WEBVTT 00:01.833 --> 00:03.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman announced today that 00:03.833 --> 00:07.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he is in the hospital after voluntarily seeking treatment for clinical depression. 00:07.500 --> 00:12.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The senator is still recovering from a stroke last May. His office says he's 00:12.300 --> 00:17.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% often experienced depression, but that it became severe in recent weeks. Millions 00:19.366 --> 00:22.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% of Americans struggle with depression, but few politicians ever share their stories publicly. 00:22.133 --> 00:27.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Jason Kander is one of those who has. He stepped away from his mayoral campaign in 2018, 00:29.666 --> 00:32.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% after acknowledging he'd struggled in silence with depression and PTSD for nearly a dozen years. 00:34.266 --> 00:36.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Jason Kander, thank you so much for being with us. 00:36.500 --> 00:40.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% And you praised Senator Fetterman in a tweet today, 00:40.100 --> 00:45.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% saying that his decision to be transparent and seeking help is awesome leadership. 00:46.933 --> 00:49.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Tell me more about that, why the public acknowledgement is so important. 00:49.466 --> 00:51.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JASON KANDER (D), Former Missouri Secretary Of State: 00:51.033 --> 00:55.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Well, look, so many of us tell ourselves stories. It doesn't 00:55.033 --> 00:57.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% matter whether you served in the military or whether you didn't. It doesn't matter. 00:57.966 --> 01:01.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We tell ourselves stories about how whatever we're going through doesn't 01:01.900 --> 01:06.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% measure up and doesn't count, right? I mean, I can tell you that one of the benefits of 01:08.900 --> 01:12.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% having been public about my own mental health challenges is that I'm a very self-safe place 01:14.133 --> 01:18.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for people to come and talk to somebody and say, here's what I have been going through. 01:18.466 --> 01:22.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% So what that affords me is the knowledge that, like, 01:22.300 --> 01:27.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% everybody is going through stuff. And, at the same time, not everybody feels 01:27.233 --> 01:31.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the license, the permission slip to actually deal with that stuff. 01:31.300 --> 01:36.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And so whether you are a person that people know, like John Fetterman, 01:38.500 --> 01:43.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or whether you're just somebody who the people in your office know, if you are transparent 01:46.066 --> 01:48.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and public and open with people in your life, or people who are -- know who you are, and you say, 01:51.200 --> 01:54.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% this is what I'm going through, this is what I'm doing about it, that is contagious in a good way. 01:54.866 --> 01:57.733 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It causes people to feel that they can give 01:57.733 --> 02:00.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% themselves permission to get help. And that saves lives. 02:00.333 --> 02:02.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: You talked about the benefits that 02:02.633 --> 02:06.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you experienced as a public figure navigating this issue. 02:06.100 --> 02:10.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% To be clear, your experience is not Senator Fetterman's experience. But 02:10.533 --> 02:13.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% what about the flip side of that? How did being in the public eye, 02:13.800 --> 02:16.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% how did that compound things, complicate things for you? 02:16.900 --> 02:18.766 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JASON KANDER: Yes. 02:20.800 --> 02:24.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Well, for one thing, it, I think, for a long time kept me from going to the VA to get help, 02:26.333 --> 02:31.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because I -- it was one of many factors that caused me to think I -- well, 02:32.833 --> 02:35.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I'm a politician, so I can't be out here admitting this vulnerability. 02:35.433 --> 02:40.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But, eventually, I did. And then there was an interesting aspect of it. Like, look, 02:40.366 --> 02:44.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% when you're going through something, every day is not terrible, right? And, in fact, 02:44.866 --> 02:49.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when you're going to therapy, gradually, a lot of the days start to be better than the day before. 02:49.833 --> 02:54.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what the public knows is the last thing that they heard, the last thing they saw, 02:54.366 --> 02:57.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which was, you're going through this thing. So you could be out at the grocery store, 02:57.966 --> 03:01.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and you're feeling pretty good that day, and then somebody takes it upon themselves, 03:01.800 --> 03:06.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% very well-intentioned, to be the person who convinces you to feel better. 03:06.766 --> 03:11.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then they say something that's kind of awkward, but well-intentioned. And that can 03:11.266 --> 03:16.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% be a strange feeling to feel like everybody you meet is now seeing you through this lens of having 03:18.866 --> 03:22.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% this mental health issue that you have either been dealing with or at that point may have dealt with. 03:22.233 --> 03:26.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And it kind of makes you feel like people see you as very fragile. And that's something 03:26.200 --> 03:31.