1 00:00:02,033 --> 00:00:05,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: As the Senate returned to Washington and House members stayed home, last night, 2 00:00:05,166 --> 00:00:10,166 on FOX News, President Trump declared the economy is on its way to a speedy recovery. 3 00:00:12,166 --> 00:00:15,200 Here to analyze the politics of his response and more, Amy Walter of The Cook Political 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,633 Report and the host of public radio's "Politics With Amy Walter," and Tamara Keith of NPR. 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,400 She also co-hosts the "NPR Politics Podcast." 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,466 Hello to both of you. 7 00:00:27,466 --> 00:00:31,066 And before I turn to you, I want to let you listen to some of what President Trump had 8 00:00:31,066 --> 00:00:36,066 to say at this FOX town hall last night, and also some of what Joe Biden had to say today 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,966 at a different town hall that had to do with helping essential workers, particularly in 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,500 the Latino community. 11 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:48,133 Let's listen to both of those, and I will come back. 12 00:00:48,133 --> 00:00:50,033 DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: You get a job where you make more money, frankly. 13 00:00:50,033 --> 00:00:52,133 And I think that's going to happen. 14 00:00:52,133 --> 00:00:55,100 I think we're going to have an incredible following year. We're going to go into a transition 15 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:58,166 in the third quarter, and we're going to see things happening that look good. I really 16 00:00:58,166 --> 00:01:01,733 believe that. I have a good feel for this stuff. I have done it for a long time. 17 00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:03,866 JOSEPH BIDEN (D), Presidential Candidate: You know, I have put out a detailed plan about 18 00:01:03,866 --> 00:01:08,600 what I think we should be doing right now to support our front-line workers and address 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,033 the disparities we're seeing with COVID-19 impacts all across the country. 20 00:01:13,033 --> 00:01:18,033 And I truly think that, if we do this right, we have an incredible opportunity to not just 21 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,466 dig out of this crisis, but to fundamentally transform the country. 22 00:01:24,466 --> 00:01:28,433 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amy, I'm going to come to you first. 23 00:01:28,433 --> 00:01:33,433 You have the president pivoting to talk about the economy at a time when, frankly, the numbers 24 00:01:35,433 --> 00:01:39,700 of cases and deaths on COVID are not looking very good. The president acknowledged that 25 00:01:41,633 --> 00:01:44,166 in part last night. But he's talking about the economy, saying it's going to get better. 26 00:01:44,166 --> 00:01:48,633 Joe Biden, on the other hand, talking about how we need to protect these front-line workers. 27 00:01:48,633 --> 00:01:52,366 What do you make of these two approaches? Here we are in May of this election year. 28 00:01:52,366 --> 00:01:54,466 AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: That's right. 29 00:01:54,466 --> 00:01:58,833 You can hear it with President Trump last night in that town hall. He was so nostalgic 30 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:05,700 for that time before COVID, when the economy was strong, his numbers on handling the economy 31 00:02:07,766 --> 00:02:12,100 so strong, and his focus was winning the election on the strength of a good economy. 32 00:02:14,166 --> 00:02:18,633 And now here we are with this pandemic that is not just devastating our health, but obviously 33 00:02:20,666 --> 00:02:25,166 devastating the economy. And he wants to, and he said over and over again, bring America 34 00:02:27,133 --> 00:02:30,233 back, we need to get Americans working, we need to get this economy back. 35 00:02:30,233 --> 00:02:34,833 With Joe Biden, what I find really interesting, Judy, is that -- especially that clip that 36 00:02:34,833 --> 00:02:39,833 put in there, was Joe Biden was attacked by many in the progressive community for not 37 00:02:41,833 --> 00:02:46,233 wanting to be progressive -- for not being progressive enough, for being really a status-quo 38 00:02:47,966 --> 00:02:50,500 stand-in. 39 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:54,000 And what he's doing is not just talking about bringing the economy back, but putting a focus 40 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,366 on the people who are looking to make more structural -- what he is looking to do is 41 00:03:01,466 --> 00:03:05,566 make more structural change by focusing on the people who right now are not just on the 42 00:03:05,566 --> 00:03:10,566 front lines -- he talked a lot about meatpacking workers -- but who also are -- were doing 43 00:03:12,533 --> 00:03:16,966 poorly in the economy before the COVID-19 outbreak and continue to struggle even now. 44 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:24,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Tam, as you listen to this and you look at what these two candidates 45 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:30,300 are saying, what does it tell you about where they see themselves in this contest? 