1 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:04,300 JUDY WOODRUFF: And now some perspective on the run-up to tonight's big address from opposite 2 00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:06,500 sides of the American political spectrum. 3 00:00:06,500 --> 00:00:10,400 Karine Jean-Pierre is a senior adviser for MoveOn.org. 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,533 And Chris Buskirk is the editor of the conservative journal and Web site American Greatness. 5 00:00:14,533 --> 00:00:15,866 Hello to both of you. 6 00:00:15,866 --> 00:00:17,266 CHRIS BUSKIRK, AmericanGreatness.org: Hi. 7 00:00:17,266 --> 00:00:18,733 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, Democratic Strategist: Hi, Judy. 8 00:00:18,733 --> 00:00:19,900 JUDY WOODRUFF: Great to have you back on the program. 9 00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:21,133 Chris, to you first, Chris Buskirk. 10 00:00:21,133 --> 00:00:23,233 What do you expect the president to do tonight? 11 00:00:23,233 --> 00:00:25,933 CHRIS BUSKIRK: I think what the president is going to do tonight is, he is going to 12 00:00:25,933 --> 00:00:30,933 do what he's done I think pretty well in some speeches before, which is going back to promises 13 00:00:31,666 --> 00:00:33,800 made, promises kept. 14 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,933 Here's what I have talked about in my campaign, here's what I have accomplished so far, here's 15 00:00:35,933 --> 00:00:37,433 what I still need to do. 16 00:00:37,433 --> 00:00:40,533 I think that here we are halfway through first term, right? 17 00:00:40,533 --> 00:00:45,466 This has got to be the pivot to reelection, to try to start to set the tone and set the 18 00:00:45,466 --> 00:00:49,233 trajectory for a message that's going to carry him through November of 2020. 19 00:00:49,233 --> 00:00:54,200 And I think that is -- I think that needs to be one big unifying theme that says, on 20 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,600 immigration, on trade, on foreign policy, how are all these things linked together? 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,666 What's that unifying theme? 22 00:01:00,666 --> 00:01:03,500 And I think that that theme has to be, how do you rebuild the middle class? 23 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:05,000 That's number one. 24 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,033 And I think that that's what he is going to try and do. 25 00:01:07,033 --> 00:01:10,966 JUDY WOODRUFF: And if that's what he does, Karine Jean-Pierre, how is that received by 26 00:01:11,566 --> 00:01:13,633 Democrats? 27 00:01:13,633 --> 00:01:15,733 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: So, I know that it's been reported that -- from the administration, 28 00:01:15,733 --> 00:01:19,966 from the White House, that the president is going to give a speech on unity, on greatness, 29 00:01:19,966 --> 00:01:22,033 on bipartisanship. 30 00:01:22,033 --> 00:01:25,633 And that would be great if he was able to do that, but we have not seen that from this 31 00:01:25,633 --> 00:01:28,966 president in the past now going on three years. 32 00:01:28,966 --> 00:01:33,966 And I just don't see this speech, only because of his history, of his record, being that 33 00:01:34,566 --> 00:01:36,633 impactful. 34 00:01:36,633 --> 00:01:39,766 So maybe, maybe he gets there and he makes a unity speech, but hours later, the moment 35 00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:43,000 he gets on Twitter, it all -- he steps on it. 36 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,100 So I just -- it's hard to believe. 37 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:49,666 And let's not forget, a couple of weeks ago, he gave -- he addressed the country in the 38 00:01:51,566 --> 00:01:55,333 Diplomatic Reception Room, where he talked about immigration, and that was filled with 39 00:01:55,333 --> 00:01:57,366 division. 40 00:01:57,366 --> 00:02:00,866 And then he did it weeks prior to that in the Oval Office behind the Resolute Desk. 41 00:02:00,866 --> 00:02:03,366 And that was filled with division and hate. 42 00:02:03,366 --> 00:02:06,200 So I just don't see how that's possible coming from this president. 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, in fact, Chris Buskirk, I had a chance today to spend a little bit 44 00:02:09,766 --> 00:02:13,833 of -- a few minutes with Speaker Pelosi and the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer. 45 00:02:13,833 --> 00:02:18,100 And Mr. Schumer made a point, Senator Schumer made a point of saying: We hope the president 46 00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:23,100 is going to appeal the unity, but in the past, when he's spoken at a moment, whether it's 47 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:27,933 a State of the Union address or another important speech, he's made promises or made declarations 48 00:02:27,933 --> 00:02:30,700 that he then turned around and didn't fulfill. 49 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:34,366 So what makes you convinced that tonight is going to be different? 50 00:02:34,366 --> 00:02:37,733 CHRIS BUSKIRK: Well, I think part of that is in the eye of the beholder, right? 51 00:02:37,733 --> 00:02:39,766 What is unity. 