1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,400 JUDY WOODRUFF: And that brings us to Politics Monday. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,700 To help us dive further into the Democratic primary, I'm joined by Amy Walter of The Cook 3 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:12,700 Political Report and public radio's "Politics With Amy Walter," and Tamara Keith of NPR, 4 00:00:14,566 --> 00:00:18,400 co-host of the "NPR Politics Podcast." 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,833 Hello to both of you. 6 00:00:19,833 --> 00:00:22,500 It's almost here, just hours on you way. 7 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:27,500 So, Amy, Joe Biden said it himself, we heard in our reporting earlier. A few days ago, 8 00:00:29,566 --> 00:00:31,566 the pundits were writing him off, asking why was he still in the race. Was he going to 9 00:00:31,566 --> 00:00:33,700 get out? 10 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:36,866 Today, he is -- they are announcing endorsements practically by the hour every few minutes. 11 00:00:36,866 --> 00:00:38,566 AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: That's right. 12 00:00:38,566 --> 00:00:39,400 JUDY WOODRUFF: What happened? We know South Carolina. What happened? 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,466 AMY WALTER: Right. 14 00:00:41,466 --> 00:00:43,900 South Carolina happened. And for the very first time in this race, the one thing that 15 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:48,866 has happened which hadn't before, which is the race finally narrowing and coalescing 16 00:00:50,833 --> 00:00:54,133 around a candidate who has been talking about electability and his ability to be the most 17 00:00:55,166 --> 00:00:57,766 electable of all the candidates. 18 00:00:57,766 --> 00:01:02,733 And it's funny. As we have gone through this process, we have seen momentum become so important, 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,833 because, again, electability has been on the forefront of voters' minds. And Joe Biden 20 00:01:07,833 --> 00:01:12,833 electability sure didn't look that set when he was losing in Iowa and Nevada and New Hampshire. 21 00:01:15,833 --> 00:01:20,833 But to come back so resoundingly in South Carolina, at a time when the rest of the voters 22 00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:26,800 who don't want to support Bernie Sanders, Democratic voters who don't want to support 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,133 Bernie Sanders, are desperate to find someone to rally around, it was actually the perfect 24 00:01:31,133 --> 00:01:32,600 timing. 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,700 JUDY WOODRUFF: One state did this for Joe Biden, Tam? 26 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:38,900 TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: And with one state, he surpassed the delegates that 27 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:44,966 Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg and Elizabeth Warren had. 28 00:01:46,933 --> 00:01:50,433 He's right behind Bernie Sanders. Now, of course, Joe Biden hasn't had the money. He 29 00:01:52,366 --> 00:01:56,400 has not had the infrastructure. And so you have Bernie Sanders preparing to compete in 30 00:01:58,366 --> 00:02:00,900 all of these Super Tuesday states, spending a lot of money, all of this. 31 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:05,866 And what Joe Biden has is free media. And his campaign had kind of been betting on this. 32 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:10,600 And a lot of us were like, really, this is your plan? 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,600 But -- right. So they figured, if he wins big in South Carolina, that will give him 34 00:02:17,633 --> 00:02:20,800 a boost. People will be talking about him. Now they're keeping it going with these endorsements 35 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,800 rolling in, trying to create this air of inevitability, like he's the one. 36 00:02:27,766 --> 00:02:29,833 There's the Bernie Sanders' lane, and then there's Joe Biden. And that's particularly 37 00:02:29,833 --> 00:02:34,766 important in trying to convince people who are maybe considering voting for Michael Bloomberg 38 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:38,766 to say, OK, let's just consolidate this. Let's go for Joe Biden. 39 00:02:38,766 --> 00:02:42,933 Now, of course, as we also saw, a lot of people have voted already. 40 00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:47,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, but, Amy, again, Tom Steyer, dropped out, then Pete Buttigieg, and then 41 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:50,700 today Amy Klobuchar. 42 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:52,733 All their votes, do they absolutely go to Joe Biden? I mean, what happens? 43 00:02:52,733 --> 00:02:54,866 AMY WALTER: Absolutely not. And that's -- right. We can't assume that. 44 00:02:54,866 --> 00:02:56,900 (LAUGHTER) 45 00:02:56,900 --> 00:03:00,600 AMY WALTER: But we do know that those folks, Tom Steyer aside, that, especially with Pete 46 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,533 Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar, they're in this part of the party, or they represented a part 47 00:03:05,533 --> 00:03:08,433 of the party that really was focused on this electability. 48 00:03:08,433 --> 00:03:11,866 Who's a candidate that we can support who we think is going to beat Donald Trump who's 49 00:03:11,866 --> 00:03:16,866 not named Bernie Sanders? We're not interested in supporting somebody like Bernie Sanders. 