WEBVTT 00:01.966 --> 00:03.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We return now to our lead story, President Trump's decision to withdraw 00:03.466 --> 00:05.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% from the Iran nuclear deal. 00:05.066 --> 00:08.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% It has drawn praise and sparked condemnation. 00:08.233 --> 00:11.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% One of the critics is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. 00:11.333 --> 00:15.600 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% He's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a supporter of the nuclear deal. 00:15.600 --> 00:18.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We spoke a short time ago, and I began with his overall reaction. 00:18.900 --> 00:20.566 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 00:20.566 --> 00:23.066 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% TIM KAINE (D), Virginia: Well, William, I was very, very disappointed. 00:23.066 --> 00:24.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is going the make us less safe. 00:24.733 --> 00:29.133 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% It's going the raise the risk of unnecessary war in the Middle East. 00:29.133 --> 00:32.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And as a member of the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee, with a kid in 00:32.800 --> 00:37.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the United States Marine Corps, I don't think we ought to be undermining diplomacy. 00:37.433 --> 00:39.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I think we ought to be strengthening diplomacy. 00:39.533 --> 00:42.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, the president has argued that there were many problems with 00:42.933 --> 00:47.500 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% this deal, that the sunset provisions allow the restrictions on Iran to go away, that 00:47.500 --> 00:52.400 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% the deal doesn't address Iran's development of ballistic missiles, that it doesn't deal 00:52.400 --> 00:55.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% with Iran's behavior elsewhere in the region. 00:55.600 --> 00:57.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Are those not fair criticisms in your mind? 00:57.800 --> 00:59.933 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 00:59.933 --> 01:03.133 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% TIM KAINE: There are fair criticisms of Iran, but those aren't good criticisms of the deal. 01:03.133 --> 01:08.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The first sentence of the first paragraph of the deal, William, as you know, Iran pledges 01:09.633 --> 01:12.533 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% never to seek to purchase, acquire, or develop nuclear weapons. 01:12.533 --> 01:17.200 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Why would the U.S. want to blow up that deal and relieve Iran of that obligation? 01:17.200 --> 01:19.433 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% It makes absolutely no sense. 01:19.433 --> 01:24.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And, as you know, the secretary of defense, Secretary Mattis, testified in an open hearing 01:26.366 --> 01:29.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% before the Armed Services Committee that the deal was in America's interest and Iran was 01:29.133 --> 01:31.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% complying with the deal. 01:31.166 --> 01:35.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% So he is ignoring the advice, not only of our allies, but even of his own secretary 01:35.433 --> 01:38.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of defense, and I just see no percentage in it. 01:38.266 --> 01:42.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I understand that the deal did have a pledge from Iran never to develop 01:42.300 --> 01:47.266 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% them, but as Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu showed last week, the Iranians at one point 01:48.700 --> 01:50.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% did very actively try to build a nuclear weapons program. 01:50.966 --> 01:55.900 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And the president argues that they signed this deal in bad faith, that you cannot trust 01:55.900 --> 01:57.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% them, so that pledge is meaningless in his eyes. 01:57.800 --> 01:59.866 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 01:59.866 --> 02:01.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% TIM KAINE: Well, the reason that you do a deal is, if you don't trust somebody, you 02:01.066 --> 02:02.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% want to get inspections. 02:02.966 --> 02:06.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That's what this deal got us that we never had before. 02:06.033 --> 02:09.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And Iran now doesn't have to allow the inspections. 02:09.500 --> 02:12.500 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% That was the core of Secretary Mattis' argument. 02:12.500 --> 02:17.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The deal allowed significant inspections of Iran's nuclear capacity. 02:17.133 --> 02:21.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Of course, in the past, they were seeking nuclear weapons. 02:21.033 --> 02:22.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That's why we did the deal to begin. 02:22.833 --> 02:26.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We did it to top their nuclear weapons program. 02:26.366 --> 02:31.366 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% And even the Israeli security officials and Mossad intelligence officials, when I would 02:33.333 --> 02:35.433 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% go to the region and meet with them, they say that Iran has been complying with the 02:35.433 --> 02:37.500 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% deal. 02:37.500 --> 02:40.966 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We should focus our energy and attention on the things that Iran is doing wrong. 02:40.966 --> 02:45.966 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% We gave the White House sanctions authority nearly a year ago to take stiff action against 02:48.066 --> 02:51.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% Iranian violation of missile program rules and violations of human rights provisions. 02:53.333 --> 02:56.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% The White House has chosen not to use those sanctions tools. 02:56.700 --> 03:01.500 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And instead they're blowing up the one deal that the IAEA, our allies, and our secretary 03:01.500 --> 03:03.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% of defense says is actually working. 03:03.566 --> 03:08.