WEBVTT 00:02.066 --> 00:04.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: This weekend, the White House unveiled the first half of its Israeli-Palestinian 00:04.533 --> 00:08.733 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% peace plan, a $50 billion economic blueprint designed to double Palestinian GDP and create 00:10.366 --> 00:14.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% a million jobs, while not addressing, for now, their political future. 00:14.133 --> 00:18.733 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% The report's author, senior adviser and presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner, compared it to the 00:18.733 --> 00:22.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Marshall Plan that revitalized Western Europe after World War II. 00:22.000 --> 00:24.033 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% JARED KUSHNER, Senior Presidential Adviser: This is a similar notion, where you're not 00:24.033 --> 00:26.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% just giving people a fish, like we have been doing here for a long time. 00:26.966 --> 00:30.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You're teaching them to fish, and then you're buying them fishing rods and you're helping 00:30.033 --> 00:32.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% them become something that will be much more sustainable. 00:32.700 --> 00:37.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: The response among Palestinians wasn't enthusiastic. 00:37.366 --> 00:40.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Protesters demonstrated across multiple cities. 00:40.166 --> 00:44.566 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% And Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Palestinians want a political solution 00:44.566 --> 00:48.566 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% first, even if he admitted they also need economic support. 00:48.566 --> 00:52.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Today, more than a million Palestinian refugees live in absolute poverty. 00:52.933 --> 00:57.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% More than 250,000 are unable to meet basic food needs. 00:57.200 --> 01:01.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The sole agency dedicated to assist them is the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, known as 01:01.700 --> 01:03.200 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% UNRWA. 01:03.200 --> 01:06.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The Trump administration has cut all economic support to UNRWA. 01:06.233 --> 01:11.233 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Before the plan's release, I spoke to Matthias Schmale, UNRWA's Gaza director, and Gwyn Lewis, 01:13.200 --> 01:15.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% UNRWA's West Bank director, and asked why the Palestinian response, even before the 01:15.333 --> 01:17.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% plan was made public, was so negative. 01:17.466 --> 01:19.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% GWYN LEWIS, UNRWA Operations Director, West Bank: Well, I don't think any Palestinian 01:19.633 --> 01:24.500 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% would argue with the fact that West Bank and Gaza need economic development and economic 01:24.500 --> 01:25.966 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% support. 01:25.966 --> 01:28.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think that's something that everybody agrees with. 01:28.000 --> 01:32.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think what the Palestinian community are saying to me -- and the refugees in particular, 01:32.400 --> 01:37.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% because that's whom we work with -- Is that they want to be part of the discussion. 01:37.000 --> 01:40.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% They don't want somebody to come in and decide for them on their economic future. 01:40.600 --> 01:45.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The challenge of just looking at the economics - - and this is what the Palestinian Authority 01:45.266 --> 01:50.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% has been saying, I think, very, very publicly - - is, at what cost? 01:52.200 --> 01:55.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And if there's not going to be any political agreement, economic investment is not going 01:55.866 --> 01:57.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% to suffice. 01:57.933 --> 02:02.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% There is a real interest in economic investment, but there needs to be a political process 02:02.866 --> 02:04.700 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% as well. 02:04.700 --> 02:05.633 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: And it has to happen simultaneously, you think? 02:05.633 --> 02:07.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% GWYN LEWIS: Absolutely, yes. 02:07.700 --> 02:11.000 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, let me turn to you and ask about Jason Greenblatt's criticism 02:11.000 --> 02:12.533 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% of the agency. 02:12.533 --> 02:16.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Recently, he was speaking to the U.N. Security Council. 02:16.000 --> 02:18.000 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And this is what he had to say: 02:18.000 --> 02:19.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% JASON GREENBLATT, U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East: UNRWA is a Band-Aid. 02:19.933 --> 02:24.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And the Palestinians who deserve -- who use its services deserve better, much better. 02:26.233 --> 02:29.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We do not have to wait until a comprehensive solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 02:29.033 --> 02:31.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% is in place to address that fact. 02:31.433 --> 02:33.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% NICK SCHIFRIN: Is UNRWA a Band-Aid? 02:33.766 --> 02:38.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Is there an economic plan that can replace UNRWA, as these U.S. officials are saying? 02:38.366 --> 02:41.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MATTHIAS SCHMALE, UNRWA Operations Director, Gaza: No, UNRWA is not a Band-Aid. 02:41.266 --> 02:45.366 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% What we do in Gaza, where I work, is provide basic education. 02:45.366 --> 02:50.366 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% We run 274 schools, which had 280,000 students in them in the school year that has just finished. 02:53.533 --> 02:58.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I fail to see how providing basic education to very marginalized people is Band-Aid. 03:00.500 --> 03:05.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We run 22 primary health care centers, which provide one million consultations over each 03:06.300 --> 03:08.200 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% three-month period. 03:08.200 --> 03:12.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Again, I cannot understand how keeping people healthy is Band-Aid. 03:13.866 --> 03:16.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The reason is as -- because of political failure. 03:16.900 --> 03:21.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% What the refugees need is a solution, a just solution, in the form of a country they can 03:23.833 --> 03:25.933 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% call their own. 03:25.933 --> 03:29.