WEBVTT 00:01.900 --> 00:04.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Recent history suggests new gun reforms are more likely to emerge 00:04.300 --> 00:07.433 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% out of statehouses, rather than Washington, D.C. 00:07.433 --> 00:09.366 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Over the coming days, we will explore some 00:09.366 --> 00:13.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of the proposed and recently enacted policy experiments across the states. 00:13.500 --> 00:16.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% William Brangham begins our coverage with an examination 00:16.400 --> 00:20.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of extreme risk prevention orders, more commonly known as red flag laws. 00:20.866 --> 00:25.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The measures, which are in use in 19 states, allow guns to be temporarily 00:25.200 --> 00:30.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% seized if family or law enforcement believes someone is a risk to themselves or to others. 00:32.166 --> 00:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: On New Year's Eve four years ago, a sheriff's deputy was shot 00:37.333 --> 00:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and killed in a suburb south of Denver by a man suffering serious mental distress. 00:42.033 --> 00:45.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That killing prompted a Republican state representative to introduce a red flag law 00:45.466 --> 00:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in the Colorado legislature. But that lawmaker then came under attack from a conservative 00:50.266 --> 00:55.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% gun rights group. His law didn't pass, and the representative lost his next election. 00:56.500 --> 00:58.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% His name is Cole Wist. He's now a lawyer in private practice. 00:58.966 --> 01:00.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And he joins me now from Colorado. 01:02.100 --> 01:03.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Cole, great to have you on the "NewsHour." 01:05.400 --> 01:09.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Just playing off this example that motivated you to introduce this bill, 01:09.033 --> 01:14.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can you help us understand how your law would have worked? Who contacts the authorities? Who 01:16.166 --> 01:19.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% judges this? Who makes the decision that it's OK that someone should have their guns taken? 01:19.833 --> 01:23.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% FMR. STATE REP. COLE WIST (R-CO): Well, good evening, William. It's great to be with you. 01:23.733 --> 01:28.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I will talk about how this would have played out under the 2018 bill that I introduced. And 01:31.300 --> 01:34.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that is that the family members or law enforcement could apply for an extreme risk protection order. 01:38.700 --> 01:43.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And they would swear out an affidavit, submit that to a judge. And if the judge agreed that it met 01:45.933 --> 01:50.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a threshold determination that the individual posed a risk to himself or herself or others, 01:52.966 --> 01:56.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% then the judge could issue a temporary order 01:56.100 --> 01:59.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that would allow law enforcement to remove firearms from that individual. 02:01.933 --> 02:05.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Under our bill in 2018, there was a three-day period that the court would then hear whether or 02:08.533 --> 02:13.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% not that order would be made permanent. And we had a very high level of due process that was required 02:16.066 --> 02:20.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to be met by the movement, by the movement, or the person that was seeking the protective order. 02:21.433 --> 02:24.533 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And under our bill, the person seeking to remove 02:24.533 --> 02:27.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% those firearms would have to -- would have had to have proven 02:27.900 --> 02:32.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% beyond a reasonable doubt that that individual posed a risk to themselves or others, and that 02:34.900 --> 02:38.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% removal of weapons from that person's possession was necessary to accomplish those means. 02:39.900 --> 02:42.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% There then would have been an opportunity, if the order was granted, 02:42.800 --> 02:47.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% six months later to then consider whether or not that order should be renewed 02:47.700 --> 02:51.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% or dissolved, and the person could receive their firearms back. 02:51.866 --> 02:56.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In the version of the bill that passed in 2019, those periods were extended quite a bit, 02:56.433 --> 03:01.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in fact, doubled to 364 days, if an ERPO is entered against someone. 03:02.766 --> 03:04.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So you were a Republican legislator, 03:06.866 --> 03:09.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and yet this conservative gun rights group 03:09.500 --> 03:13.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% came after you. They called you a gun grabber. They called you Cole the mole. 03:16.033 --> 03:19.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And they passed out flyers attacking you. How did that sit with you, having this kind of blowback? 03:19.333 --> 03:24.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% FMR. STATE REP. COLE WIST: Well, it strikes me that we miss the mark when we talk about 03:26.333 --> 03:30.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% mass shootings or incidents like the one that motivated me to sponsor this legislation. 03:32.466 --> 03:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that is, these are matters of public safety. And in all other cases, 03:36.633 --> 03:41.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and if you look at cases of domestic terrorism, in the mass shootings that we have seen in the 03:41.100 --> 03:45.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% United States over just the last week, these are domestic terrorist incidents. 