitution says to. 01:07.566 --> 01:09.633 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% GEORGE H.W. 01:09.633 --> 01:11.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% BUSH, Former President of the United States: One of the ways the Constitution preserves 01:11.700 --> 01:14.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% our rights is to require the government to conduct a census every 10 years. 01:14.533 --> 01:19.133 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: The founding fathers decided the number of seats in the U.S. House is determined 01:19.133 --> 01:21.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% by the number of people in each state. 01:21.600 --> 01:25.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The official count is used to draw voting districts at the national, state and local 01:25.933 --> 01:27.966 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% levels. 01:27.966 --> 01:30.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But there's another important reason the U.S. conducts a census: money. 01:30.533 --> 01:33.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% MAN: And 2.4 million, 2.5 million. 01:33.666 --> 01:37.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% WOMAN: The U.S. census isn't just a population count. 01:37.066 --> 01:41.366 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% It helps allocate federal, state and local funds to your community. 01:41.366 --> 01:45.966 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: The federal government decides how much funding or grants to give states, 01:45.966 --> 01:49.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% counties and cities by looking at the detailed census data. 01:49.800 --> 01:54.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% That means money for updating schools, building new hospitals, repairing broken roads, and 01:54.766 --> 01:58.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% maintaining public utilities like water, sewage and electricity. 01:58.133 --> 02:03.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MAN: You can answer census 2000 and get what you need, or you can leave it blank and get 02:04.300 --> 02:06.833 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% this, nothing. 02:06.833 --> 02:09.800 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Private companies also make major decisions based on what the census says, 02:09.800 --> 02:13.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% like where to build grocery stores or new housing developments. 02:13.133 --> 02:17.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But like any other government agency, the Census Bureau needs funding to do its job. 02:17.933 --> 02:20.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And it's not cheap. 02:20.000 --> 02:24.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The last census, in 2010, cost taxpayers $13 billion, with more than 500 field offices 02:27.000 --> 02:31.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and 635,000 staffers nationwide. 02:31.400 --> 02:35.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Republicans already worried about big government have questioned that price tag. 02:35.266 --> 02:36.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% South Carolina ÑMDNMÑCongressman Trey Gowdy: 02:36.633 --> 02:37.866 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% REP. 02:37.866 --> 02:39.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% TREY GOWDY (R), South Carolina: Cost matters. 02:39.100 --> 02:41.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think it matters, period, new paragraph. 02:41.700 --> 02:43.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Kenneth Prewitt, thanks for joining us. 02:43.800 --> 02:46.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It's been a significant concern. 02:46.166 --> 02:49.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Budget hawks say, why does the census cost as much as it does? 02:49.600 --> 02:52.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Aren't there technologies now that can do it better and less expensively? 02:52.166 --> 02:56.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT, Former U.S. Census Director: They're trying to do the 2020 census at roughly 02:56.166 --> 03:01.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% half of the price of the 2010 census, whereas the 2010 was double the price of the 2000. 03:02.333 --> 03:04.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That was the one I was engaged in. 03:04.300 --> 03:08.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, yes, enormous advances have been made in using technology to reduce the cost. 03:10.100 --> 03:12.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But if you are not even funded at that level with these new technologies, well, you're 03:12.433 --> 03:16.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% simply ill-prepared to do the census in 2020. 03:16.533 --> 03:21.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The bad news is, it's not being funded, and we currently don't have a leader. 03:21.133 --> 03:24.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We don't have a director in the Census Bureau, so we're not ready in that more important 03:24.700 --> 03:27.100 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% sense. 03:27.100 --> 03:30.700 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And then another issue, we're trying new technologies this year for the first time ever in a census. 03:32.133 --> 03:33.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And you have to test them, or you should test them. 03:33.200 --> 03:35.866 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There's no money to test them. 03:35.866 --> 03:40.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Just it's like you had a fighter fly a plane that puts a new technology in it that's never 03:42.900 --> 03:46.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% been before, rolls off the assembly line, and they say, oh, go directly into action. 03:48.566 --> 03:50.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: There was a draft that was leaked earlier this year that recommended 03:50.933 --> 03:54.