WEBVTT 00:01.933 --> 00:04.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: As we reported, the man who attacked House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband, 00:04.366 --> 00:09.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Paul, in his home on Friday is facing federal criminal charges. 00:09.333 --> 00:12.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The suspect has been charged with one count of assault of 00:12.466 --> 00:17.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the immediate family member of a U.S. official, in this case, Speaker Pelosi, 00:17.033 --> 00:22.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in retaliation for that official's duties and one count of attempted kidnapping of a U.S. official. 00:24.433 --> 00:28.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, that's in addition to a host of charges filed locally by the San Francisco district attorney, 00:30.700 --> 00:34.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% including attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and elder abuse. 00:35.933 --> 00:38.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Lisa Desjardins has an update on what we know and on the 00:38.600 --> 00:41.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% flood of disinformation being spread on the right. 00:41.300 --> 00:46.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Out of San Francisco, alarming details of the assault on Speaker Pelosi's family. 00:48.266 --> 00:52.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In an affidavit, FBI agents testify that suspect David DePape brought zip ties, 00:54.433 --> 00:58.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% tape and rope with him, and that his plan was to tie up Speaker Pelosi and 01:00.433 --> 01:03.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% break her kneecaps if she didn't answer questions the way he wanted. Further, 01:03.600 --> 01:08.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the filing says he broke a glass panel to enter her home and woke up Paul Pelosi in his bed. 01:10.466 --> 01:14.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Officers say DePape compared himself to the founding fathers and said he 01:14.033 --> 01:18.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was fighting Pelosi as the leader of the Democrats. In the lead-up to the attack, 01:19.766 --> 01:22.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DePape trafficked in right-wing conspiracies online, including 01:22.900 --> 01:27.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% posts related to QAnon and attacking the legitimacy of the 2020 election. 01:28.733 --> 01:32.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Now powerful figures like Elon Musk, the new owner of Twitter, 01:32.333 --> 01:37.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% are adding new layers of untethered conspiracy targeting Pelosi. This weekend, Musk tweeted: 01:39.366 --> 01:43.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% "There's a tiny possibility there might be more to this story than meets the eye." 01:43.766 --> 01:48.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% He later deleted that post, but, in it, Musk link to a discredited right-wing article theorizing, 01:50.800 --> 01:55.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% with no evidence, that the assault was actually a drunk dispute with a male sex worker. That 01:57.166 --> 02:00.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% baseless conspiracy was echoed by Republican House member Representative Clay Higgins of 02:00.766 --> 02:05.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Louisiana in a barely veiled tweet about drugs and nudity, which he later deleted. 02:07.500 --> 02:12.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Texas Senator Ted Cruz proclaimed as truth a conspiracy-raising post saying: 02:14.033 --> 02:16.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% "No one will ever know what happened in the attack, but it was not right-wing violence." 02:16.533 --> 02:18.166 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And there was this. 02:18.166 --> 02:20.200 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (GUNSHOTS) 02:20.200 --> 02:23.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Before the attack, Republican Congressman Tom Emmer had 02:25.833 --> 02:28.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% tweeted video of himself at a firing range, and he had tweeted -- quote -- "Let's fire Pelosi." 02:30.333 --> 02:32.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Emmer, who heads the Republican efforts to retake the House, 02:32.866 --> 02:37.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% kept that video and tweet up even after the attack. And while he condemned the violence, 02:39.300 --> 02:42.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Emmer defended his original message yesterday to CBS News. 02:42.233 --> 02:44.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% MARGARET BRENNAN, Host, "Face The Nation": You're shooting a gun. Our viewers just saw it. 02:44.733 --> 02:46.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): Yeah, right. 02:46.233 --> 02:48.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% MARGARET BRENNAN: Hashtag #FirePelosi, with a weapon. 02:48.233 --> 02:49.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% REP. TOM EMMER: Exercising our Second Amendment rights, having fun... 02:49.500 --> 02:51.466 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% MARGARET BRENNAN: That's not a debate about... 02:51.466 --> 02:53.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Meantime, the top House Republican in the country, 02:53.433 --> 02:56.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Kevin McCarthy, did condemn the attack outright on FOX News this weekend. 02:56.866 --> 02:59.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Let me be perfectly clear. Violence or threat 02:59.366 --> 03:03.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of violence has no place in our society. And what happened to Paul Pelosi is wrong. 03:03.566 --> 03:06.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: But he has not yet sent out a single tweet or 03:06.400 --> 03:08.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% issued a public written statement on the assault. 03:08.866 --> 03:11.633 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% President Biden had this message for Republicans: 03:11.633 --> 03:16.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: The talk has to stop. That's the problem. That's 03:16.366 --> 03:21.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the problem. You can't just say, I feel badly about the violence and we condemn 03:23.300 --> 03:26.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it. Condemn what produces the violence. And this talk produces the violence. 03:26.366 --> 03:30.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LISA DESJARDINS: Just over a week until the election, tension and alarm remain high. 03:30.300 --> 03:33.000 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins. 03:33.000 --> 03:38.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: For more on all this, I'm joined by an expert in online misinformation, 03:40.500 --> 03:43.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the research director at Harvard's Shorenstein Center, Joan Donovan. She also is author of the 03:45.866 --> 03:50.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% new book "Meme Wars: The Untold Story of the Online Battles Upending Democracy in America." 03:51.933 --> 03:56.466 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Joan Donovan, welcome back to the "NewsHour." Thank you so much. 03:56.466 --> 04:01.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% You have looked at what this man DePape was posting online. 04:01.233 --> 04:05.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% What struck you about it? And how far from reality was it -- is it? 04:07.033 --> 04:09.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOAN DONOVAN, Harvard Kennedy Shorenstein Center: So, it's very far from reality, 04:09.133 --> 04:12.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but is not unlike much of the content that we watch as researchers of the Internet. 04:14.600 --> 04:18.