1 00:00:02,066 --> 00:00:04,533 NICK SCHIFRIN: This weekend, the White House unveiled the first half of its Israeli-Palestinian 2 00:00:04,533 --> 00:00:08,733 peace plan, a $50 billion economic blueprint designed to double Palestinian GDP and create 3 00:00:10,366 --> 00:00:14,133 a million jobs, while not addressing, for now, their political future. 4 00:00:14,133 --> 00:00:18,733 The report's author, senior adviser and presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner, compared it to the 5 00:00:18,733 --> 00:00:22,000 Marshall Plan that revitalized Western Europe after World War II. 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,033 JARED KUSHNER, Senior Presidential Adviser: This is a similar notion, where you're not 7 00:00:24,033 --> 00:00:26,966 just giving people a fish, like we have been doing here for a long time. 8 00:00:26,966 --> 00:00:30,033 You're teaching them to fish, and then you're buying them fishing rods and you're helping 9 00:00:30,033 --> 00:00:32,700 them become something that will be much more sustainable. 10 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:37,366 NICK SCHIFRIN: The response among Palestinians wasn't enthusiastic. 11 00:00:37,366 --> 00:00:40,166 Protesters demonstrated across multiple cities. 12 00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:44,566 And Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestinians want a political solution 13 00:00:44,566 --> 00:00:48,566 first, even if he admitted they also need economic support. 14 00:00:48,566 --> 00:00:52,933 Today, more than a million Palestinian refugees live in absolute poverty. 15 00:00:52,933 --> 00:00:57,200 More than 250,000 are unable to meet basic food needs. 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,700 The sole agency dedicated to assist them is the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, known as 17 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:03,200 UNRWA. 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,233 The Trump administration has cut all economic support to UNRWA. 19 00:01:06,233 --> 00:01:11,233 Before the plan's release, I spoke to Matthias Schmale, UNRWA's Gaza director, and Gwyn Lewis, 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,333 UNRWA's West Bank director, and asked why the Palestinian response, even before the 21 00:01:15,333 --> 00:01:17,466 plan was made public, was so negative. 22 00:01:17,466 --> 00:01:19,633 GWYN LEWIS, UNRWA Operations Director, West Bank: Well, I don't think any Palestinian 23 00:01:19,633 --> 00:01:24,500 would argue with the fact that West Bank and Gaza need economic development and economic 24 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:25,966 support. 25 00:01:25,966 --> 00:01:28,000 I think that's something that everybody agrees with. 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,400 I think what the Palestinian community are saying to me -- and the refugees in particular, 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,000 because that's whom we work with -- Is that they want to be part of the discussion. 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,600 They don't want somebody to come in and decide for them on their economic future. 29 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,266 The challenge of just looking at the economics - - and this is what the Palestinian Authority 30 00:01:45,266 --> 00:01:50,233 has been saying, I think, very, very publicly - - is, at what cost? 31 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,866 And if there's not going to be any political agreement, economic investment is not going 32 00:01:55,866 --> 00:01:57,933 to suffice. 33 00:01:57,933 --> 00:02:02,400 There is a real interest in economic investment, but there needs to be a political process 34 00:02:02,866 --> 00:02:04,700 as well. 35 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:05,633 NICK SCHIFRIN: And it has to happen simultaneously, you think? 36 00:02:05,633 --> 00:02:07,700 GWYN LEWIS: Absolutely, yes. 37 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:11,000 NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, let me turn to you and ask about Jason Greenblatt's criticism 38 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,533 of the agency. 39 00:02:12,533 --> 00:02:16,000 Recently, he was speaking to the U.N. Security Council. 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,000 And this is what he had to say: 41 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,933 JASON GREENBLATT, U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East: UNRWA is a Band-Aid. 42 00:02:19,933 --> 00:02:24,200 And the Palestinians who deserve -- who use its services deserve better, much better. 43 00:02:26,233 --> 00:02:29,033 We do not have to wait until a comprehensive solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 44 00:02:29,033 --> 00:02:31,433 is in place to address that fact. 45 00:02:31,433 --> 00:02:33,766 NICK SCHIFRIN: Is UNRWA a Band-Aid? 46 00:02:33,766 --> 00:02:38,366 Is there an economic plan that can replace UNRWA, as these U.S. officials are saying? 47 00:02:38,366 --> 00:02:41,266 MATTHIAS SCHMALE, UNRWA Operations Director, Gaza: No, UNRWA is not a Band-Aid. 48 00:02:41,266 --> 00:02:45,366 What we do in Gaza, where I work, is provide basic education. 49 00:02:45,366 --> 00:02:50,366 We run 274 schools, which had 280,000 students in them in the school year that has just finished. 50 00:02:53,533 --> 00:02:58,500 I fail to see how providing basic education to very marginalized people is Band-Aid. 51 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:05,066 We run 22 primary health care centers, which provide one million consultations over each 52 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:08,200 three-month period. 53 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,433 Again, I cannot understand how keeping people healthy is Band-Aid. 54 00:03:13,866 --> 00:03:16,900 The reason is as -- because of political failure. 