03:47.766 --> 03:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And when we look at domestic terrorism, our government has not been hesitant 03:51.200 --> 03:56.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to make sure that we're doing everything that we can, in a proactive fashion to make sure that we 03:58.833 --> 04:02.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% protect public safety. But when you enter the word gun in this conversation, it freezes the parties. 04:05.033 --> 04:10.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, in my particular circumstance, I guess, if you could identify a sin that I 04:12.533 --> 04:15.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% committed as a legislator, and that is having the willingness to talk to folks on the other side 04:18.066 --> 04:21.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% across the political spectrum about solutions that we can put into place to protect constitutional 04:23.333 --> 04:28.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rights, to make the burden of proof very, very high for someone seeking to deprive 04:28.066 --> 04:33.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% someone of the possession of a weapon, and yet, at the same time, recognizing that there is an 04:35.033 --> 04:38.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% important public safety concern here that's not being addressed by our current laws. 04:40.366 --> 04:42.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And that's the reason I was motivated to introduce this piece of legislation. 04:42.400 --> 04:47.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Given your experience, as someone who tried to reach across the aisle 04:49.333 --> 04:51.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and introduce something that, again, to many people listening to, you would think, 04:51.666 --> 04:56.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that seems like a reasonable, sensible approach, does that give you a sense 04:56.066 --> 04:58.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of pessimism that anything is going to come out at the national level? 04:58.933 --> 05:03.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Because leaders here in Washington, D.C., right now are trying to do exactly what you did, 05:03.500 --> 05:07.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to reach across the aisle to try to figure out, how can we stop these tragedies from occurring? 05:09.600 --> 05:11.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Given your experience, do you think that there's going to be any hope here? 05:11.500 --> 05:14.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. STATE REP. COLE WIST: William, I'm always hopeful. 05:14.866 --> 05:19.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I will give us an example an exchange I saw on Twitter last night between 05:21.666 --> 05:25.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a radio show host and Senator Cornyn from Texas. And Senator Cornyn, in the past few days, 05:27.933 --> 05:31.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% has expressed some willingness and openness to talking to folks about expanded background checks, 05:33.533 --> 05:38.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% red flag laws, things that we can do to try to protect public safety. 05:38.133 --> 05:43.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He was called out for those efforts last night, and he immediately retreated back 05:45.100 --> 05:48.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to his corner and said: No, I'm not going to introduce anything that relates to guns. 05:48.066 --> 05:53.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, again, if we really talked about this as a public safety issue, as trying to address 05:55.033 --> 05:59.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% domestic terrorism, and not focusing on the gun issue, then I think we would make a whole 06:02.166 --> 06:06.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% lot more progress. But, unfortunately, when political tensions become high, as they are, 06:08.300 --> 06:12.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% particularly with this issue, folks retreat to their comfortable corners. 06:12.066 --> 06:17.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And whenever folks are in their corners, they're not talking to folks across the political spectrum 06:19.033 --> 06:20.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and, frankly, they're not solving problems that we need to have solved. 06:20.566 --> 06:23.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In just the last few seconds that we have, 06:23.033 --> 06:26.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% do you have -- do you feel strongly that red flag laws 06:28.100 --> 06:31.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% should be passed nationally? Do they really work to prevent these cases, these tragedies? 06:33.233 --> 06:36.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% FMR. STATE REP. COLE WIST: Well, we have red flag laws in 19 states. 06:36.466 --> 06:41.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And one of the first states to pass one of these laws was Indiana. 06:42.900 --> 06:45.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And I don't think anyone would suggest that Indiana 06:47.166 --> 06:50.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is a blue state, by any means. But I think they paved the way and showed that you can 06:52.733 --> 06:57.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% do this in a way that protects constitutional rights and still protects public safety. 07:00.500 --> 07:04.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% In the couple of years that Colorado has passed this law, there's been a lot of analysis done in 07:04.533 --> 07:09.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% terms of whether or not the laws have been abused or whether or not this law has been abused. And 07:09.100 --> 07:14.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I think, if you look at the data, it shows that, to the extent that folks have sought these orders 07:17.266 --> 07:22.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% with frivolous facts or without a legal basis, those have been denied. 07:22.066 --> 07:24.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So, the law is working. The law can function. 07:24.700 --> 07:29.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Former Colorado state legislator Cole Wist, thank you so much for joining us. 07:31.133 --> 07:31.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% FMR. STATE REP. COLE WIST: Thank you. My pleasure.