1 00:00:01,966 --> 00:00:03,466 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We return now to our lead story, President Trump's decision to withdraw 2 00:00:03,466 --> 00:00:05,066 from the Iran nuclear deal. 3 00:00:05,066 --> 00:00:08,233 It has drawn praise and sparked condemnation. 4 00:00:08,233 --> 00:00:11,333 One of the critics is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. 5 00:00:11,333 --> 00:00:15,600 He's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a supporter of the nuclear deal. 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,900 We spoke a short time ago, and I began with his overall reaction. 7 00:00:18,900 --> 00:00:20,566 SEN. 8 00:00:20,566 --> 00:00:23,066 TIM KAINE (D), Virginia: Well, William, I was very, very disappointed. 9 00:00:23,066 --> 00:00:24,733 This is going the make us less safe. 10 00:00:24,733 --> 00:00:29,133 It's going the raise the risk of unnecessary war in the Middle East. 11 00:00:29,133 --> 00:00:32,800 And as a member of the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee, with a kid in 12 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,433 the United States Marine Corps, I don't think we ought to be undermining diplomacy. 13 00:00:37,433 --> 00:00:39,533 I think we ought to be strengthening diplomacy. 14 00:00:39,533 --> 00:00:42,933 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, the president has argued that there were many problems with 15 00:00:42,933 --> 00:00:47,500 this deal, that the sunset provisions allow the restrictions on Iran to go away, that 16 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:52,400 the deal doesn't address Iran's development of ballistic missiles, that it doesn't deal 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,600 with Iran's behavior elsewhere in the region. 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,800 Are those not fair criticisms in your mind? 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,933 SEN. 20 00:00:59,933 --> 00:01:03,133 TIM KAINE: There are fair criticisms of Iran, but those aren't good criticisms of the deal. 21 00:01:03,133 --> 00:01:08,133 The first sentence of the first paragraph of the deal, William, as you know, Iran pledges 22 00:01:09,633 --> 00:01:12,533 never to seek to purchase, acquire, or develop nuclear weapons. 23 00:01:12,533 --> 00:01:17,200 Why would the U.S. want to blow up that deal and relieve Iran of that obligation? 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,433 It makes absolutely no sense. 25 00:01:19,433 --> 00:01:24,433 And, as you know, the secretary of defense, Secretary Mattis, testified in an open hearing 26 00:01:26,366 --> 00:01:29,133 before the Armed Services Committee that the deal was in America's interest and Iran was 27 00:01:29,133 --> 00:01:31,166 complying with the deal. 28 00:01:31,166 --> 00:01:35,433 So he is ignoring the advice, not only of our allies, but even of his own secretary 29 00:01:35,433 --> 00:01:38,266 of defense, and I just see no percentage in it. 30 00:01:38,266 --> 00:01:42,300 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I understand that the deal did have a pledge from Iran never to develop 31 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:47,266 them, but as Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu showed last week, the Iranians at one point 32 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:50,966 did very actively try to build a nuclear weapons program. 33 00:01:50,966 --> 00:01:55,900 And the president argues that they signed this deal in bad faith, that you cannot trust 34 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:57,800 them, so that pledge is meaningless in his eyes. 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,866 SEN. 36 00:01:59,866 --> 00:02:01,066 TIM KAINE: Well, the reason that you do a deal is, if you don't trust somebody, you 37 00:02:01,066 --> 00:02:02,966 want to get inspections. 38 00:02:02,966 --> 00:02:06,033 That's what this deal got us that we never had before. 39 00:02:06,033 --> 00:02:09,500 And Iran now doesn't have to allow the inspections. 40 00:02:09,500 --> 00:02:12,500 That was the core of Secretary Mattis' argument. 41 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:17,133 The deal allowed significant inspections of Iran's nuclear capacity. 42 00:02:17,133 --> 00:02:21,033 Of course, in the past, they were seeking nuclear weapons. 43 00:02:21,033 --> 00:02:22,833 That's why we did the deal to begin. 44 00:02:22,833 --> 00:02:26,366 We did it to top their nuclear weapons program. 45 00:02:26,366 --> 00:02:31,366 And even the Israeli security officials and Mossad intelligence officials, when I would 46 00:02:33,333 --> 00:02:35,433 go to the region and meet with them, they say that Iran has been complying with the 47 00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:37,500 deal. 48 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:40,966 We should focus our energy and attention on the things that Iran is doing wrong. 49 00:02:40,966 --> 00:02:45,966 We gave the White House sanctions authority nearly a year ago to take stiff action against 50 00:02:48,066 --> 00:02:51,166 Iranian violation of missile program rules and violations of human rights provisions. 51 00:02:53,333 --> 00:02:56,700 The White House has chosen not to use those sanctions tools. 52 00:02:56,700 --> 00:03:01,500 And instead they're blowing up the one deal that the IAEA, our allies, and our secretary 53 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:03,566 of defense says is actually working. 