55 00:03:16,900 --> 00:03:21,900 What the refugees need is a solution, a just solution, in the form of a country they can 56 00:03:23,833 --> 00:03:25,933 call their own. 57 00:03:25,933 --> 00:03:29,233 NICK SCHIFRIN: And, in Gaza -- the U.N. has warned that Gaza would be unlivable by 2020, 58 00:03:29,233 --> 00:03:34,233 52 percent unemployment, 67 percent youth unemployment, 13 hours of power cuts every 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:37,700 day. 60 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:38,966 It seems like the trends are going in the wrong direction. 61 00:03:38,966 --> 00:03:41,000 How do those get fixed? 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,833 MATTHIAS SCHMALE: It's already unlivable for the 52 percent who are unemployed. 63 00:03:44,833 --> 00:03:49,833 What's livable about living in a place that's cut off from the rest of the world, with little 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,633 or no chance to find a decent job? 65 00:03:53,633 --> 00:03:55,766 Now, how can this be fixed? 66 00:03:55,766 --> 00:04:00,333 I think one clear thing that needs to happen is to ease or lift the blockade. 67 00:04:00,333 --> 00:04:05,300 You cannot have a thriving economy in a place of two million people that is cut off from 68 00:04:06,033 --> 00:04:08,066 the rest of the world. 69 00:04:08,066 --> 00:04:11,666 And, of course, there also needs to be good governance inside Gaza in terms of those people 70 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:13,766 who control Gaza. 71 00:04:13,766 --> 00:04:15,833 NICK SCHIFRIN: Can Hamas provide good governance? 72 00:04:15,833 --> 00:04:19,966 MATTHIAS SCHMALE: Well, I think their track record over the last 10 years or so is a dismal 73 00:04:19,966 --> 00:04:21,466 one. 74 00:04:21,466 --> 00:04:23,700 So there are many people who are skeptical that they can do so. 75 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:28,700 And I'm one of those, who on behalf of the United Nations, says we need prepare for and 76 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:32,066 carry out decent elections. 77 00:04:32,066 --> 00:04:34,900 There were elections 15 years ago or so. 78 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:39,900 And it's really over time that elections happen and that proper alternatives are presented 79 00:04:41,733 --> 00:04:43,800 for people to vote on. 80 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,233 NICK SCHIFRIN: Gwyn Lewis, there is, of course, a distinction, not only between Gaza and West 81 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,700 Bank, but also between the U.S. and Israel. 82 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:55,333 The U.S. -- the Trump administration, I should say, has defunded UNRWA. 83 00:04:55,333 --> 00:05:00,366 Israel, though, has long -- not necessarily called for UNRWA's dissolution, but has specific 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,966 criticisms of UNRWA, says that UNRWA politicizes the conflict. 85 00:05:05,966 --> 00:05:10,366 You have heard these criticisms, especially the textbooks that are in schools. 86 00:05:10,366 --> 00:05:15,366 And while I was in Gaza during the war in 2014, seen weapons stored in UNRWA facilities. 87 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:19,433 So what's your response to the Israeli criticisms of the organization? 88 00:05:19,433 --> 00:05:24,433 GWYN LEWIS: The first one, the curricula is really -- the U.N. generally, not just UNRWA, 89 00:05:26,066 --> 00:05:28,800 all of the U.N. uses the textbooks of the country of origin. 90 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,466 It's good practice. 91 00:05:30,466 --> 00:05:33,300 So the textbooks that we use are the Palestinian Authority textbooks. 92 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:35,300 Now, we don't just use them. 93 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:38,666 We monitor them and we review them before we use them in the classroom. 94 00:05:38,666 --> 00:05:43,400 So when we find problematic materials in our textbooks, we develop other materials to address 95 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,366 them, or we -- we also train our teachers on how best to approach the subjects, so the 96 00:05:48,366 --> 00:05:50,633 children are taught in a constructive way. 97 00:05:50,633 --> 00:05:53,900 The other issues, when there have been issues with our schools -- and there have been a 98 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:58,900 couple of occasions where we have found arms in the schools -- it was UNRWA who flagged 99 00:05:59,866 --> 00:06:01,900 it with the Israeli authorities. 100 00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:05,333 It was UNRWA who asked Hamas to remove the weapons from our schools. 101 00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:10,333 NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, I'm wondering how your reception has been here in Washington. 102 00:06:12,266 --> 00:06:14,900 What are the U.S. officials saying to you, and what are you asking of them? 103 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:19,700 MATTHIAS SCHMALE: We didn't come here thinking we will get checks written anytime soon. 104 00:06:19,700 --> 00:06:22,933 But we see it as important to maintain this relationship. 105 00:06:22,933 --> 00:06:27,933 The United States is -- consists of many people, and we shouldn't just be led by those people 106 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,033 who are currently running the White House. 107 00:06:33,033 --> 00:06:37,966 And we have met many people who are very sympathetic to the plight of Palestine refugees. 108 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:43,933 And so, yes, the message I will give them is one of cautious optimism that, at one point, 109 00:06:45,266 --> 00:06:47,233 we may be able to rebuild this partnership. 110 00:06:47,233 --> 00:06:51,666 NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, Gwyn Lewis of UNRWA from Gaza and the West Bank, thank 111 00:06:52,266 --> 00:06:53,066 you very much. 112 00:06:53,066 --> 00:06:54,000 GWYN LEWIS: Thank you. 113 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:54,133 MATTHIAS SCHMALE: Thank you.