1 00:00:00,333 --> 00:00:01,200 >> Sreenivasan: EARLY POLICE 2 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:02,233 REPORTS, AND SUBSEQUENT 3 00:00:02,233 --> 00:00:03,266 EVIDENCE, PRESENTED IN THE 4 00:00:03,266 --> 00:00:04,566 POLICE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD, 5 00:00:04,566 --> 00:00:06,266 PAINTED A CONTRADICTORY PICTURE 6 00:00:06,266 --> 00:00:07,666 OF THE DEADLY EVENTS THAT PLAYED 7 00:00:07,666 --> 00:00:09,100 OUT THAT EVENING, NEARLY A YEAR 8 00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:11,200 AGO IN MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA. 9 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:12,933 MORE RECENTLY, NEWLY RELEASED 10 00:00:12,933 --> 00:00:15,000 VIDEO FROM TWO YEARS AGO AFTER 11 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,400 THE DEATH OF RONALD GREENE IN 12 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,333 LOUISIANA, PAINTS ANOTHER 13 00:00:18,333 --> 00:00:19,966 INCONSISTENT PICTURE. 14 00:00:19,966 --> 00:00:21,266 GREENE DIED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT 15 00:00:21,266 --> 00:00:23,133 CUSTODY AFTER A CAR CHASE. 16 00:00:23,133 --> 00:00:24,666 AND WHILE INCIDENTS LIKE THESE 17 00:00:24,666 --> 00:00:26,500 SPARK RENEWED CALLS FOR POLICE 18 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:28,233 REFORM, CONSENSUS ON WHAT THAT 19 00:00:28,233 --> 00:00:30,100 MEANS IS NEBULOUS. 20 00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:31,933 I SPOKE WITH PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, 21 00:00:31,933 --> 00:00:33,566 CO-FOUNDER AND C.E.O. OF THE 22 00:00:33,566 --> 00:00:35,766 CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY AND 23 00:00:35,766 --> 00:00:37,100 PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN 24 00:00:37,100 --> 00:00:38,833 STUDIES AND PSYCHOLOGY AT YALE 25 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:41,166 UNIVERSITY ABOUT THESE ISSUES. 26 00:00:41,166 --> 00:00:44,600 IN THIS LAST YEAR, HAVE WE SEEN 27 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,133 STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO POLICING 28 00:00:47,133 --> 00:00:48,333 IN AMERICA? 29 00:00:48,333 --> 00:00:49,733 >> SO, THERE'S TWO WAYS FOR ME 30 00:00:49,733 --> 00:00:51,266 TO TAKE THAT QUESTION. 31 00:00:51,266 --> 00:00:53,700 THE FIRST WAY IS HAS THE COUNTRY 32 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:54,933 CHANGED? 33 00:00:54,933 --> 00:00:56,600 AND I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE 34 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,100 FRUSTRATED BY THE LACK OF CHANGE 35 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:01,766 THAT THEY SEE NATIONWIDE. 36 00:01:01,766 --> 00:01:02,833 AND IT ABSOLUTELY FEELS LIKE 37 00:01:02,833 --> 00:01:04,500 IT'S A NATIONWIDE QUESTION. 38 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:05,600 THAT'S IN PART BECAUSE PEOPLE 39 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:06,633 ARE LOOKING AT FEDERAL 40 00:01:06,633 --> 00:01:08,633 LEGISLATION WHICH HASN'T PASSED. 41 00:01:08,633 --> 00:01:10,333 THEY'RE LOOKING FOR PRESIDENTIAL 42 00:01:10,333 --> 00:01:11,233 LEADERSHIP. 43 00:01:11,233 --> 00:01:12,533 AND WE'VE JUST HAD A TRANSITION. 44 00:01:12,533 --> 00:01:13,400 THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING 45 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,433 THAT DEALS WITH IT AT A FULL 46 00:01:14,433 --> 00:01:15,900 NATIONAL LEVEL. 