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% that the U.S. census -- quote -- "include questions that determine U.S. citizenship 03:54.433 --> 03:56.400 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and immigration status." 03:56.400 --> 03:59.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Now, there's indication that that would be included in the 2020 census. 03:59.266 --> 04:01.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% But what kind of an effect does that have? 04:01.400 --> 04:04.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT: It would scare a lot of people that you actually need to count. 04:04.366 --> 04:08.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The census is supposed to count everyone in the country, once and only once and in the 04:08.200 --> 04:09.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% right place. 04:09.200 --> 04:11.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% That's a big job. 04:11.266 --> 04:14.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Considering that we're in a climate where institutions that we once 04:14.366 --> 04:19.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% used to trust are regularly questioned, whether it's fake news or fake census, what's the 04:21.266 --> 04:25.533 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% consequence of something like this not being trusted? 04:25.533 --> 04:30.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% KENNETH PREWITT: Huge, quite honestly. 04:30.533 --> 04:33.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If we really have a bad census, one of the things that could happen is the administration 04:33.866 --> 04:38.866 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% could say, let's not use it, let's sort of just use the old numbers. 04:41.233 --> 04:44.000 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And with respect to redistricting, allocation of seats in the U.S. Congress, that means 04:45.600 --> 04:47.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we would go with what we now have. 04:47.533 --> 04:50.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% A lot of population movement in the last 10 years. 04:50.700 --> 04:52.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So this would really be a setback. 04:52.633 --> 04:56.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: It seems constitutionally it was designed as a representative tool, 04:56.633 --> 05:01.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% not a political one, but over the years, it's been used by either side that's in control 05:02.500 --> 05:04.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% as kind of a political tool. 05:04.033 --> 05:06.466 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT: I would say the Census Bureau is not political. 05:06.466 --> 05:09.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% The use of the numbers is political. 05:09.533 --> 05:13.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And as long as we can have the Census Bureau only wanting to produce the most accurate, 05:13.933 --> 05:16.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% complete count, then it, itself, is not political. 05:16.700 --> 05:20.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If they are misused are used in ways that we -- they are gerrymandering now with those 05:20.966 --> 05:22.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% census data. 05:22.933 --> 05:27.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So a population which is roughly 50/50 in terms of electoral strength is roughly 60/40 05:27.200 --> 05:30.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in terms of seats in the Congress and governorships. 05:30.066 --> 05:34.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Are there vested interests in wanting to maintain the status quo? 05:34.366 --> 05:36.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT: Well, yes. 05:36.333 --> 05:40.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I'm trying not to be political here, but if you like the distribution of seats and 05:42.400 --> 05:45.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the distribution governorships in particular in the country now, and you think that by 05:45.700 --> 05:50.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% having a good census, you may lose some of the seats, then why would you want to have 05:51.300 --> 05:53.266 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% a good census? 05:53.266 --> 05:56.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% HARI SREENIVASAN: Can the census be salvaged or saved, given the amount of time and the 05:57.900 --> 05:59.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% amount of money that we have right now? 05:59.433 --> 06:01.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT: Oh, yes. 06:01.700 --> 06:06.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If there was strong leadership in place within the next five months -- let us say four or 06:08.666 --> 06:11.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% five months, and if the budget were where it ought to be, yes, it can be saved. 06:12.966 --> 06:15.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There comes a time when you can't save it. 06:15.033 --> 06:19.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% If you have not tested the census in 2018, it's too late to fix it, even if you tested 06:20.266 --> 06:22.200 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% it in 2019. 06:22.200 --> 06:26.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You don't have the time to go back and fix any of the problems you encountered in the 06:26.033 --> 06:28.033 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% big test. 06:28.033 --> 06:29.933 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% HARI SREENIVASAN: Kenneth Prewitt, now of Columbia University, former director of the 06:29.933 --> 06:31.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% U.S. census, thanks for joining us. 06:31.633 --> 06:32.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% KENNETH PREWITT: My pleasure. 06:32.633 --> 06:32.766 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% Thanks.