WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We return now
to our lead story, President
Trump's decision to withdraw

from the Iran nuclear deal.

It has drawn praise and
sparked condemnation.

One of the critics is Democratic
Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia.

He's a member of the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee and
a supporter of the nuclear deal.

We spoke a short time ago, and I
began with his overall reaction.

SEN.

TIM KAINE (D), Virginia:
Well, William, I was
very, very disappointed.

This is going the
make us less safe.

It's going the raise
the risk of unnecessary
war in the Middle East.

And as a member of the Armed
Services and Foreign Relations
Committee, with a kid in

the United States Marine
Corps, I don't think we ought
to be undermining diplomacy.

I think we ought to be
strengthening diplomacy.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean,
the president has argued that
there were many problems with

this deal, that the
sunset provisions allow
the restrictions on
Iran to go away, that

the deal doesn't address
Iran's development of ballistic
missiles, that it doesn't deal

with Iran's behavior
elsewhere in the region.

Are those not fair
criticisms in your mind?

SEN.

TIM KAINE: There are
fair criticisms of Iran,
but those aren't good
criticisms of the deal.

The first sentence of the first
paragraph of the deal, William,
as you know, Iran pledges

never to seek to
purchase, acquire, or
develop nuclear weapons.

Why would the U.S. want to
blow up that deal and relieve
Iran of that obligation?

It makes absolutely no sense.

And, as you know, the secretary
of defense, Secretary Mattis,
testified in an open hearing

before the Armed Services
Committee that the deal was in
America's interest and Iran was

complying with the deal.

So he is ignoring the advice,
not only of our allies, but
even of his own secretary

of defense, and I just
see no percentage in it.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I understand
that the deal did have a pledge
from Iran never to develop

them, but as Prime Minister of
Israel Netanyahu showed last
week, the Iranians at one point

did very actively try to build
a nuclear weapons program.

And the president argues that
they signed this deal in bad
faith, that you cannot trust

them, so that pledge is
meaningless in his eyes.

SEN.

TIM KAINE: Well, the reason
that you do a deal is, if
you don't trust somebody, you

want to get inspections.

That's what this deal got
us that we never had before.

And Iran now doesn't have
to allow the inspections.

That was the core of
Secretary Mattis' argument.

The deal allowed
significant inspections of
Iran's nuclear capacity.

Of course, in the past, they
were seeking nuclear weapons.

That's why we did
the deal to begin.

We did it to top their
nuclear weapons program.

And even the Israeli
security officials and
Mossad intelligence
officials, when I would

go to the region and meet
with them, they say that Iran
has been complying with the

deal.

We should focus our energy
and attention on the things
that Iran is doing wrong.

We gave the White House
sanctions authority
nearly a year ago to
take stiff action against

Iranian violation of missile
program rules and violations
of human rights provisions.

The White House has chosen not
to use those sanctions tools.

And instead they're blowing
up the one deal that the IAEA,
our allies, and our secretary

of defense says is
actually working.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The president
argues that he can renegotiate
this deal, that Iran is

financially weak enough,
that these new sanctions
will bite, and that he
can strike a new deal,

a better deal.

You don't seem to
think that's possible.

SEN.

TIM KAINE: Well, I think
it's going to be difficult,
because, here, the reason that

sanctions bite is if the
global community is with us.

But here we have our allies,
Germany, France, Britain,
urging us to stay in the deal.

We have the International Atomic
Energy Agency saying that Iran
is complying with the deal.

The sanctions bite hard if the
world is unified, but what the
president has now done is driven

a wedge between us and our
European allies, in the guise
of what he would call America

first.

What he's really pitching
is America alone.

And America being alone without
allies working hand in hand
with us on an issue like this

doesn't make us stronger.

It makes us weaker.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As you heard,
the president today said that
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

is on his way to North Korea
right now to start these --
the initial talks for that

nuclear deal,
potential nuclear deal.

Do you believe what
the president did today
helps or hurts our
negotiating position with

the North Koreans?

SEN.

TIM KAINE: I think it hurts our
position with the North Koreans.

I'm glad we're
having this dialogue.

I think dialogue is preferable
to not having dialogue.

But the message to the North
Koreans is this: If you do a
deal with the United States, and

even if the international
community and all the agencies
say North Korea is complying

with the deal, the U.S.
is not a reliable partner
and will back out of it.

With respect to the Iran
deal, we should keep
the focus on Iranian
behavior and misbehavior.

But what the president has
done, he's now turned the focus
on America's good faith in

keeping a deal that's
being complied with.

And I think that will reduce
the likelihood of North Korea
feeling confident enough that

they could agree to a deal
with the United States.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Do you
have a sense what the
Iranians are going to do now?

We heard President Rouhani
made some comment about how he
would like to stay in the deal

with the Europeans, perhaps
with China and Russia.

But there also seemed to be a
hint that they might perhaps
put in place the ability to

start up their program again.

What is your sense of what
they're going to do next?

SEN.

TIM KAINE: I don't -- I'm
not for sure, but here's
what my gut tells me.

I think that they will probably
try to work together with
the European allies, Russia,

and China to continue to
comply with some aspects of
the deal, so that those nations

will help them economically.

By doing that, they
will effectively drive
a wedge between the
United States and our

European allies,
which is a problem.

But what I also expect Iran to
do is, because the deal involved
them agreeing to some very

specific and heightened
inspections, I think
you will see them say,
well, President Trump

is out of the deal.

We don't have to do the
rigorous inspections
that the deal required.

I think you will start to see
them scaling back on allowing
inspections, even if they

don't immediately start
up activity to develop
plutonium or uranium.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All
right, Senator Tim Kaine of
Virginia, thank you very much.

SEN.

TIM KAINE: Absolutely.