1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: The first public opinion polling is out since the government shutdown began 2 00:00:04,266 --> 00:00:06,266 24 days ago. 3 00:00:06,266 --> 00:00:09,866 To break it down for us and to discuss several other big developments, I'm joined by our 4 00:00:09,866 --> 00:00:11,866 Politics Monday duo. 5 00:00:11,866 --> 00:00:16,866 That's Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report and Tamara Keith of NPR. 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,400 Hello to you both. 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,533 And happy Monday. 8 00:00:19,533 --> 00:00:20,533 So 9 00:00:20,533 --> 00:00:23,033 let's talk about this poll. 10 00:00:23,033 --> 00:00:26,533 We have, Tam, both The Washington Post and Quinnipiac University did some polling, wrapping 11 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,800 up just in the last few days. 12 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,800 And as you can see, in the Post poll, 53 percent of the public are saying the president and 13 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:36,966 Republicans are to blame. 14 00:00:36,966 --> 00:00:39,033 Only 29 percent say the Democrats. 15 00:00:39,033 --> 00:00:42,933 In the Quinnipiac, it's 56 percent blaming the president and Republicans, 36 percent 16 00:00:43,733 --> 00:00:45,833 the Democrats. 17 00:00:45,833 --> 00:00:49,800 What does that say to us, if anything, about where the chips are falling after this shutdown 18 00:00:50,566 --> 00:00:52,566 is in its 24th day? 19 00:00:52,566 --> 00:00:53,466 TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: I think it's not entirely surprising that this is 20 00:00:53,466 --> 00:00:55,166 where the numbers are. 21 00:00:55,166 --> 00:00:59,666 It somewhat aligns with the way people view the president generally. 22 00:00:59,666 --> 00:01:04,633 And, also, it's -- the president before the shutdown started said that he would be proud 23 00:01:06,033 --> 00:01:08,933 to shut the government down to get his border wall. 24 00:01:08,933 --> 00:01:13,100 He has done absolutely nothing to change that narrative. 25 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:18,100 The only thing that is possibly working in his favor -- and this is a small thing, it's 26 00:01:20,166 --> 00:01:23,533 a sliver -- but under the hood on the Quinnipiac poll, there were a couple areas where the 27 00:01:23,533 --> 00:01:25,900 public opinion has shifted slightly. 28 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:30,900 Now, the minority of people -- it's still a significant minority, but more people now 29 00:01:32,966 --> 00:01:37,500 support building a wall along the Mexican border than did a year-and-a-half ago. 30 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:42,500 It's still only 44 percent, but that's up a fair bit from a year-and-a-half ago. 31 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:48,800 Similarly, whether they believe that undocumented immigrants contribute to crime more than American 32 00:01:50,766 --> 00:01:55,533 citizens, which is not true, but it was 22 percent in April of 2018, and now it's up 33 00:01:58,100 --> 00:02:00,300 to 29 percent. 34 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:04,966 So the president is shifting at least a little bit, though it's a small amount, of people 35 00:02:05,866 --> 00:02:07,100 toward his viewpoint. 36 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:09,166 JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that contradictory, Amy? 37 00:02:09,166 --> 00:02:11,833 AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: No, I think what's happening is, Republicans are 38 00:02:11,833 --> 00:02:13,866 shifting the most on those issues. 39 00:02:13,866 --> 00:02:18,733 But, overall, if you think about what strategies going into this debate would the president 40 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,600 like to see happen, right, what would he like to come out of this battle over the border 41 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,800 wall? 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,866 One, that the wall would become more popular. 43 00:02:27,866 --> 00:02:30,966 And while there has been some shifting -- that's true -- and the Washington Post poll showed 44 00:02:30,966 --> 00:02:35,233 the same thing -- it still, at best, gets about 42 percent approval rating. 45 00:02:35,233 --> 00:02:39,500 So, the wall's not really much more popular than it's ever been. 46 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:42,600 You ask voters who is to blame, they blame the president. 47 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,633 You would think that they -- if you were in the White House, you want to see the blame 48 00:02:46,633 --> 00:02:48,700 shifted to Democrats. 49 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:51,866 And even making the case about whether this is a crisis, so Quinnipiac also asked that 50 00:02:51,866 --> 00:02:55,200 question about, do you see this as a crisis? 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,000 And about 45 percent of voters thought it was a crisis, but even among those who saw 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,933 it as a crisis, only a third of those said building a border wall is going to fix it. 53 00:03:03,933 --> 00:03:08,933 So, if your whole strategy behind shutting the government down was to make the wall more 54 00:03:10,966 --> 00:03:14,666 popular, make the Democrats take the blame, and get folks concerned that there's a real 55 00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:19,566 crisis on the border that needs to be solved, he's done none of those things. 