47 00:01:15,900 --> 00:01:17,533 AND WHEN WE'RE LOOKING THERE, IT 48 00:01:17,533 --> 00:01:18,633 DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WHAT WE WANT 49 00:01:18,633 --> 00:01:19,533 TO SEE. 50 00:01:19,533 --> 00:01:21,400 THAT SAID, THERE ARE LOTS OF 51 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,900 POCKETS, COMMUNITIES, ORGANIZERS 52 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,133 AROUND THE COUNTRY, THAT HAVE 53 00:01:25,133 --> 00:01:27,533 DONE REALLY REMARKABLE THINGS. 54 00:01:27,533 --> 00:01:29,466 WE'VE SEEN THE CITY OF BERKELEY 55 00:01:29,466 --> 00:01:30,666 END LOW LEVEL TRAFFIC 56 00:01:30,666 --> 00:01:32,466 ENFORCEMENT, CITY OF BALTIMORE 57 00:01:32,466 --> 00:01:34,133 IS DECLINING TO PROSECUTE IT. 58 00:01:34,133 --> 00:01:35,666 CITY OF ITHACA JUST APPROVED A 59 00:01:35,666 --> 00:01:37,600 PLAN TO DISSOLVE ITS POLICE 60 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:38,633 DEPARTMENT AND PUT TOGETHER 61 00:01:38,633 --> 00:01:40,166 SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, A 62 00:01:40,166 --> 00:01:41,233 DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY 63 00:01:41,233 --> 00:01:43,133 SOLUTIONS AND PUBLIC SAFETY 64 00:01:43,133 --> 00:01:44,700 THAT'S MAJORITY UNARMED, 65 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:45,833 CIVILIAN-LED, AND WON'T SEND 66 00:01:45,833 --> 00:01:47,566 ANYBODY ARMED TO A NONVIOLENT 67 00:01:47,566 --> 00:01:48,966 CONFLICT. 68 00:01:48,966 --> 00:01:50,066 SO, I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS 69 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:52,433 WE'RE SEEING PIECEMEAL, LIGHT 70 00:01:52,433 --> 00:01:54,700 YEARS OF LEAPS. 71 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:56,966 SO, PIECEMEAL JUMPS FORWARD 72 00:01:56,966 --> 00:01:58,633 TOWARDS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. 73 00:01:58,633 --> 00:01:59,700 AND THAT'S GOING TO BE 74 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:01,000 ULTIMATELY UNSATISFYING WHEN 75 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,100 WE'RE LOOKING AT IN A NATIONAL 76 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:03,466 LENS, BUT IT'S GOING TO CREATE 77 00:02:03,466 --> 00:02:05,633 THE MODELS THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE 78 00:02:05,633 --> 00:02:07,200 TO SEE FULL NATIONAL CHANGE. 79 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,766 >> Sreenivasan: YOU HAVE, WHAT, 80 00:02:08,766 --> 00:02:10,433 18,000 DIFFERENT POLICE 81 00:02:10,433 --> 00:02:12,066 DEPARTMENTS OR JURISDICTIONS, 82 00:02:12,066 --> 00:02:14,266 AND WHAT MIGHT WORK IN A COLLEGE 83 00:02:14,266 --> 00:02:17,066 TOWN LIKE BERKELEY OR ITHACA, 84 00:02:17,066 --> 00:02:18,866 WILL IT WORK ON THE STREETS OF A 85 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:20,266 MAJOR AMERICAN CITY? 86 00:02:20,266 --> 00:02:22,466 HOW DO WE, KIND OF, GET FROM ONE 87 00:02:22,466 --> 00:02:24,666 PLACE TO THE OTHER WITHOUT THE 88 00:02:24,666 --> 00:02:26,666 SORT OF CULTURAL IMMEDIATE 89 00:02:26,666 --> 00:02:28,333 RESISTANCE AND RESPONSE THAT 90 00:02:28,333 --> 00:02:31,466 SAYS, HOLD ON HERE, I EQUATE 91 00:02:31,466 --> 00:02:33,900 MORE COPS ON THE STREETS WITH 92 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:35,866 INCREASED SAFETY, BECAUSE 93 00:02:35,866 --> 00:02:38,433 PARTLY, THAT IS THE MESSAGE THAT 94 00:02:38,433 --> 00:02:40,733 I'VE HEARD AND BELIEVED FOR 95 00:02:40,733 --> 00:02:42,500 DECADES. 96 00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:43,966 >> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A GOOD 97 00:02:43,966 --> 00:02:44,833 QUESTION. 