50 00:03:18,766 --> 00:03:20,133 So that support could also go to Elizabeth Warren. So, there's not... 51 00:03:20,133 --> 00:03:21,400 JUDY WOODRUFF: Who is still in the race. 52 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,533 AMY WALTER: Who is still in the race. 53 00:03:23,533 --> 00:03:25,600 And Tam makes this point about Michael Bloomberg. And I think that's really important as we 54 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,233 go into Super Tuesday. The biggest hurdles still for Joe Biden, the early vote that we 55 00:03:29,233 --> 00:03:33,666 have talked about and that Amna talked about in California, and then Michael Bloomberg. 56 00:03:33,666 --> 00:03:38,666 He is still -- he's spent a ton of money. He's still on the ballot, obviously, in states 57 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:43,666 like California, Texas, North Carolina that have a lot of delegates. 58 00:03:43,666 --> 00:03:48,433 And every delegate he pulls, he's pulling from Joe Biden. He does especially well or 59 00:03:48,433 --> 00:03:53,433 has been in the polling among African-American voters. That is obviously what got Joe Biden 60 00:03:54,766 --> 00:03:56,900 his success in South Carolina. 61 00:03:56,900 --> 00:04:01,366 So -- but Michael Bloomberg needs to do less well than he was doing in the polls before 62 00:04:03,366 --> 00:04:07,066 South Carolina in order for Biden to really get the sort of coalescing that he wants to 63 00:04:08,866 --> 00:04:11,300 show with this endorsement by Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg. 64 00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:15,200 TAMARA KEITH: And I think an important thing to say about polling right now is that polls 65 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,200 are a snapshot of a moment in time, and things are changing very quickly right now. 66 00:04:20,933 --> 00:04:22,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: They are. 67 00:04:22,933 --> 00:04:26,000 TAMARA KEITH: For so long, this race felt like it wasn't moving very quickly, that there 68 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,133 were so many candidates. 69 00:04:28,133 --> 00:04:32,000 All of a sudden, there are not so many candidates, and a poll that was done a week ago or 48 70 00:04:33,733 --> 00:04:36,866 hours ago is not going to reflect the reality on the ground now. 71 00:04:36,866 --> 00:04:41,866 JUDY WOODRUFF: And so people -- voters -- you heard it in both of these reports, but with 72 00:04:43,866 --> 00:04:45,566 Amna especially in California, where voters who are wrestling with this, now the moment 73 00:04:45,566 --> 00:04:46,566 has come. 74 00:04:46,566 --> 00:04:47,766 AMY WALTER: Right. 75 00:04:47,766 --> 00:04:49,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: They have to make a decision. 76 00:04:49,766 --> 00:04:51,200 AMY WALTER: They have been desperate for so long. They have been saying to us for so long, 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,366 just tell me which candidate can beat Donald Trump. 78 00:04:53,366 --> 00:04:58,366 And, in fact, I think we got to this place where we are today because Democrats, Democratic 79 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,200 voters, Democratic candidates who weren't named Bernie Sanders were so obsessed with 80 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:08,200 this question of electability, that voters themselves got wrapped around this, right? 81 00:05:10,266 --> 00:05:12,533 How many voters did you talk to who said, I mean, I like this candidate, but can they 82 00:05:12,533 --> 00:05:16,866 win in Wisconsin? And do you think they will do well in enough battleground states? 83 00:05:16,866 --> 00:05:18,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: Exactly. 84 00:05:18,966 --> 00:05:20,933 AMY WALTER: And I don't know against Trump. I saw them on the debate stage. 85 00:05:20,933 --> 00:05:24,766 And so that issue became so -- it was -- it became paralyzing for so many voters. 86 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:27,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: For sure. 87 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,000 AMY WALTER: And so they were dispersing their votes among a whole bunch of people, instead 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,700 of just focusing on, here's the candidate we think is the most electable. I may not 89 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:36,400 love this person, but they can win. 90 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: I was still hearing it from Virginia voters in Virginia. I was out able 91 00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:42,600 to talk to some of them over the weekend, Tam. 92 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,600 But just quickly, on Mike Bloomberg -- and I did see him Saturday morning in Virginia. 93 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:53,666 Some of the rationale, if not the main rationale, for his candidacy was, Joe Biden may not make 94 00:05:53,666 --> 00:05:54,666 it. 95 00:05:54,666 --> 00:05:55,666 AMY WALTER: Right. 96 00:05:55,666 --> 00:05:57,333 TAMARA KEITH: Right. 97 00:05:57,333 --> 00:05:58,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: And so now, with Biden having momentum, what happens? 98 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,900 TAMARA KEITH: It's a big, giant, open question. 99 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:05,533 You know, he -- Michael Bloomberg has spent more money than God. I mean, he has spent 100 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:10,533 - - he has spent more money certainly than Barack Obama spent in his entire 2012 reelection. 101 00:06:12,466 --> 00:06:16,666 And it's not clear yet what it's going to buy. Is he going to be like a Tom Steyer, 102 00:06:16,666 --> 00:06:21,133 who people seem interested in, and then the support actually melts away when it comes 103 00:06:21,133 --> 00:06:24,833 time to voting, or is he going to get a certain amount of support? 104 00:06:24,833 --> 00:06:29,233 Will he be viable in some states? But, like, the thing is, do you spend that much money, 105 00:06:29,233 --> 00:06:34,133 do you run that hard, do you -- is your whole strategy, I'm going to go out on Super Tuesday 106 00:06:34,133 --> 00:06:39,133 and show them? Does that become -- like, what if you only are just viable in a few states 107 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:40,933 and you aren't winning states? 