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GEOFF BENNETT: Pennsylvania 
Senator John Fetterman 
announced today that

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he is in the hospital after 
voluntarily seeking treatment 
for clinical depression.

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The senator is still 
recovering from a stroke last 
May. His office says he's

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often experienced depression, 
but that it became severe 
in recent weeks. Millions

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of Americans struggle 
with depression, but few 
politicians ever share 
their stories publicly.

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Jason Kander is one of those 
who has. He stepped away from 
his mayoral campaign in 2018,

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after acknowledging he'd 
struggled in silence with 
depression and PTSD for 
nearly a dozen years.

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Jason Kander, thank you 
so much for being with us.

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And you praised Senator 
Fetterman in a tweet today,

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saying that his decision to 
be transparent and seeking 
help is awesome leadership.

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Tell me more about that, why 
the public acknowledgement 
is so important.

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JASON KANDER (D), Former 
Missouri Secretary Of State:

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Well, look, so many of us tell 
ourselves stories. It doesn't

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matter whether you served in 
the military or whether you 
didn't. It doesn't matter.

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We tell ourselves stories 
about how whatever we're 
going through doesn't

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measure up and doesn't count, 
right? I mean, I can tell you 
that one of the benefits of

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having been public about my 
own mental health challenges is 
that I'm a very self-safe place

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for people to come and talk to 
somebody and say, here's what 
I have been going through.

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So what that affords me is 
the knowledge that, like,

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everybody is going through 
stuff. And, at the same 
time, not everybody feels

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the license, the permission 
slip to actually deal 
with that stuff.

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And so whether you are a 
person that people know, 
like John Fetterman,

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or whether you're just somebody 
who the people in your office 
know, if you are transparent

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and public and open with 
people in your life, or 
people who are -- know 
who you are, and you say,

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this is what I'm going 
through, this is what I'm 
doing about it, that is 
contagious in a good way.

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It causes people to 
feel that they can give

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themselves permission to get 
help. And that saves lives.

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GEOFF BENNETT: You talked 
about the benefits that

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you experienced as a public 
figure navigating this issue.

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To be clear, your 
experience is not Senator 
Fetterman's experience. But

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what about the flip 
side of that? How did 
being in the public eye,

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how did that compound things, 
complicate things for you?

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JASON KANDER: Yes.

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Well, for one thing, 
it, I think, for a long 
time kept me from going 
to the VA to get help,

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because I -- it was one of 
many factors that caused 
me to think I -- well,

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I'm a politician, so I 
can't be out here admitting 
this vulnerability.

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But, eventually, I did. And 
then there was an interesting 
aspect of it. Like, look,

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when you're going through 
something, every day is not 
terrible, right? And, in fact,

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when you're going to 
therapy, gradually, a lot 
of the days start to be 
better than the day before.

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But what the public knows 
is the last thing that they 
heard, the last thing they saw,

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which was, you're going through 
this thing. So you could be 
out at the grocery store,

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and you're feeling pretty good 
that day, and then somebody 
takes it upon themselves,

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very well-intentioned, to 
be the person who convinces 
you to feel better.

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And then they say something 
that's kind of awkward, but 
well-intentioned. And that can

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be a strange feeling to 
feel like everybody you 
meet is now seeing you 
through this lens of having

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this mental health issue 
that you have either been 
dealing with or at that 
point may have dealt with.

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And it kind of makes you feel 
like people see you as very 
fragile. And that's something

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that -- look, I'm very confident 
that Senator Fetterman, like 
most Americans that go to get

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treatment for this, just 
like any other ailment, any 
physical ailment, I'm sure

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that that's going to go very 
well, and that he's going to be 
back to feeling like himself.

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But what he will reckon with is, 
when he meets new people or when 
people regard him, there will be

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a period of time where 
they see him through this 
lens and through this 
knowledge. But he will learn

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to navigate that. And he 
will probably, I would 
imagine, come to take 
pride in the idea that he

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can be sort of an example of 
getting better, which encourages 
other people to go get help.

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GEOFF BENNETT: More than 
50 percent of Americans 
will be diagnosed with

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a mental illness over the 
course of their lifetime, 
according to the CDC.

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What lessons have you learned 
from your own journey that 
might help out others?

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JASON KANDER: I have 
learned a lot of lessons.. 
I wrote a book about it,

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and which -- which 
I'm happy to plug.

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But one of, I think, the 
most important lessons that 
I would share here is that

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it's not a contest, that 
whatever you have been 
through or haven't been 
through that have led

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you to the place where you 
need some help, it doesn't 
really matter how you got here.

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One of the things I think is 
so important about what Senator 
Fetterman is doing here is that,

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while I got a lot of praise 
for being public about it, 
also, our society sort of gives

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guys like me permission, right? 
Like, I'm a combat veteran. 
There's a certain expectation

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now that somebody like me 
might have this problem, and 
there's less judgment, I think,

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than somebody who is not 
in this very particular 
group that society seems 
to have given a special

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permission slip culturally to 
have a mental health problem 
that they need to overcome.

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And so somebody like Senator 
Fetterman doing this is really 
important, because I can tell

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you that so many people come 
up to me all the time, and they 
will express some thing that

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they have been through 
or something, and they 
will say, but I didn't 
go to war or anything.

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And I'm always like, 
that doesn't matter. It's 
not relevant. What my

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brain experienced and what 
your brain experienced, 
they -- my brain doesn't

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know what you're brain 
experienced. So it 
really doesn't matter. 
Trauma is trauma.

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Senator Fetterman, whether 
it's clinical depression that 
he's had for a long time that

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is like any other ailment 
that he needs to treat, 
or whether it's related 
to the trauma of having a

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stroke last year, or it's 
a mix of the two, fine. 
It doesn't matter. You 
don't need a permission

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slip. You don't need to justify 
it. If it's something that you 
struggle with, go and treat it.

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And the last thing I'd say about 
it is, I think I have made a 
much greater impact on the world

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since going to get help than I 
did prior to it. And I -- that, 
when I think about politicians

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who -- and Senator Fetterman 
is not the only one now -- who 
have announced that they have

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gone to get help for some sort 
of mental health issue, look, 
I think about the fact -- like,

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what you just said, over 
50 percent of people have 
had these challenges.

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I think the number is probably 
higher than that. Look, if 
we're going to have people

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in leadership positions, whether 
in public office or in the 
corporate world or whatever,

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I would just rather they 
have dealt with their stuff,

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because I live under the 
assumption that almost 
all of us have stuff.

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And I'd rather have people 
in charge who have dealt 
with that stuff than

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people who are suppressing that 
stuff and not dealing with it.

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GEOFF BENNETT: Jason 
Kander, thanks so much 
for the thoughtful 
conversation. Appreciate you.

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JASON KANDER: Thank you, Geoff.