WEBVTT 00:02.533 --> 00:04.933 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: The partial government shutdown is looking more and more like a personal showdown 00:04.933 --> 00:09.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% tonight between President Trump and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. 00:09.033 --> 00:14.033 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% This afternoon, at the last minute, Mr. Trump rescinded approval for a U.S. military plane 00:15.500 --> 00:18.033 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% to fly Pelosi and a congressional delegation to Afghanistan. 00:18.033 --> 00:23.033 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% In a letter to the speaker, he cited the shutdown, and said -- quote -- "I'm sure you would agree 00:24.600 --> 00:28.633 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% that postponing this public relations event is totally appropriate." 00:30.666 --> 00:33.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% This came a day after Pelosi called for postponing the State of the Union address. 00:33.633 --> 00:35.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% She defended that stance today. 00:35.233 --> 00:37.300 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% REP. 00:37.300 --> 00:39.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), Speaker of the House: The date of the State of the Union is not 00:39.866 --> 00:44.366 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% a sacred date, it's not constitutionally required, it's not the president's birthday, it's not 00:45.000 --> 00:45.966 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% anything. 00:45.966 --> 00:48.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It is a date that we agreed to. 00:48.033 --> 00:52.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It could have been a week later, and it could be a week later if government is open. 00:54.333 --> 00:57.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Meanwhile, more federal employees are being called back to work. 00:57.766 --> 01:02.733 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The State Department today ordered U.S. diplomats here and abroad to return to their jobs. 01:04.200 --> 01:07.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It said it found money to pay them, but it gave no details. 01:07.100 --> 01:12.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Overall, more than 450,000 federal employees are now working without pay. 01:14.166 --> 01:18.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Our congressional correspondent, Lisa Desjardins, joins me now to help break down today's events. 01:18.333 --> 01:21.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, Lisa, first of all, what is the Congress saying about this announcement from the State 01:21.900 --> 01:22.900 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Department? 01:22.900 --> 01:24.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: Right. 01:24.966 --> 01:26.766 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So the first thing to think to say is that there are some questions about how exactly 01:26.766 --> 01:28.800 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% this is working. 01:28.800 --> 01:32.000 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% And we saw from the leading Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez, 01:32.000 --> 01:37.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% he calls it a scheme, and he said he's not sure that this funding is actually appropriate. 01:39.000 --> 01:41.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think he's also -- he's not saying he is going to do a hearing yet, but he says it's 01:41.033 --> 01:42.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% a political move. 01:42.766 --> 01:45.100 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% And I think the bigger question here, Judy, is, this is a new precedent. 01:45.100 --> 01:47.800 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% This is the president changing the rules of a shutdown in a way. 01:47.800 --> 01:50.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And we still have to figure out exactly how he's doing this. 01:50.066 --> 01:53.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Everyone says, yes, we want people back to work, but is he changing the rules to his 01:53.533 --> 01:55.600 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% benefit? 01:55.600 --> 01:58.133 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, so now let's talk about the president's surprise announcement. 01:58.133 --> 02:03.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Just before this delegation was to take off for the Middle East, the president announced 02:05.033 --> 02:08.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% in a letter to Speaker Pelosi, which the White House released, that the trip wasn't going 02:08.533 --> 02:11.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to happen, that the plane wasn't going to be allowed to fly. 02:11.000 --> 02:13.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What are they saying on Capitol Hill about it? 02:13.066 --> 02:15.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: I want to first show you a picture that conveys kind of the situation. 02:15.800 --> 02:18.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The members who were going on this CODEL were getting onto... 02:18.633 --> 02:20.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: CODEL, the term for congressional delegation. 02:20.933 --> 02:21.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Go ahead. 02:21.933 --> 02:23.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: That's right. 02:23.400 --> 02:25.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That's right, exactly, this trip overseas, exactly. 02:25.433 --> 02:28.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% There you see the members of Congress had been on the bus, ready to go to the airport 02:28.000 --> 02:29.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for this trip overseas. 02:29.000 --> 02:30.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There you see Adam Schiff. 02:30.933 --> 02:33.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% He's the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee getting off the bus. 02:33.500 --> 02:36.100 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So this was actually obviously very late notice. 02:36.100 --> 02:39.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And what Schiff said is, he said that it was inappropriate, first of all, to reveal that 02:39.800 --> 02:40.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% this trip existed. 02:40.800 --> 02:42.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% These are highly secure events. 02:42.933 --> 02:47.