JUDY WOODRUFF: The first public
opinion polling is out since
the government shutdown began

24 days ago.

To break it down for us and
to discuss several other big
developments, I'm joined by our

Politics Monday duo.

That's Amy Walter of The
Cook Political Report
and Tamara Keith of NPR.

Hello to you both.

And happy Monday.

So

let's talk about this poll.

We have, Tam, both The
Washington Post and
Quinnipiac University did
some polling, wrapping

up just in the last few days.

And as you can see, in the Post
poll, 53 percent of the public
are saying the president and

Republicans are to blame.

Only 29 percent
say the Democrats.

In the Quinnipiac, it's 56
percent blaming the president
and Republicans, 36 percent

the Democrats.

What does that say to us, if
anything, about where the chips
are falling after this shutdown

is in its 24th day?

TAMARA KEITH, National Public
Radio: I think it's not
entirely surprising that this is

where the numbers are.

It somewhat aligns with
the way people view the
president generally.

And, also, it's -- the president
before the shutdown started
said that he would be proud

to shut the government down
to get his border wall.

He has done absolutely nothing
to change that narrative.

The only thing that is possibly
working in his favor -- and
this is a small thing, it's

a sliver -- but under the hood
on the Quinnipiac poll, there
were a couple areas where the

public opinion has
shifted slightly.

Now, the minority of people
-- it's still a significant
minority, but more people now

support building a wall
along the Mexican border than
did a year-and-a-half ago.

It's still only 44 percent,
but that's up a fair bit
from a year-and-a-half ago.

Similarly, whether they
believe that undocumented
immigrants contribute to
crime more than American

citizens, which is not true,
but it was 22 percent in
April of 2018, and now it's up

to 29 percent.

So the president is shifting
at least a little bit, though
it's a small amount, of people

toward his viewpoint.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that
contradictory, Amy?

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political
Report: No, I think what's
happening is, Republicans are

shifting the most
on those issues.

But, overall, if you think
about what strategies going into
this debate would the president

like to see happen, right, what
would he like to come out of
this battle over the border

wall?

One, that the wall would
become more popular.

And while there has been some
shifting -- that's true -- and
the Washington Post poll showed

the same thing -- it still,
at best, gets about 42
percent approval rating.

So, the wall's not
really much more popular
than it's ever been.

You ask voters who is to blame,
they blame the president.

You would think that they --
if you were in the White House,
you want to see the blame

shifted to Democrats.

And even making the case about
whether this is a crisis, so
Quinnipiac also asked that

question about, do you
see this as a crisis?

And about 45 percent of voters
thought it was a crisis,
but even among those who saw

it as a crisis, only a third
of those said building a
border wall is going to fix it.

So, if your whole strategy
behind shutting the government
down was to make the wall more

popular, make the Democrats
take the blame, and get folks
concerned that there's a real

crisis on the border that
needs to be solved, he's
done none of those things.

TAMARA KEITH: Though
Republicans are still with us.

That's basically what he's got.

AMY WALTER: There's the -- yes.

TAMARA KEITH: But that's
kind of always what he's got.

AMY WALTER: That's right.

That's right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So,
we have seen that.

But let's talk about the
other big story we're
grappling with today.

And that is the disclosures that
the president, whether he was
taking information papers away

from the interpreters, questions
inside our - - the government
about whether the president

might have been working
for the Russians.

On top of everything else,
Tam, what are the political
repercussions of this?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes.

So the difference between these
articles coming out four months
ago and these articles coming

out today is now, in the House,
there are committees that
can act on it, can use their

subpoena power to try
to get this information.

They're exploring, the Democrats
are exploring how they might
be able to gain access to these

interpreters who were there
at the meetings with Putin.

Unclear whether they
will make it very far.

But this is now -- the ground
has shifted for the president.

Now these stories come out,
and he can go out on TV and
stand on the lawn and shout

over the helicopter and say, I
had nothing to do with Russia.

But then Democrats in Congress
in the House will follow up.

AMY WALTER: Right.

And they have already
noted as such.