52 00:02:39,766 --> 00:02:42,266 But there's part of it that is the art of persuasion, which is to talk about it and 53 00:02:42,266 --> 00:02:47,266 to use the rhetoric of unity and to talk about, how do we be -- how are we Americans together? 54 00:02:48,033 --> 00:02:49,766 What does that mean? 55 00:02:49,766 --> 00:02:52,433 And how do we build things together, make this a better society? 56 00:02:52,433 --> 00:02:56,266 How that translates into practice, I think, is where the president needs to be very concrete. 57 00:02:56,266 --> 00:02:59,633 He needs to use that rhetoric and then say, look, these are the policies we are going 58 00:02:59,633 --> 00:03:02,866 to pursue in my administration the try and make this a reality. 59 00:03:02,866 --> 00:03:05,000 And that's what everybody is really looking for. 60 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,633 It's nice to hear the good speech, but then what are you going to do about it? 61 00:03:07,633 --> 00:03:11,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: But you have a sense that now, Chris Buskirk, the president is prepared to 62 00:03:11,733 --> 00:03:13,766 do that? 63 00:03:13,766 --> 00:03:16,066 CHRIS BUSKIRK: I think he has to, and I think that's what he's going to try and do. 64 00:03:16,066 --> 00:03:19,333 JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Karine, you're expressing doubt? 65 00:03:19,333 --> 00:03:21,000 (LAUGHTER) 66 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,600 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: He just doesn't have a record of it, Judy. 67 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,000 We have not seen that. 68 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,866 A year ago, he talked about unity. 69 00:03:25,866 --> 00:03:27,900 What did we get months later? 70 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:31,966 We got this the zero -- policy situation, where children were being ripped away from 71 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:37,433 their parents, children of undocumented immigrants coming through the southern border. 72 00:03:37,433 --> 00:03:38,966 And that was devastating to see. 73 00:03:38,966 --> 00:03:42,200 And now we're hearing many of them will never be reunited. 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,400 And the year before that, in 2017, in the joint address, the same thing. 75 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:47,400 And what did we see? 76 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,900 We heard about Charlottesville. 77 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:50,100 And what did he do there? 78 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:52,633 He said, very fine people on both sides. 79 00:03:52,633 --> 00:03:54,633 I just don't see it. 80 00:03:54,633 --> 00:03:56,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: When you hear this, Chris Buskirk, what do you think? 81 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,633 CHRIS BUSKIRK: I think that unity does not mean agreement on everything. 82 00:04:00,633 --> 00:04:01,600 And that's OK. 83 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,933 That's what politics is for. 84 00:04:03,933 --> 00:04:08,933 I think what unity means is not that Donald Trump says, well, to Speaker Pelosi, well, 85 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:12,133 OK, whatever you want, that's fine. 86 00:04:12,133 --> 00:04:16,333 I think what it means is, how do we identify the problems that the country faces, and then 87 00:04:16,333 --> 00:04:18,566 how do we work together where there's agreement? 88 00:04:18,566 --> 00:04:22,200 And then we can disagree on other things too, but let's do that in a way where we at least 89 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,500 try and set the table on common goals. 90 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:29,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: And I guess the flip side of that question, Karine Jean-Pierre, is, are 91 00:04:31,366 --> 00:04:35,500 Democrats, are people like you who work hard with organizations that oppose so much of 92 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:38,533 the president's policies, are you willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt? 93 00:04:38,533 --> 00:04:41,366 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: There are things that we can work on that's bipartisanship, which 94 00:04:41,366 --> 00:04:42,800 is DACA, infrastructure, improving... 95 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,000 (CROSSTALK) 96 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,000 JUDY WOODRUFF: Which is immigration. 97 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,000 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: Immigration, right, right, for young undocumented folks who came here 98 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,333 with their parents when they were really young. 99 00:04:53,333 --> 00:04:55,666 And there's also the criminal justice, right? 