56 00:03:19,566 --> 00:03:21,833 TAMARA KEITH: Though Republicans are still with us. 57 00:03:21,833 --> 00:03:22,833 That's basically what he's got. 58 00:03:22,833 --> 00:03:24,266 AMY WALTER: There's the -- yes. 59 00:03:24,266 --> 00:03:25,200 TAMARA KEITH: But that's kind of always what he's got. 60 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:25,866 AMY WALTER: That's right. 61 00:03:25,866 --> 00:03:27,133 That's right. 62 00:03:27,133 --> 00:03:28,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, we have seen that. 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,866 But let's talk about the other big story we're grappling with today. 64 00:03:30,866 --> 00:03:34,233 And that is the disclosures that the president, whether he was taking information papers away 65 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,333 from the interpreters, questions inside our - - the government about whether the president 66 00:03:39,333 --> 00:03:42,566 might have been working for the Russians. 67 00:03:42,566 --> 00:03:45,933 On top of everything else, Tam, what are the political repercussions of this? 68 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:48,033 TAMARA KEITH: Yes. 69 00:03:48,033 --> 00:03:51,433 So the difference between these articles coming out four months ago and these articles coming 70 00:03:51,433 --> 00:03:56,433 out today is now, in the House, there are committees that can act on it, can use their 71 00:03:58,533 --> 00:04:01,233 subpoena power to try to get this information. 72 00:04:01,233 --> 00:04:05,666 They're exploring, the Democrats are exploring how they might be able to gain access to these 73 00:04:05,666 --> 00:04:09,766 interpreters who were there at the meetings with Putin. 74 00:04:09,766 --> 00:04:12,633 Unclear whether they will make it very far. 75 00:04:12,633 --> 00:04:17,100 But this is now -- the ground has shifted for the president. 76 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:22,100 Now these stories come out, and he can go out on TV and stand on the lawn and shout 77 00:04:23,566 --> 00:04:26,533 over the helicopter and say, I had nothing to do with Russia. 78 00:04:26,533 --> 00:04:29,266 But then Democrats in Congress in the House will follow up. 79 00:04:29,266 --> 00:04:30,400 AMY WALTER: Right. 80 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,433 And they have already noted as such. 81 00:04:32,433 --> 00:04:35,933 Eliot Engel, the new chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, saying, we're definitely 82 00:04:35,933 --> 00:04:38,766 going to hold hearings looking at the Putin-Trump relationship. 83 00:04:38,766 --> 00:04:43,766 Adam Schiff this weekend also tweeting, suggesting that, yes, we're going to try to get testimony 84 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,200 from this interpreter in Helsinki. 85 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,266 So we have always had three elements here. 86 00:04:48,266 --> 00:04:52,766 One was the news reports and leaks that had been part of the sort of milieu here for a 87 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,133 long time about Russia and the president and the investigation. 88 00:04:57,133 --> 00:04:59,966 Mueller's always been there, but we don't know anything that's going on there. 89 00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:02,833 So the new thing now is Congress. 90 00:05:02,833 --> 00:05:06,733 And that changes some of the dynamics about this story. 91 00:05:06,733 --> 00:05:11,733 It makes it harder to kind of push it away by just blaming it on the fake news. 92 00:05:13,066 --> 00:05:14,133 JUDY WOODRUFF: What happened in November matters. 93 00:05:14,133 --> 00:05:15,400 It's changing the landscape. 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,600 So, very quickly, you mentioned tweets, Amy. 95 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,766 The president was in the White House this weekend. 96 00:05:19,766 --> 00:05:21,700 There was a snowstorm in Washington. 97 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:23,366 He did a lot of tweeting. 98 00:05:23,366 --> 00:05:25,666 I'm not going to -- I wasn't going to use the term tweetstorm. 99 00:05:25,666 --> 00:05:27,533 TAMARA KEITH: But you can. 100 00:05:27,533 --> 00:05:29,766 JUDY WOODRUFF: But I could -- I will say that. 101 00:05:29,766 --> 00:05:31,800 AMY WALTER: Yes. 102 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: But what I want to ask you about is some of the language in the president's 103 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,066 - - I mean, singling out at one point Nancy and crying Chuck can end the shutdown in five 104 00:05:39,966 --> 00:05:41,900 minutes. 105 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:45,533 "If Elizabeth Warren, often referred to me by -- as Pocahontas, did this commercial" 106 00:05:45,533 --> 00:05:48,900 - - and he's referring to a commercial she did around her announcing that she's looking 107 00:05:48,900 --> 00:05:50,533 at running for president. 108 00:05:50,533 --> 00:05:52,166 AMY WALTER: Right. 