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So he seems to be progressing along in a pattern with his blog posts that 04:20.666 --> 04:24.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% follows essentially most of the popular conspiracies that are proliferating across 04:26.633 --> 04:30.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% social media. And what's unique about a situation like this is, 04:30.600 --> 04:35.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% someone like him does believe that he is spreading true and correct information. 04:37.533 --> 04:41.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He believes that he's getting the real news and doing his own research. But 04:43.100 --> 04:46.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's unfortunate that he was very, very far down rabbit holes on the Internet, 04:48.333 --> 04:51.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% including stuff about QAnon, with, in particular, that -- a conspiracy theory 04:54.100 --> 04:59.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that names Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats as people that need to be brought to justice. 05:03.466 --> 05:08.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And what's an example of something that is central to that set of beliefs? 05:10.866 --> 05:13.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JOAN DONOVAN: Essentially, without making it seem too absurd, they draw on a theory of the 05:17.866 --> 05:22.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% deep state, and essentially thinking that Trump was out there trying to govern as best he could, 05:26.133 --> 05:31.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but the government is really run by this shadowy group of cabal-type globalists. 05:33.500 --> 05:38.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So these are all dog whistles, of course, for antisemitism. And, in that, they believed -- even 05:41.566 --> 05:46.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for back with drain the swamp, they believed that Trump was almost a Christ-like figure that 05:50.433 --> 05:55.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was going to rid the government, the U.S. government, of these deep state figures, 05:57.466 --> 06:02.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton playing central roles in this conspiracy theory. 06:03.966 --> 06:07.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: And we know this kind of material is now more widely spread than ever. 06:09.800 --> 06:12.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What is the evidence that you have of the number of people who are willing 06:14.400 --> 06:18.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to turn this into some kind of action against the people here? 06:18.400 --> 06:23.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% JOAN DONOVAN: So, at the Shorenstein Center, we have been researching this concept that we're 06:25.366 --> 06:27.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really trying to get our heads around, which we're calling network incitement. 06:27.466 --> 06:32.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So we're looking at well, to what degree are people being mobilized to do something 06:33.766 --> 06:36.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% different with their time and energy and politics? 06:36.100 --> 06:41.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so we have looked at a lot of the affidavits and the statements made by those arrested during 06:43.666 --> 06:48.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the January 6 riots. And it's very clear that people feel as if the democracy is being lost, 06:51.166 --> 06:56.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that there is no legal recourse, and that only they can stop what's coming. 07:00.100 --> 07:05.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so, unfortunately, the Internet is paradoxical, in the sense that it does 07:07.066 --> 07:10.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% mobilize people. We know that from back during Occupy and the Indignados Movement in Spain and 07:13.166 --> 07:17.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% whatnot. Like, we don't have to prove that the Internet convinces people to join mass movements. 07:19.866 --> 07:24.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What's hard about this is that people are being mobilized by lies and disinformation. 07:26.066 --> 07:28.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And they believe it. And it's coming straight from some of our political 07:28.800 --> 07:33.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% leaders and even from some of the world's richest or most well-connected celebrities. 07:36.266 --> 07:38.000 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: As in who? 07:38.000 --> 07:41.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JOAN DONOVAN: Elon Musk has really stepped in it here. 07:41.333 --> 07:46.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And we're a few days out from major midterm elections for -- Brazil just have their 07:48.300 --> 07:52.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% elections. And we have the richest man in the world in control of the most important, 07:54.100 --> 07:59.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% influential network platform that the Internet has really ever seen. And he 08:01.900 --> 08:06.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is setting media narratives in ways that are, at best, unhelpful and, at worst, really damaging. 08:09.033 --> 08:14.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JUDY WOODRUFF: Is there a -- do you see anything in history that tells you there is a way out of 08:16.366 --> 08:21.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% this, that this kind of spreading of lies can be -- can be handled, can be done away with? 08:26.033 --> 08:28.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JOAN DONOVAN: There's a few things that can be done. 08:28.100 --> 08:32.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But I do consider our journalists the front line of the information war. And so I would 08:34.400 --> 08:38.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% suggest that journalists keep pumping out timely, accurate local knowledge. And so 08:40.600 --> 08:44.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% keep making sure that people know how to get to the polls, they know who's 08:44.033 --> 08:48.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% running in local elections, they know what platforms the politicians are standing on. 08:48.300 --> 08:53.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% If they are witness to political disinformation online, write a story 08:55.200 --> 08:59.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% about it, but make sure you show the reader and the audience how you gathered the news, 09:01.366 --> 09:05.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% so make them believe it, so that you can counter or pre-bunk some of these narratives. 09:06.466 --> 09:08.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And then, lastly, I think, for individuals, 09:08.500 --> 09:12.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you really have to stop and say, "WAIT," which should stand for: Why am I tweeting? 09:12.833 --> 09:17.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And if you ask yourself that and you take a step back and think 09:17.200 --> 09:21.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about if it's playing on your emotions or confirmation bias, 09:21.033 --> 09:25.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just you want to make sure you're dealing with reputable sources at this stage. 09:25.466 --> 09:28.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, Joan Donovan, I know you will continue to follow 09:28.800 --> 09:31.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% this. We're certainly going to continue to report on it. 09:31.133 --> 09:35.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Thank you very much, Joan Donovan, at the Shorenstein Center at Harvard. 09:35.200 --> 09:36.566 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JOAN DONOVAN: Thank you.