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: And, in Gaza -- the U.N. has warned that Gaza would be unlivable by 2020, 03:29.233 --> 03:34.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% 52 percent unemployment, 67 percent youth unemployment, 13 hours of power cuts every 03:36.200 --> 03:37.700 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% day. 03:37.700 --> 03:38.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% It seems like the trends are going in the wrong direction. 03:38.966 --> 03:41.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% How do those get fixed? 03:41.000 --> 03:44.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MATTHIAS SCHMALE: It's already unlivable for the 52 percent who are unemployed. 03:44.833 --> 03:49.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% What's livable about living in a place that's cut off from the rest of the world, with little 03:51.000 --> 03:53.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% or no chance to find a decent job? 03:53.633 --> 03:55.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Now, how can this be fixed? 03:55.766 --> 04:00.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think one clear thing that needs to happen is to ease or lift the blockade. 04:00.333 --> 04:05.300 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% You cannot have a thriving economy in a place of two million people that is cut off from 04:06.033 --> 04:08.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% the rest of the world. 04:08.066 --> 04:11.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And, of course, there also needs to be good governance inside Gaza in terms of those people 04:12.500 --> 04:13.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% who control Gaza. 04:13.766 --> 04:15.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% NICK SCHIFRIN: Can Hamas provide good governance? 04:15.833 --> 04:19.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MATTHIAS SCHMALE: Well, I think their track record over the last 10 years or so is a dismal 04:19.966 --> 04:21.466 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% one. 04:21.466 --> 04:23.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% So there are many people who are skeptical that they can do so. 04:23.700 --> 04:28.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I'm one of those, who on behalf of the United Nations, says we need prepare for and 04:29.700 --> 04:32.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% carry out decent elections. 04:32.066 --> 04:34.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% There were elections 15 years ago or so. 04:34.900 --> 04:39.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And it's really over time that elections happen and that proper alternatives are presented 04:41.733 --> 04:43.800 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for people to vote on. 04:43.800 --> 04:48.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: Gwyn Lewis, there is, of course, a distinction, not only between Gaza and West 04:49.400 --> 04:51.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Bank, but also between the U.S. and Israel. 04:51.700 --> 04:55.333 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% The U.S. -- the Trump administration, I should say, has defunded UNRWA. 04:55.333 --> 05:00.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Israel, though, has long -- not necessarily called for UNRWA's dissolution, but has specific 05:01.800 --> 05:05.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% criticisms of UNRWA, says that UNRWA politicizes the conflict. 05:05.966 --> 05:10.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% You have heard these criticisms, especially the textbooks that are in schools. 05:10.366 --> 05:15.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And while I was in Gaza during the war in 2014, seen weapons stored in UNRWA facilities. 05:17.300 --> 05:19.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So what's your response to the Israeli criticisms of the organization? 05:19.433 --> 05:24.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% GWYN LEWIS: The first one, the curricula is really -- the U.N. generally, not just UNRWA, 05:26.066 --> 05:28.800 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% all of the U.N. uses the textbooks of the country of origin. 05:28.800 --> 05:30.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's good practice. 05:30.466 --> 05:33.300 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% So the textbooks that we use are the Palestinian Authority textbooks. 05:33.300 --> 05:35.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% Now, we don't just use them. 05:35.300 --> 05:38.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We monitor them and we review them before we use them in the classroom. 05:38.666 --> 05:43.400 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% So when we find problematic materials in our textbooks, we develop other materials to address 05:43.400 --> 05:48.366 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% them, or we -- we also train our teachers on how best to approach the subjects, so the 05:48.366 --> 05:50.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% children are taught in a constructive way. 05:50.633 --> 05:53.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The other issues, when there have been issues with our schools -- and there have been a 05:53.900 --> 05:58.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% couple of occasions where we have found arms in the schools -- it was UNRWA who flagged 05:59.866 --> 06:01.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% it with the Israeli authorities. 06:01.900 --> 06:05.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% It was UNRWA who asked Hamas to remove the weapons from our schools. 06:05.333 --> 06:10.333 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, I'm wondering how your reception has been here in Washington. 06:12.266 --> 06:14.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% What are the U.S. officials saying to you, and what are you asking of them? 06:14.900 --> 06:19.700 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% MATTHIAS SCHMALE: We didn't come here thinking we will get checks written anytime soon. 06:19.700 --> 06:22.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% But we see it as important to maintain this relationship. 06:22.933 --> 06:27.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The United States is -- consists of many people, and we shouldn't just be led by those people 06:31.000 --> 06:33.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% who are currently running the White House. 06:33.033 --> 06:37.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And we have met many people who are very sympathetic to the plight of Palestine refugees. 06:39.900 --> 06:43.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And so, yes, the message I will give them is one of cautious optimism that, at one point, 06:45.266 --> 06:47.233 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% we may be able to rebuild this partnership. 06:47.233 --> 06:51.666 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% NICK SCHIFRIN: Matthias Schmale, Gwyn Lewis of UNRWA from Gaza and the West Bank, thank 06:52.266 --> 06:53.066 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% you very much. 06:53.066 --> 06:54.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% GWYN LEWIS: Thank you. 06:54.000 --> 06:54.133 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% MATTHIAS SCHMALE: Thank you.