109 00:05:52,166 --> 00:05:54,233 JUDY WOODRUFF: And then, finally, he talks about lying James Comey. 110 00:05:54,233 --> 00:05:57,766 He's lumping together all the stories that we're following, lying James Comey, and on 111 00:05:58,233 --> 00:06:00,200 and on. 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,166 I guess we're accustomed to this -- these labels, these names, but... 113 00:06:05,766 --> 00:06:07,733 (CROSSTALK) 114 00:06:07,733 --> 00:06:11,066 AMY WALTER: What seems different now -- and this, I think, started in the 2018 campaign 115 00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:14,200 - - is that Democrats are no longer taking the bait on these. 116 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,566 They don't feel any need to respond to the president doing this. 117 00:06:17,566 --> 00:06:22,233 You saw every candidate in the 2018 campaign focus on health care. 118 00:06:22,233 --> 00:06:24,866 They didn't react to the president. 119 00:06:24,866 --> 00:06:29,866 Elizabeth Warren in her opening video never mentions the president one time. 120 00:06:32,333 --> 00:06:34,866 She's been on the road now going to Iowa and New Hampshire, doesn't talk about the president, 121 00:06:34,866 --> 00:06:36,633 unless she's asked about the president. 122 00:06:36,633 --> 00:06:39,100 She didn't respond to this tweet. 123 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:44,000 And what the president wants and what he's done in the past with those tweets is to engage 124 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,000 in that battle, and then the media's focus is all about, right -- it's this side. 125 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,433 He says this. 126 00:06:50,433 --> 00:06:51,666 This side says that. 127 00:06:51,666 --> 00:06:53,300 And then we move off the bigger topics. 128 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:54,566 (BREAK) 129 00:06:54,566 --> 00:06:55,500 TAMARA KEITH: And it becomes a feud. 130 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:57,000 AMY WALTER: That's right. 131 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,933 TAMARA KEITH: And if it's only one-sided, it's less of a feud. 132 00:06:57,933 --> 00:07:00,100 AMY WALTER: That's right. 133 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:01,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: And each one of these candidates has to calculate how they're going to deal 134 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,666 with -- the other thing that's come up late today. 135 00:07:03,666 --> 00:07:08,166 And that is the Senate majority leader, Tam, Mitch McConnell, has issued a statement, first 136 00:07:10,066 --> 00:07:14,366 one to come from high levels of Republicans in Congress condemning what Steve King, the 137 00:07:16,266 --> 00:07:19,833 Republican congressman from Iowa, who got a lot of attention last week when he had made 138 00:07:19,833 --> 00:07:24,766 a statement about white supremacist and, in essence, how could something like this be 139 00:07:24,766 --> 00:07:26,766 offensive? 140 00:07:26,766 --> 00:07:30,400 Some Republicans have made mild statements, but now to have Mitch McConnell saying this 141 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,400 is unwelcome, unworthy, and he said anybody - - if he doesn't understand why white supremacy 142 00:07:36,833 --> 00:07:39,366 is offensive, he should find another line of work. 143 00:07:39,366 --> 00:07:43,600 TAMARA KEITH: And in the House, they're discussing possible censure or other ways of rebuking 144 00:07:45,266 --> 00:07:47,333 the statements. 145 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:50,966 It's remarkable in some ways, because Steve King has been saying things like this for 146 00:07:50,966 --> 00:07:53,900 years and years and years and years. 147 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,333 And then he would just sort of continue on. 148 00:07:56,333 --> 00:07:58,400 This seems a little different this time. 149 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,833 JUDY WOODRUFF: But Republicans haven't been - - they have said it's wrong, Amy, but they 150 00:08:02,833 --> 00:08:05,833 haven't been full-throated in their willingness to do... 151 00:08:05,833 --> 00:08:06,833 (CROSSTALK) 152 00:08:06,833 --> 00:08:07,833 JUDY WOODRUFF: The punish him. 153 00:08:07,833 --> 00:08:09,533 AMY WALTER: Right. 154 00:08:09,533 --> 00:08:10,333 I think he was seen as sort of this fringe character for so long. 155 00:08:10,333 --> 00:08:11,766 Well, that's Steve King. 156 00:08:11,766 --> 00:08:14,300 He says these crazy things, but it doesn't matter. 157 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:17,500 Well, now it does, because we talk a lot now about white nationalists and white supremacists. 158 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:20,833 And we saw the reality of that in Charlottesville. 159 00:08:20,833 --> 00:08:22,566 JUDY WOODRUFF: Exactly. 160 00:08:22,566 --> 00:08:24,600 AMY WALTER: And this is no longer just a kooky fringe thing. 161 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,333 This is very, very serious and should be taken very seriously. 162 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:31,866 JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, thank you both. 163 00:08:31,866 --> 00:08:32,866 TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome. 164 00:08:32,866 --> 00:08:33,000 AMY WALTER: You're welcome.