46 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:35,300 TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: President Trump wanted his campaign slogan, had been 47 00:03:36,466 --> 00:03:38,966 sort of rolling out to be, keep America great. 48 00:03:38,966 --> 00:03:43,066 And now it's more like, make America great again, again. 49 00:03:43,066 --> 00:03:48,066 But, you know, you have a situation where you have the president of the United States 50 00:03:50,033 --> 00:03:54,100 with all the advantages of incumbency that a president of the United States has. And 51 00:03:56,566 --> 00:04:00,333 you have Joe Biden sort of stuck in his basement doing these Webcasts, trying his best to campaign. 52 00:04:03,433 --> 00:04:05,500 But it's very different. 53 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:08,133 Now, obviously, President Trump can't go to rallies. He is yearning for a day when he 54 00:04:08,133 --> 00:04:13,133 can get back out in an arena with 25,000 people. Unclear when or if that will happen. 55 00:04:15,233 --> 00:04:20,233 But, certainly, he still has the ability to, you know, get on Air Force One, like he's 56 00:04:21,833 --> 00:04:26,600 going to do tomorrow, and sort of flaunt the power of the presidency. 57 00:04:27,733 --> 00:04:29,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: That's right, Amy. 58 00:04:29,766 --> 00:04:34,566 The president tomorrow is going to fly from Washington to Arizona to visit a company where 59 00:04:36,566 --> 00:04:40,366 they manufacture protective gear, masks that people are wearing right now. How much of 60 00:04:42,266 --> 00:04:46,333 an advantage does the president have at a time like this? Joe Biden is at home. 61 00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:48,433 AMY WALTER: Right. 62 00:04:48,433 --> 00:04:52,033 And you could hear if that audio, he wasn't just in the basement. He was sitting, I think, 63 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:56,466 on some sort of porch or something. You could hear crickets or frogs or something in the 64 00:04:56,466 --> 00:05:01,000 background, while the president gets to not only fly in Air Force One, but sits at the 65 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,600 Lincoln Memorial. The contrast couldn't be stronger. 66 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,600 At the same time even with those advantages, Judy, the president is still looking at approval 67 00:05:10,666 --> 00:05:15,333 ratings that are in some cases 20 to 30 points lower than governors in many of these states, 68 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,700 red states, blue states. 69 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:24,666 All these governors have used this opportunity in the spotlight, under this crisis moment, 70 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:27,600 to meet that moment. 71 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,233 This president has met it in the same way he meets every moment, which is in this very 72 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,633 polarizing, sort of predictable way. And so what should be a big advantage of a bully 73 00:05:39,866 --> 00:05:42,066 pulpit has not worked out that way. 74 00:05:42,066 --> 00:05:43,300 (CROSSTALK) 75 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:45,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Tam -- go ahead, Tam. 76 00:05:45,333 --> 00:05:49,833 TAMARA KEITH: This trip to Arizona is an official event. It is not a campaign event. 77 00:05:49,833 --> 00:05:54,233 But it is not a coincidence that the president is going to Arizona. It's a state that he 78 00:05:54,233 --> 00:05:59,233 won in 2016. But the reality is that it's fully in play in 2020. 79 00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:03,066 His campaign has talked to -- I talked to someone from his campaign today. They have 80 00:06:03,066 --> 00:06:08,066 had people on the ground there since 2015. But there's a real sense that this is a state 81 00:06:10,466 --> 00:06:14,733 that they're going to have to fight for, that Arizona used to be red Arizona, isn't a guarantee. 82 00:06:16,866 --> 00:06:20,600 And, certainly, under the current circumstances, it's not a guarantee. 