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that -- look, I'm very confident that Senator Fetterman, like most Americans that go to get 03:33.166 --> 03:36.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% treatment for this, just like any other ailment, any physical ailment, I'm sure 03:38.300 --> 03:40.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that that's going to go very well, and that he's going to be back to feeling like himself. 03:40.600 --> 03:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But what he will reckon with is, when he meets new people or when people regard him, there will be 03:48.033 --> 03:51.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a period of time where they see him through this lens and through this knowledge. But he will learn 03:54.133 --> 03:57.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to navigate that. And he will probably, I would imagine, come to take pride in the idea that he 03:58.966 --> 04:03.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can be sort of an example of getting better, which encourages other people to go get help. 04:04.700 --> 04:06.900 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% GEOFF BENNETT: More than 50 percent of Americans will be diagnosed with 04:06.900 --> 04:10.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a mental illness over the course of their lifetime, according to the CDC. 04:10.666 --> 04:15.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% What lessons have you learned from your own journey that might help out others? 04:17.100 --> 04:20.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JASON KANDER: I have learned a lot of lessons.. I wrote a book about it, 04:20.133 --> 04:23.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and which -- which I'm happy to plug. 04:25.066 --> 04:28.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But one of, I think, the most important lessons that I would share here is that 04:28.533 --> 04:33.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it's not a contest, that whatever you have been through or haven't been through that have led 04:35.400 --> 04:39.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you to the place where you need some help, it doesn't really matter how you got here. 04:41.700 --> 04:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% One of the things I think is so important about what Senator Fetterman is doing here is that, 04:47.500 --> 04:50.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% while I got a lot of praise for being public about it, also, our society sort of gives 04:53.033 --> 04:57.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% guys like me permission, right? Like, I'm a combat veteran. There's a certain expectation 04:57.600 --> 05:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% now that somebody like me might have this problem, and there's less judgment, I think, 05:04.733 --> 05:09.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% than somebody who is not in this very particular group that society seems to have given a special 05:11.133 --> 05:15.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% permission slip culturally to have a mental health problem that they need to overcome. 05:17.166 --> 05:21.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so somebody like Senator Fetterman doing this is really important, because I can tell 05:23.133 --> 05:26.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you that so many people come up to me all the time, and they will express some thing that 05:26.133 --> 05:29.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% they have been through or something, and they will say, but I didn't go to war or anything. 05:29.400 --> 05:33.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I'm always like, that doesn't matter. It's not relevant. What my 05:33.233 --> 05:36.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% brain experienced and what your brain experienced, they -- my brain doesn't 05:36.933 --> 05:40.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% know what you're brain experienced. So it really doesn't matter. Trauma is trauma. 05:40.300 --> 05:44.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Senator Fetterman, whether it's clinical depression that he's had for a long time that 05:44.400 --> 05:49.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is like any other ailment that he needs to treat, or whether it's related to the trauma of having a 05:51.933 --> 05:55.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% stroke last year, or it's a mix of the two, fine. It doesn't matter. You don't need a permission 05:55.233 --> 05:59.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% slip. You don't need to justify it. If it's something that you struggle with, go and treat it. 05:59.333 --> 06:04.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the last thing I'd say about it is, I think I have made a much greater impact on the world 06:06.333 --> 06:10.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% since going to get help than I did prior to it. And I -- that, when I think about politicians 06:12.766 --> 06:17.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who -- and Senator Fetterman is not the only one now -- who have announced that they have 06:17.200 --> 06:22.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% gone to get help for some sort of mental health issue, look, I think about the fact -- like, 06:22.133 --> 06:24.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what you just said, over 50 percent of people have had these challenges. 06:24.833 --> 06:28.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think the number is probably higher than that. Look, if we're going to have people 06:28.533 --> 06:33.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in leadership positions, whether in public office or in the corporate world or whatever, 06:34.866 --> 06:36.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I would just rather they have dealt with their stuff, 06:36.533 --> 06:39.166 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% because I live under the assumption that almost all of us have stuff. 06:39.166 --> 06:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I'd rather have people in charge who have dealt with that stuff than 06:43.900 --> 06:46.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% people who are suppressing that stuff and not dealing with it. 06:46.700 --> 06:51.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% GEOFF BENNETT: Jason Kander, thanks so much for the thoughtful conversation. Appreciate you. 06:51.233 --> 06:52.533 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JASON KANDER: Thank you, Geoff.