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Another member going on that trip, Elaine Luria, who is a Navy veteran from Virginia, 02:47.300 --> 02:50.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% she said it was an insult that the president called it a public relations move. 02:50.966 --> 02:55.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Now, if you talk to Republicans, like I did on the Senate, the chairman of the Senate 02:55.333 --> 02:59.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Armed Services Committee, Johnny Isakson, said, actually, the president has this power, 02:59.566 --> 03:03.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and I do think that she -- the speaker should not have planned a trip or should not have 03:03.166 --> 03:05.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% planned to go on this trip during this time. 03:05.733 --> 03:08.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the rest of Republicans, Judy, they're having real trouble with this, because, as 03:08.833 --> 03:13.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I phrased to them, should a sitting president of any party be able to cancel a trip for 03:14.933 --> 03:16.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a leader of Congress of any party? 03:16.400 --> 03:19.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I asked Senate Pat Roberts that, and he said, "I'm not sure." 03:19.500 --> 03:21.566 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% One other note, Judy. 03:21.566 --> 03:24.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Those Senate Republicans when I talked to them had just come from their retreat today, 03:24.700 --> 03:27.366 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% which was at a local baseball park here in Washington. 03:27.366 --> 03:29.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% What did they hear? 03:29.366 --> 03:32.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% They heard from people like Karl Rove that Republicans' problem is with suburban women, 03:32.833 --> 03:34.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% especially married women. 03:34.800 --> 03:39.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We have polling that shows those suburban women, 73 percent of them have a more negative 03:41.000 --> 03:43.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% opinion of the president because of this shutdown. 03:43.166 --> 03:45.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That is pressure that is on Republicans right now. 03:45.833 --> 03:47.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Fascinating. 03:47.333 --> 03:50.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So, what about, though, whether this is unprecedented or not? 03:50.900 --> 03:52.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% People were talking about that today. 03:52.133 --> 03:54.266 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Has this ever happened before? 03:54.266 --> 03:56.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: We reached out to the Senate historian's office and to several other of 03:56.633 --> 04:01.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the White House historical office, and no one knows yet for sure, but Democrats say 04:03.600 --> 04:07.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% - - and one other kind of like self-acclaimed historian I spoke to at Congress believes 04:07.433 --> 04:09.500 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that this is unprecedented. 04:09.500 --> 04:12.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% That's what Adam Schiff said, that nothing like this has happened before. 04:12.100 --> 04:16.166 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally, most important thing, any policy developments toward reaching agreement 04:16.166 --> 04:18.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% to get the government back open again? 04:18.266 --> 04:21.000 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: I'm so glad we're coming back to that, because that's the big frustration 04:21.000 --> 04:22.000 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% here. 04:22.000 --> 04:23.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There's such a disconnect. 04:23.433 --> 04:25.433 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The Capitol is talking less and less about policy. 04:25.433 --> 04:30.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% In fact, I asked Speaker Pelosi, just she and I. I asked her today, do you favor a steel 04:31.966 --> 04:34.500 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% slat fence, which many people have thought that's the endgame here? 04:34.500 --> 04:36.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% He doesn't -- they don't want a wall. 04:36.133 --> 04:37.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% Call it a fence. 04:37.566 --> 04:39.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And she said: "It doesn't matter what I think. 04:39.633 --> 04:44.100 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It matters if the president thinks it's a wall," meaning she's not even really engaging 04:44.100 --> 04:46.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in what it is that Democrats want. 04:46.233 --> 04:50.433 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% And it's all a bit of politics and gaming out the president's thought. 04:50.433 --> 04:54.966 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% But, meanwhile, Judy, House Democratic freshmen - - I spoke to one, Jahana Hayes -- she says, 04:54.966 --> 04:57.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% yes, we would accept a fence. 04:57.033 --> 05:00.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So, underneath leadership, there's discussion of the reality of the policy. 05:00.900 --> 05:05.433 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% But at the leadership level, both at the White House and at Congress, it is nothing but politics 05:05.433 --> 05:07.133 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% now. 05:07.133 --> 05:09.366 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: And the horizon shows nothing in terms of a breakthrough? 05:09.366 --> 05:10.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% LISA DESJARDINS: No. 05:10.866 --> 05:12.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Right now, we don't expect Congress back until Tuesday. 05:12.600 --> 05:14.966 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Remarkable. 05:14.966 --> 05:18.166 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Meanwhile, federal employees, as we're reporting in the program, continue to feel the consequences. 05:18.166 --> 05:19.400 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: That's right. 05:19.400 --> 05:20.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Lisa Desjardins, thank you.