83 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Amy, you brought up the governors. We are seeing right now a number 84 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,333 of states, I guess, what is it, they're saying 29, 30 states, go ahead and planning to open 85 00:06:32,833 --> 00:06:37,300 up again, even with these forecasts of rising cases and deaths. 86 00:06:39,333 --> 00:06:42,400 And the states that seem to be moving ahead, more of them have Republican governors. The 87 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,833 states that are saying, no, let's wait, more of them have Democratic governors. 88 00:06:46,833 --> 00:06:49,133 How partisan is this right now? 89 00:06:49,133 --> 00:06:51,833 AMY WALTER: Yes, it's really interesting, Judy. 90 00:06:51,833 --> 00:06:56,833 The Kaiser Foundation had an interesting pullout this morning that looked at -- or some data 91 00:06:58,733 --> 00:07:02,266 out this morning that looked at the rate of growth, especially over the last two weeks, 92 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,700 in states that had Democratic governors and states that had Republican governors. 93 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:11,566 Now, while it is true that states that have Democratic governors overall have more deaths, 94 00:07:13,966 --> 00:07:16,700 even per capita, than those who have red governors, when you look over the last two weeks at the 95 00:07:18,666 --> 00:07:22,033 rate of growth in both cases and deaths, it is the red states that are seeing an incredible 96 00:07:22,033 --> 00:07:24,133 uptick. 97 00:07:24,133 --> 00:07:27,800 So, the question -- and you are right to ask this, Judy -- is, what if this is true that 98 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,000 we're not only going to see more cases, but more deaths in red states? Is that going to 99 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:36,000 change the perception by people who live in those states and governors on this issue? 100 00:07:37,966 --> 00:07:41,433 And what I found really interesting, I was digging through some polls taken in Michigan 101 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,266 and in Florida. These are two battleground states. One has a Democratic governor. One 102 00:07:45,266 --> 00:07:47,300 has a Republican governor. 103 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:51,333 When you asked voters in those states, how worried are you about actually contracting 104 00:07:51,333 --> 00:07:56,333 coronavirus, and then asked specifically, very worried or somewhat worried, the people 105 00:07:58,266 --> 00:08:02,433 who said they were very worried also happened to line up pretty closely with whether you 106 00:08:03,533 --> 00:08:06,000 were a Clinton voter or not. 107 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,933 So, in Michigan, it was something like 52 percent of Clinton voters said they were very 108 00:08:09,933 --> 00:08:14,933 worried about that, of getting coronavirus, 57 percent in Florida. But among voters who 109 00:08:17,366 --> 00:08:20,100 voted for Trump in 2016, a quarter or a third said they were very worried about this issue. 110 00:08:22,033 --> 00:08:25,666 So, you can see at that moment, whether you have a red governor -- you're in a red state 111 00:08:25,666 --> 00:08:30,666 or a blue state, governor who is Democrat, governor who's Republican, the voter themselves 112 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,366 and the ideological lens through which they're looking also is impacting how serious they 113 00:08:37,633 --> 00:08:40,733 believe the threat of COVID infection is. 114 00:08:40,733 --> 00:08:43,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: Tam, you have got 30 seconds. 115 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,866 TAMARA KEITH: Yes. 116 00:08:45,866 --> 00:08:49,733 So, I was talking to a researcher at Hamilton College about this. And he was pointing out 117 00:08:49,733 --> 00:08:54,733 that, up until this point, there's been sort of a disproportionate weight of the coronavirus 118 00:08:56,766 --> 00:08:59,566 being borne by counties that were Clinton counties, that went for Hillary Clinton. 119 00:08:59,566 --> 00:09:04,566 And there are also a lot of racial disparities that are underlying that and might explain 120 00:09:06,566 --> 00:09:10,533 why the politics are the way they are. But that could certainly change as the virus changes 121 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,533 the way it affects the country. 122 00:09:13,533 --> 00:09:18,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: So interesting, these numbers state by state. We're seeing things we didn't 123 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,900 see just a month or so ago. 124 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,133 Tamara Keith, Amy Walter, we thank you both. 125 00:09:23,133 --> 00:09:24,133 AMY WALTER: You're welcome. 126 00:09:24,133 --> 00:09:25,066 TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.