Eliot Engel, the new chair of
the Foreign Affairs Committee,
saying, we're definitely

going to hold hearings looking
at the Putin-Trump relationship.

Adam Schiff this weekend
also tweeting, suggesting
that, yes, we're going
to try to get testimony

from this interpreter
in Helsinki.

So we have always had
three elements here.

One was the news reports and
leaks that had been part of
the sort of milieu here for a

long time about Russia and the
president and the investigation.

Mueller's always been there,
but we don't know anything
that's going on there.

So the new thing
now is Congress.

And that changes some of the
dynamics about this story.

It makes it harder to kind
of push it away by just
blaming it on the fake news.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What happened
in November matters.

It's changing the landscape.

So, very quickly, you
mentioned tweets, Amy.

The president was in the
White House this weekend.

There was a snowstorm
in Washington.

He did a lot of tweeting.

I'm not going to --
I wasn't going to use
the term tweetstorm.

TAMARA KEITH: But you can.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But I
could -- I will say that.

AMY WALTER: Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But what I want
to ask you about is some of
the language in the president's

- - I mean, singling out at one
point Nancy and crying Chuck
can end the shutdown in five

minutes.

"If Elizabeth Warren, often
referred to me by -- as
Pocahontas, did this commercial"

- - and he's referring to a
commercial she did around her
announcing that she's looking

at running for president.

AMY WALTER: Right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And
then, finally, he talks
about lying James Comey.

He's lumping together all the
stories that we're following,
lying James Comey, and on

and on.

I guess we're accustomed
to this -- these labels,
these names, but...

(CROSSTALK)

AMY WALTER: What seems different
now -- and this, I think,
started in the 2018 campaign

- - is that Democrats are no
longer taking the bait on these.

They don't feel any
need to respond to the
president doing this.

You saw every candidate
in the 2018 campaign
focus on health care.

They didn't react
to the president.

Elizabeth Warren in her
opening video never mentions
the president one time.

She's been on the road
now going to Iowa and
New Hampshire, doesn't
talk about the president,

unless she's asked
about the president.

She didn't respond
to this tweet.

And what the president wants
and what he's done in the past
with those tweets is to engage

in that battle, and then the
media's focus is all about,
right -- it's this side.

He says this.

This side says that.

And then we move off
the bigger topics.

(BREAK)

TAMARA KEITH: And
it becomes a feud.

AMY WALTER: That's right.

TAMARA KEITH: And if it's only
one-sided, it's less of a feud.

AMY WALTER: That's right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And each
one of these candidates
has to calculate how
they're going to deal

with -- the other thing
that's come up late today.

And that is the Senate majority
leader, Tam, Mitch McConnell,
has issued a statement, first

one to come from high levels
of Republicans in Congress
condemning what Steve King, the

Republican congressman from
Iowa, who got a lot of attention
last week when he had made

a statement about white
supremacist and, in essence, how
could something like this be

offensive?

Some Republicans have made mild
statements, but now to have
Mitch McConnell saying this

is unwelcome, unworthy, and he
said anybody - - if he doesn't
understand why white supremacy

is offensive, he should
find another line of work.

TAMARA KEITH: And in the
House, they're discussing
possible censure or
other ways of rebuking

the statements.

It's remarkable in some ways,
because Steve King has been
saying things like this for

years and years and
years and years.

And then he would just
sort of continue on.

This seems a little
different this time.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But Republicans
haven't been - - they have
said it's wrong, Amy, but they

haven't been full-throated
in their willingness to do...

(CROSSTALK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: The punish him.

AMY WALTER: Right.

I think he was seen
as sort of this fringe
character for so long.

Well, that's Steve King.

He says these crazy things,
but it doesn't matter.

Well, now it does, because
we talk a lot now about
white nationalists and
white supremacists.

And we saw the reality of
that in Charlottesville.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Exactly.

AMY WALTER: And this
is no longer just a
kooky fringe thing.

This is very, very serious and
should be taken very seriously.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy Walter,
Tamara Keith, thank you both.

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.

AMY WALTER: You're welcome.