98 00:02:44,833 --> 00:02:46,333 ITHACA AND BERKELEY ARE NOT 99 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:47,700 PHILADELPHIA AND ST. LOUIS, AND 100 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:48,833 WE SHOULDN'T TRY TO PRETEND LIKE 101 00:02:48,833 --> 00:02:49,933 THEY ARE. 102 00:02:49,933 --> 00:02:51,166 THERE'S 18,000 LAW ENFORCEMENT 103 00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:52,200 AGENCIES ACROSS THE UNITED 104 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,166 STATES. 105 00:02:53,166 --> 00:02:54,100 AND WHEN WE THINK OF POLICING, 106 00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:56,200 WE THINK OF N.Y.P.D. AND CHICAGO 107 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,933 AND HOUSTON AND PHILADELPHIA. 108 00:02:57,933 --> 00:02:59,966 BUT THE REALITY IS, 75% OF THOSE 109 00:02:59,966 --> 00:03:02,266 LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARE 25 110 00:03:02,266 --> 00:03:03,200 OFFICERS OR FEWER. 111 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:04,266 AND THERE'S 1,000 THAT ARE JUST 112 00:03:04,266 --> 00:03:05,966 ONE DUDE, BUT IT'S PRETTY MUCH 113 00:03:05,966 --> 00:03:07,400 ALWAYS A DUDE. 114 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,800 SO, IN THAT CONTEXT, WE'RE GOING 115 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,666 TO SEE REALLY DIFFERENT CHANGES 116 00:03:11,666 --> 00:03:13,066 IN A CITY WHERE THERE'S 63 117 00:03:13,066 --> 00:03:14,433 OFFICERS, THAN IN A CITY WHERE 118 00:03:14,433 --> 00:03:16,033 THERE'S 35,000. 119 00:03:16,033 --> 00:03:17,000 THAT MIGHT NOT EVEN BE THE SAME 120 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,366 JOB. 121 00:03:18,366 --> 00:03:19,733 SO, NO, I DON'T THINK WHAT'S 122 00:03:19,733 --> 00:03:21,366 HAPPENING IN BERKELEY AND ITHICA 123 00:03:21,366 --> 00:03:22,733 IS AN IMMEDIATE ROADMAP FOR 124 00:03:22,733 --> 00:03:24,366 CHICAGO AND DALLAS. 125 00:03:24,366 --> 00:03:25,566 I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT THEY 126 00:03:25,566 --> 00:03:26,633 PROVIDE MODELS FOR HOW 127 00:03:26,633 --> 00:03:27,866 COMMUNITIES COME TOGETHER AND 128 00:03:27,866 --> 00:03:28,966 SAY THIS IS HOW WE KEEP 129 00:03:28,966 --> 00:03:30,666 OURSELVES SAFE. 130 00:03:30,666 --> 00:03:33,066 AND SO, IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE 131 00:03:33,066 --> 00:03:34,633 FOR NEW YORK TO DO WHAT ITHICA 132 00:03:34,633 --> 00:03:35,866 JUST DID, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE IN 133 00:03:35,866 --> 00:03:37,166 THE SAME STATE. 134 00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:38,433 IT MAY BE POSSIBLE, THOUGH, FOR 135 00:03:38,433 --> 00:03:40,633 ONE BOROUGH OR FOR ONE PRECINCT 136 00:03:40,633 --> 00:03:42,033 TO GIVE THAT A SHOT AND THAT WE 137 00:03:42,033 --> 00:03:43,700 SCALE UP COMMUNITY BY COMMUNITY 138 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:45,200 AND BLOCK BY BLOCK, BECAUSE 139 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,300 THAT'S HONESTLY HOW CRIME WORKS. 140 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:48,866 CRIME IS HYPER LOCAL. 141 00:03:48,866 --> 00:03:49,866 IT'S NOT EVEN LIKE A 142 00:03:49,866 --> 00:03:50,900 NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S ONE STREET 143 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:52,166 CORNER WITHIN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD 144 00:03:52,166 --> 00:03:54,266 THAT'S LIKE 85% OF THE VIOLENCE. 