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The president argues that he can renegotiate this deal, that Iran is 03:08.533 --> 03:13.266 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% financially weak enough, that these new sanctions will bite, and that he can strike a new deal, 03:13.266 --> 03:15.100 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% a better deal. 03:15.100 --> 03:16.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% You don't seem to think that's possible. 03:16.433 --> 03:18.433 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 03:18.433 --> 03:20.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% TIM KAINE: Well, I think it's going to be difficult, because, here, the reason that 03:20.033 --> 03:23.933 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% sanctions bite is if the global community is with us. 03:23.933 --> 03:28.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But here we have our allies, Germany, France, Britain, urging us to stay in the deal. 03:30.900 --> 03:34.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We have the International Atomic Energy Agency saying that Iran is complying with the deal. 03:34.566 --> 03:39.566 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% The sanctions bite hard if the world is unified, but what the president has now done is driven 03:41.566 --> 03:44.800 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% a wedge between us and our European allies, in the guise of what he would call America 03:45.266 --> 03:46.666 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% first. 03:46.666 --> 03:48.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What he's really pitching is America alone. 03:48.700 --> 03:53.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And America being alone without allies working hand in hand with us on an issue like this 03:54.666 --> 03:55.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% doesn't make us stronger. 03:55.766 --> 03:57.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It makes us weaker. 03:57.866 --> 04:00.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As you heard, the president today said that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo 04:00.933 --> 04:05.933 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% is on his way to North Korea right now to start these -- the initial talks for that 04:07.000 --> 04:10.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% nuclear deal, potential nuclear deal. 04:10.066 --> 04:15.066 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% Do you believe what the president did today helps or hurts our negotiating position with 04:15.966 --> 04:16.966 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% the North Koreans? 04:16.966 --> 04:18.500 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 04:18.500 --> 04:19.900 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% TIM KAINE: I think it hurts our position with the North Koreans. 04:19.900 --> 04:22.066 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I'm glad we're having this dialogue. 04:22.066 --> 04:24.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% I think dialogue is preferable to not having dialogue. 04:24.866 --> 04:29.866 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But the message to the North Koreans is this: If you do a deal with the United States, and 04:31.833 --> 04:35.300 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% even if the international community and all the agencies say North Korea is complying 04:37.300 --> 04:40.533 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% with the deal, the U.S. is not a reliable partner and will back out of it. 04:40.533 --> 04:45.533 align:left position:10%,start line:71% size:80% With respect to the Iran deal, we should keep the focus on Iranian behavior and misbehavior. 04:47.400 --> 04:50.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But what the president has done, he's now turned the focus on America's good faith in 04:50.233 --> 04:52.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% keeping a deal that's being complied with. 04:52.333 --> 04:57.233 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% And I think that will reduce the likelihood of North Korea feeling confident enough that 04:58.666 --> 05:00.633 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% they could agree to a deal with the United States. 05:00.633 --> 05:03.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Do you have a sense what the Iranians are going to do now? 05:03.166 --> 05:08.166 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% We heard President Rouhani made some comment about how he would like to stay in the deal 05:09.533 --> 05:11.600 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% with the Europeans, perhaps with China and Russia. 05:11.600 --> 05:16.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But there also seemed to be a hint that they might perhaps put in place the ability to 05:16.466 --> 05:18.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% start up their program again. 05:18.633 --> 05:20.066 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% What is your sense of what they're going to do next? 05:20.066 --> 05:22.100 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 05:22.100 --> 05:24.066 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% TIM KAINE: I don't -- I'm not for sure, but here's what my gut tells me. 05:24.066 --> 05:27.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think that they will probably try to work together with the European allies, Russia, 05:27.833 --> 05:32.833 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% and China to continue to comply with some aspects of the deal, so that those nations 05:33.700 --> 05:35.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% will help them economically. 05:35.833 --> 05:40.400 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% By doing that, they will effectively drive a wedge between the United States and our 05:40.400 --> 05:43.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% European allies, which is a problem. 05:43.033 --> 05:48.033 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% But what I also expect Iran to do is, because the deal involved them agreeing to some very 05:50.033 --> 05:54.766 align:left position:20%,start line:71% size:70% specific and heightened inspections, I think you will see them say, well, President Trump 05:55.500 --> 05:57.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% is out of the deal. 05:57.166 --> 06:00.466 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% We don't have to do the rigorous inspections that the deal required. 06:00.466 --> 06:04.466 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% I think you will start to see them scaling back on allowing inspections, even if they 06:04.466 --> 06:08.466 align:left position:20%,start line:77% size:70% don't immediately start up activity to develop plutonium or uranium. 06:08.466 --> 06:11.133 align:left position:10%,start line:77% size:80% WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, thank you very much. 06:11.133 --> 06:12.133 align:left position:40%,start line:89% size:50% SEN. 06:12.133 --> 06:12.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% TIM KAINE: Absolutely.