108 00:06:40,933 --> 00:06:43,000 How long can you maintain that? 109 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: And there is Bernie Sanders, Amy, who has a very loyal -- and, again, I 110 00:06:46,766 --> 00:06:47,833 was able to see him over the weekend. 111 00:06:47,833 --> 00:06:49,866 AMY WALTER: Yes. 112 00:06:49,866 --> 00:06:52,933 JUDY WOODRUFF: Talk about an enthusiastic crowd. Thousands were out, Springfield, Virginia. 113 00:06:52,933 --> 00:06:53,933 It doesn't get any... 114 00:06:53,933 --> 00:06:55,133 (CROSSTALK) 115 00:06:55,133 --> 00:06:57,233 AMY WALTER: That's what been fascinating. 116 00:06:57,233 --> 00:06:59,166 As I said, with this focus on -- so much of the field, so many of the voters focused on 117 00:06:59,166 --> 00:07:03,900 electability, what so many candidates were doing was running not to lose, not to lose 118 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:06,600 to Donald Trump. 119 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,200 Bernie Sanders I saw as the only candidate who was running to win, right? He didn't care 120 00:07:12,233 --> 00:07:15,100 about all these other things that people were wrapping themselves around. He has been very 121 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:20,100 committed to his message, to his ideology, to his narrative throughout this campaign. 122 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:23,400 It hasn't budged. It hasn't changed. 123 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,700 So there is an attractiveness to that. That's what a lot of voters are attracted to. And 124 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:32,500 he was able to coalesce those voters. He hasn't lost them, in the way that the ones who were 125 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:34,866 focused on electability have been diverse - - dispersed. 126 00:07:34,866 --> 00:07:35,866 (CROSSTALK) 127 00:07:35,866 --> 00:07:38,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: Excuse me. 128 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,433 As we have been saying, Tam, he does seem - - appear to be ahead in the polls in California. 129 00:07:40,433 --> 00:07:41,833 TAMARA KEITH: Way ahead. 130 00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:43,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: He's supposed to do well in Texas. 131 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:47,800 That's one reason Joe Biden is having this mega-event tonight with endorsements. 132 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:48,800 AMY WALTER: Yes. 133 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,400 TAMARA KEITH: Mega-rally. 134 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: But he could end up doing -- I mean, he could either end up cleaning up tomorrow 135 00:07:55,666 --> 00:07:59,033 or looking less than inevitable. 136 00:07:59,033 --> 00:08:04,033 TAMARA KEITH: Absolutely. Those are the options. And there's some muddle in between that could 137 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:05,433 happen. 138 00:08:05,433 --> 00:08:07,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: In between. 139 00:08:07,966 --> 00:08:10,000 AMY WALTER: But one of the things that I will be looking to see is, will some of these states 140 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,900 be more like Nevada, where he won super handily, won -- he won African-American voters, he 141 00:08:16,833 --> 00:08:21,400 won Latino voters especially -- or will some of these states be more like South Carolina, 142 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,766 where Joe Biden was able to really consolidate the African-American support? 143 00:08:24,766 --> 00:08:29,766 The question is, Bernie Sanders has been able to expand his base well beyond what it was 144 00:08:31,366 --> 00:08:35,033 in 2016. Does that hold up in every state or only some of the states? 145 00:08:35,033 --> 00:08:39,833 AMY WALTER: Right. And Nevada, of course, was a caucus. The rest of these are primaries. 146 00:08:39,833 --> 00:08:44,833 Joe Biden, yes, did very well among African-American voters and among white voters in South Carolina, 147 00:08:46,766 --> 00:08:50,366 but South Carolina doesn't look even, as you well know, like North Carolina or Virginia. 148 00:08:50,366 --> 00:08:52,333 TAMARA KEITH: Right. 149 00:08:52,333 --> 00:08:55,233 AMY WALTER: The African-American population that votes in South Carolina is bigger than 150 00:08:55,233 --> 00:08:59,833 any other state that's going to vote on Super Tuesday, maybe with the exception of Alabama. 151 00:08:59,833 --> 00:09:04,833 But the -- California and Texas, the two states with the most delegates, they also have a 152 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,333 tremendously large Latino population. That's where Bernie Sanders has also done very well, 153 00:09:12,066 --> 00:09:13,166 Joe Biden not so well. 154 00:09:13,166 --> 00:09:14,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: Targeting those voters. 155 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:16,133 AMY WALTER: That's right. 156 00:09:16,133 --> 00:09:18,200 JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we can't wait. The voters get their say, a lot of them -- what is it, 157 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,566 a third of the delegates being chosen by tomorrow. 158 00:09:21,566 --> 00:09:22,566 (CROSSTALK) 159 00:09:22,566 --> 00:09:23,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: We can't wait. 160 00:09:23,733 --> 00:09:24,666 Tamara Keith, Amy Walter, thank you both. 161 00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:25,866 TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome. 162 00:09:25,866 --> 00:09:26,000 AMY WALTER: You're welcome, Judy.