100 00:04:55,666 --> 00:04:57,133 That was done in a bipartisan way. 101 00:04:57,133 --> 00:04:58,366 It was a first step. 102 00:04:58,366 --> 00:05:00,466 And there's more to be done. 103 00:05:00,466 --> 00:05:04,366 The problem is, and what we said earlier, he declares things in his speech, but then 104 00:05:04,366 --> 00:05:06,366 he doesn't stick to them. 105 00:05:06,366 --> 00:05:10,433 And I think Democrats are ready to work on those things I just mentioned, but he doesn't 106 00:05:10,433 --> 00:05:12,500 stick to it. 107 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:14,833 JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to come -- I want to look at this, step back a little bit, Chris 108 00:05:14,833 --> 00:05:18,033 Buskirk, because part of what's going on here is that some of the -- many of the people 109 00:05:18,033 --> 00:05:22,500 who support the president don't seem to want him to cooperate with the other side. 110 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,200 And, Karine, I think you could say that about a number of progressive liberal Democrats 111 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,866 who don't want to see their party cooperate. 112 00:05:28,866 --> 00:05:30,933 What about that, Chris? 113 00:05:30,933 --> 00:05:33,000 CHRIS BUSKIRK: Well, let me give -- the best way, for me at least, to think about it is 114 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,866 to use a concrete illustration. 115 00:05:34,866 --> 00:05:36,900 So you think about the immigration issue. 116 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:41,100 I mean, this is a place where people like Speaker Pelosi and Minority Leader Schumer, 117 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:45,300 10 years ago, 12 years ago, they were talking, yes, we need a wall, we need border security. 118 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:49,433 I think what the president needs to do is explain why that's important and how that 119 00:05:49,433 --> 00:05:54,433 is something that protects -- how border security protects working families, American working 120 00:05:55,133 --> 00:05:56,133 families. 121 00:05:56,133 --> 00:05:58,700 Why? 122 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:02,066 Because it protects their most valuable asset, which is their asymmetric access to the American 123 00:06:02,066 --> 00:06:03,300 labor market. 124 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:04,933 Make that argument, maybe in a more... 125 00:06:04,933 --> 00:06:07,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: In other words, immigrants take jobs away from you? 126 00:06:07,766 --> 00:06:08,966 Is that -- I mean... 127 00:06:08,966 --> 00:06:11,100 CHRIS BUSKIRK: Take jobs away, lower wages. 128 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:14,866 I mean, more supply equals -- more supply lowers prices. 129 00:06:14,866 --> 00:06:16,866 That's basic. 130 00:06:16,866 --> 00:06:20,333 You explain that to people and say, look, this is why -- this is why immigration is 131 00:06:20,333 --> 00:06:24,233 important to me or this is why trade policy is important to me, because I want middle-income 132 00:06:24,233 --> 00:06:27,600 families to be secure economically and to be able to prosper. 133 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,033 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Karine, the flip side of that, liberal Democrats don't want their 134 00:06:32,033 --> 00:06:35,433 party leaders to work together with the president. 135 00:06:35,433 --> 00:06:38,966 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: Well, they want Democrats, in particular in the House, now that it's 136 00:06:38,966 --> 00:06:41,266 the majority, to hold this president accountable. 137 00:06:41,266 --> 00:06:44,433 And that's one of the reasons that we took back the House. 138 00:06:44,433 --> 00:06:45,700 And so that's really important. 139 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:48,433 And that looks in very different ways, right? 140 00:06:48,433 --> 00:06:50,466 That's looking at this Mueller report. 141 00:06:50,466 --> 00:06:55,033 That's also looking at, as I mentioned, the children being separated at the border, Puerto 142 00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:57,566 Rico, 3,000 people dying. 143 00:06:57,566 --> 00:07:00,333 But they also want to see Democrats moving the country forward. 144 00:07:00,333 --> 00:07:02,033 Right? 145 00:07:02,033 --> 00:07:04,500 And they have done that with voting rights and dealing with corruption. 146 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:08,666 And so those are things that they actually want to see. 147 00:07:08,666 --> 00:07:12,733 But we need Republicans on the other side to do -- to also be in there with us too. 148 00:07:12,733 --> 00:07:16,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, we're going to have a chance to talk about all of this again later 149 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,433 tonight, when we have heard what the president has to say. 150 00:07:18,433 --> 00:07:19,600 Thank you so much, Karine Jean-Pierre, Chris Buskirk. 151 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:20,600 CHRIS BUSKIRK: Thank you. 152 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:21,600 KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: Thank you. 153 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:21,733 JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you.