54 00:03:03,566 --> 00:03:08,533 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The president argues that he can renegotiate this deal, that Iran is 55 00:03:08,533 --> 00:03:13,266 financially weak enough, that these new sanctions will bite, and that he can strike a new deal, 56 00:03:13,266 --> 00:03:15,100 a better deal. 57 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:16,433 You don't seem to think that's possible. 58 00:03:16,433 --> 00:03:18,433 SEN. 59 00:03:18,433 --> 00:03:20,033 TIM KAINE: Well, I think it's going to be difficult, because, here, the reason that 60 00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:23,933 sanctions bite is if the global community is with us. 61 00:03:23,933 --> 00:03:28,933 But here we have our allies, Germany, France, Britain, urging us to stay in the deal. 62 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:34,566 We have the International Atomic Energy Agency saying that Iran is complying with the deal. 63 00:03:34,566 --> 00:03:39,566 The sanctions bite hard if the world is unified, but what the president has now done is driven 64 00:03:41,566 --> 00:03:44,800 a wedge between us and our European allies, in the guise of what he would call America 65 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:46,666 first. 66 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:48,700 What he's really pitching is America alone. 67 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:53,533 And America being alone without allies working hand in hand with us on an issue like this 68 00:03:54,666 --> 00:03:55,766 doesn't make us stronger. 69 00:03:55,766 --> 00:03:57,866 It makes us weaker. 70 00:03:57,866 --> 00:04:00,933 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: As you heard, the president today said that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo 71 00:04:00,933 --> 00:04:05,933 is on his way to North Korea right now to start these -- the initial talks for that 72 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,066 nuclear deal, potential nuclear deal. 73 00:04:10,066 --> 00:04:15,066 Do you believe what the president did today helps or hurts our negotiating position with 74 00:04:15,966 --> 00:04:16,966 the North Koreans? 75 00:04:16,966 --> 00:04:18,500 SEN. 76 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:19,900 TIM KAINE: I think it hurts our position with the North Koreans. 77 00:04:19,900 --> 00:04:22,066 I'm glad we're having this dialogue. 78 00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:24,866 I think dialogue is preferable to not having dialogue. 79 00:04:24,866 --> 00:04:29,866 But the message to the North Koreans is this: If you do a deal with the United States, and 80 00:04:31,833 --> 00:04:35,300 even if the international community and all the agencies say North Korea is complying 81 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:40,533 with the deal, the U.S. is not a reliable partner and will back out of it. 82 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:45,533 With respect to the Iran deal, we should keep the focus on Iranian behavior and misbehavior. 83 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,233 But what the president has done, he's now turned the focus on America's good faith in 84 00:04:50,233 --> 00:04:52,333 keeping a deal that's being complied with. 85 00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:57,233 And I think that will reduce the likelihood of North Korea feeling confident enough that 86 00:04:58,666 --> 00:05:00,633 they could agree to a deal with the United States. 87 00:05:00,633 --> 00:05:03,166 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Do you have a sense what the Iranians are going to do now? 88 00:05:03,166 --> 00:05:08,166 We heard President Rouhani made some comment about how he would like to stay in the deal 89 00:05:09,533 --> 00:05:11,600 with the Europeans, perhaps with China and Russia. 90 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,466 But there also seemed to be a hint that they might perhaps put in place the ability to 91 00:05:16,466 --> 00:05:18,633 start up their program again. 92 00:05:18,633 --> 00:05:20,066 What is your sense of what they're going to do next? 93 00:05:20,066 --> 00:05:22,100 SEN. 94 00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:24,066 TIM KAINE: I don't -- I'm not for sure, but here's what my gut tells me. 95 00:05:24,066 --> 00:05:27,833 I think that they will probably try to work together with the European allies, Russia, 96 00:05:27,833 --> 00:05:32,833 and China to continue to comply with some aspects of the deal, so that those nations 97 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:35,833 will help them economically. 98 00:05:35,833 --> 00:05:40,400 By doing that, they will effectively drive a wedge between the United States and our 99 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,033 European allies, which is a problem. 100 00:05:43,033 --> 00:05:48,033 But what I also expect Iran to do is, because the deal involved them agreeing to some very 101 00:05:50,033 --> 00:05:54,766 specific and heightened inspections, I think you will see them say, well, President Trump 102 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:57,166 is out of the deal. 103 00:05:57,166 --> 00:06:00,466 We don't have to do the rigorous inspections that the deal required. 104 00:06:00,466 --> 00:06:04,466 I think you will start to see them scaling back on allowing inspections, even if they 105 00:06:04,466 --> 00:06:08,466 don't immediately start up activity to develop plutonium or uranium. 106 00:06:08,466 --> 00:06:11,133 WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, thank you very much. 107 00:06:11,133 --> 00:06:12,133 SEN. 108 00:06:12,133 --> 00:06:12,266 TIM KAINE: Absolutely.