1 00:00:02,533 --> 00:00:04,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: The partial government shutdown is looking more and more like a personal showdown 2 00:00:04,933 --> 00:00:09,033 tonight between President Trump and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. 3 00:00:09,033 --> 00:00:14,033 This afternoon, at the last minute, Mr. Trump rescinded approval for a U.S. military plane 4 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,033 to fly Pelosi and a congressional delegation to Afghanistan. 5 00:00:18,033 --> 00:00:23,033 In a letter to the speaker, he cited the shutdown, and said -- quote -- "I'm sure you would agree 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,633 that postponing this public relations event is totally appropriate." 7 00:00:30,666 --> 00:00:33,633 This came a day after Pelosi called for postponing the State of the Union address. 8 00:00:33,633 --> 00:00:35,233 She defended that stance today. 9 00:00:35,233 --> 00:00:37,300 REP. 10 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:39,866 NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), Speaker of the House: The date of the State of the Union is not 11 00:00:39,866 --> 00:00:44,366 a sacred date, it's not constitutionally required, it's not the president's birthday, it's not 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:45,966 anything. 13 00:00:45,966 --> 00:00:48,033 It is a date that we agreed to. 14 00:00:48,033 --> 00:00:52,233 It could have been a week later, and it could be a week later if government is open. 15 00:00:54,333 --> 00:00:57,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: Meanwhile, more federal employees are being called back to work. 16 00:00:57,766 --> 00:01:02,733 The State Department today ordered U.S. diplomats here and abroad to return to their jobs. 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,100 It said it found money to pay them, but it gave no details. 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:12,100 Overall, more than 450,000 federal employees are now working without pay. 19 00:01:14,166 --> 00:01:18,333 Our congressional correspondent, Lisa Desjardins, joins me now to help break down today's events. 20 00:01:18,333 --> 00:01:21,900 So, Lisa, first of all, what is the Congress saying about this announcement from the State 21 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:22,900 Department? 22 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:24,966 LISA DESJARDINS: Right. 23 00:01:24,966 --> 00:01:26,766 So the first thing to think to say is that there are some questions about how exactly 24 00:01:26,766 --> 00:01:28,800 this is working. 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,000 And we saw from the leading Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez, 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,000 he calls it a scheme, and he said he's not sure that this funding is actually appropriate. 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,033 I think he's also -- he's not saying he is going to do a hearing yet, but he says it's 28 00:01:41,033 --> 00:01:42,766 a political move. 29 00:01:42,766 --> 00:01:45,100 And I think the bigger question here, Judy, is, this is a new precedent. 30 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,800 This is the president changing the rules of a shutdown in a way. 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,066 And we still have to figure out exactly how he's doing this. 32 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:53,533 Everyone says, yes, we want people back to work, but is he changing the rules to his 33 00:01:53,533 --> 00:01:55,600 benefit? 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,133 JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, so now let's talk about the president's surprise announcement. 35 00:01:58,133 --> 00:02:03,100 Just before this delegation was to take off for the Middle East, the president announced 36 00:02:05,033 --> 00:02:08,533 in a letter to Speaker Pelosi, which the White House released, that the trip wasn't going 37 00:02:08,533 --> 00:02:11,000 to happen, that the plane wasn't going to be allowed to fly. 38 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,066 What are they saying on Capitol Hill about it? 39 00:02:13,066 --> 00:02:15,800 LISA DESJARDINS: I want to first show you a picture that conveys kind of the situation. 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,633 The members who were going on this CODEL were getting onto... 41 00:02:18,633 --> 00:02:20,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: CODEL, the term for congressional delegation. 42 00:02:20,933 --> 00:02:21,933 Go ahead. 43 00:02:21,933 --> 00:02:23,400 LISA DESJARDINS: That's right. 44 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,433 That's right, exactly, this trip overseas, exactly. 45 00:02:25,433 --> 00:02:28,000 There you see the members of Congress had been on the bus, ready to go to the airport 46 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,000 for this trip overseas. 47 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,933 There you see Adam Schiff. 48 00:02:30,933 --> 00:02:33,500 He's the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee getting off the bus. 49 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:36,100 So this was actually obviously very late notice. 50 00:02:36,100 --> 00:02:39,800 And what Schiff said is, he said that it was inappropriate, first of all, to reveal that 51 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:40,800 this trip existed. 52 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,933 These are highly secure events. 53 00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:47,300 Another member going on that trip, Elaine Luria, who is a Navy veteran from Virginia, 54 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:50,966 she said it was an insult that the president called it a public relations move. 55 00:02:50,966 --> 00:02:55,333 Now, if you talk to Republicans, like I did on the Senate, the chairman of the Senate 56 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:59,566 Armed Services Committee, Johnny Isakson, said, actually, the president has this power, 57 00:02:59,566 --> 00:03:03,166 and I do think that she -- the speaker should not have planned a trip or should not have 58 00:03:03,166 --> 00:03:05,733 planned to go on this trip during this time. 59 00:03:05,733 --> 00:03:08,833 But the rest of Republicans, Judy, they're having real trouble with this, because, as 60 00:03:08,833 --> 00:03:13,833 I phrased to them, should a sitting president of any party be able to cancel a trip for 61 00:03:14,933 --> 00:03:16,400 a leader of Congress of any party? 62 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,500 I asked Senate Pat Roberts that, and he said, "I'm not sure." 63 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,566 One other note, Judy. 64 00:03:21,566 --> 00:03:24,700 Those Senate Republicans when I talked to them had just come from their retreat today, 65 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:27,366 which was at a local baseball park here in Washington. 66 00:03:27,366 --> 00:03:29,366 What did they hear? 67 00:03:29,366 --> 00:03:32,833 They heard from people like Karl Rove that Republicans' problem is with suburban women, 68 00:03:32,833 --> 00:03:34,800 especially married women. 69 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,566 We have polling that shows those suburban women, 73 percent of them have a more negative 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,166 opinion of the president because of this shutdown. 71 00:03:43,166 --> 00:03:45,833 That is pressure that is on Republicans right now. 72 00:03:45,833 --> 00:03:47,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: Fascinating. 73 00:03:47,333 --> 00:03:50,900 So, what about, though, whether this is unprecedented or not? 74 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:52,133 People were talking about that today. 75 00:03:52,133 --> 00:03:54,266 Has this ever happened before? 76 00:03:54,266 --> 00:03:56,633 LISA DESJARDINS: We reached out to the Senate historian's office and to several other of 77 00:03:56,633 --> 00:04:01,600 the White House historical office, and no one knows yet for sure, but Democrats say 78 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,433 - - and one other kind of like self-acclaimed historian I spoke to at Congress believes 79 00:04:07,433 --> 00:04:09,500 that this is unprecedented. 80 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:12,100 That's what Adam Schiff said, that nothing like this has happened before. 81 00:04:12,100 --> 00:04:16,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally, most important thing, any policy developments toward reaching agreement 82 00:04:16,166 --> 00:04:18,266 to get the government back open again? 83 00:04:18,266 --> 00:04:21,000 LISA DESJARDINS: I'm so glad we're coming back to that, because that's the big frustration 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,000 here. 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,433 There's such a disconnect. 86 00:04:23,433 --> 00:04:25,433 The Capitol is talking less and less about policy. 87 00:04:25,433 --> 00:04:30,400 In fact, I asked Speaker Pelosi, just she and I. I asked her today, do you favor a steel 88 00:04:31,966 --> 00:04:34,500 slat fence, which many people have thought that's the endgame here? 89 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,133 He doesn't -- they don't want a wall. 90 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:37,566 Call it a fence. 91 00:04:37,566 --> 00:04:39,633 And she said: "It doesn't matter what I think. 92 00:04:39,633 --> 00:04:44,100 It matters if the president thinks it's a wall," meaning she's not even really engaging 93 00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:46,233 in what it is that Democrats want. 94 00:04:46,233 --> 00:04:50,433 And it's all a bit of politics and gaming out the president's thought. 95 00:04:50,433 --> 00:04:54,966 But, meanwhile, Judy, House Democratic freshmen - - I spoke to one, Jahana Hayes -- she says, 96 00:04:54,966 --> 00:04:57,033 yes, we would accept a fence. 97 00:04:57,033 --> 00:05:00,900 So, underneath leadership, there's discussion of the reality of the policy. 98 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:05,433 But at the leadership level, both at the White House and at Congress, it is nothing but politics 99 00:05:05,433 --> 00:05:07,133 now. 100 00:05:07,133 --> 00:05:09,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: And the horizon shows nothing in terms of a breakthrough? 101 00:05:09,366 --> 00:05:10,866 LISA DESJARDINS: No. 102 00:05:10,866 --> 00:05:12,600 Right now, we don't expect Congress back until Tuesday. 103 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: Remarkable. 104 00:05:14,966 --> 00:05:18,166 Meanwhile, federal employees, as we're reporting in the program, continue to feel the consequences. 105 00:05:18,166 --> 00:05:19,400 LISA DESJARDINS: That's right. 106 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: Lisa Desjardins, thank you.