145 00:03:54,266 --> 00:03:55,833 SO, IF CRIME WORKS THAT WAY, WHY 146 00:03:55,833 --> 00:03:57,533 DO WE IMAGINE THAT SOLUTIONS TO 147 00:03:57,533 --> 00:03:59,466 CRIME, SOLUTIONS TO POVERTY, 148 00:03:59,466 --> 00:04:01,400 SOLUTIONS TO THE CONCENTRATED 149 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,500 SETS OF DISADVANTAGE THAT MAKE 150 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:05,800 CRIME A MORE ATTRACTIVE REALITY, 151 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,233 WHY DO WE IMAGINE THAT OUR 152 00:04:07,233 --> 00:04:08,566 SOLUTIONS DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE 153 00:04:08,566 --> 00:04:09,666 SAME KIND OF SHAPE AND THE SAME 154 00:04:09,666 --> 00:04:10,933 KIND OF SCALE? 155 00:04:10,933 --> 00:04:11,966 I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT I'M GOING 156 00:04:11,966 --> 00:04:13,000 TO TELL YOU, WE'RE GOING TO BE 157 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,266 DISAPPOINTED UNTIL WE RIGHT SIZE 158 00:04:14,266 --> 00:04:15,466 THOSE SETS OF THINGS. 159 00:04:15,466 --> 00:04:16,500 >> Sreenivasan: BUT WHAT 160 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:17,800 COMPLICATES MATTERS IS THAT 161 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,366 WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION 162 00:04:19,366 --> 00:04:20,766 IN STILL, KIND OF, I'D SAY 163 00:04:20,766 --> 00:04:22,766 HOPEFULLY THE SECOND HALF OF A 164 00:04:22,766 --> 00:04:24,633 PANDEMIC, WHICH HAS HAD MASSIVE 165 00:04:24,633 --> 00:04:26,900 ECONOMIC REPERCUSSIONS, HAS MADE 166 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:28,566 PEOPLE THINK SO DIFFERENTLY 167 00:04:28,566 --> 00:04:31,133 ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE IN SOCIETY. 168 00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:32,600 ARE THEY ESSENTIAL OR ARE THEY 169 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:33,666 EXPENDABLE? 170 00:04:33,666 --> 00:04:37,433 HOW DO I FIT INTO THIS? 171 00:04:37,433 --> 00:04:39,133 WHAT IS THE ROLE OF POLICE AND 172 00:04:39,133 --> 00:04:41,133 CRIME, IS KIND OF ONE QUESTION 173 00:04:41,133 --> 00:04:42,366 THAT'S PART OF A MUCH, MUCH 174 00:04:42,366 --> 00:04:44,266 BIGGER SET OF CHALLENGES THAT 175 00:04:44,266 --> 00:04:45,966 WE'RE ALL DEALING WITH. 176 00:04:45,966 --> 00:04:47,866 >> YEAH, IT'S BOTH, IT MAKES IT 177 00:04:47,866 --> 00:04:49,266 MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE LOOK AT 178 00:04:49,266 --> 00:04:50,400 ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE'VE GOT 179 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,233 TO DO JUST TO STAY SAFE, RIGHT. 180 00:04:52,233 --> 00:04:53,566 ESPECIALLY DURING A PERIOD WHERE 181 00:04:53,566 --> 00:04:55,166 THE ECONOMY IS CRASHING AND 182 00:04:55,166 --> 00:04:56,633 WE'VE NOT PROVIDED APPROPRIATE 183 00:04:56,633 --> 00:04:58,400 PROTECTIONS AGAINST EVICTIONS. 184 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,566 HOW DO YOU SOCIAL DISTANCE WHEN 185 00:04:59,566 --> 00:05:01,600 YOU CAN'T STAY INDOORS? 186 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,366 AND, ALSO, IT PROVIDES A UNIQUE 187 00:05:03,366 --> 00:05:05,066 SET OF OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE 188 00:05:05,066 --> 00:05:06,166 IT'S VERY CLEAR THE WAY THAT WE 189 00:05:06,166 --> 00:05:07,966 KEEP PEOPLE INDOORS ISN'T 190 00:05:07,966 --> 00:05:08,733 WORKING. 191 00:05:08,733 --> 00:05:10,100 THE WAY WE KEEP PEOPLE EMPLOYED 192 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,033 ISN'T WORKING. 193 00:05:11,033 --> 00:05:12,300 LOOK AT MISSISSIPPI, WHERE THEY 194 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:14,066 PROVIDED UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, 195 00:05:14,066 --> 00:05:15,633 AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE 196 00:05:15,633 --> 00:05:16,733 DECIDED THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GO 197 00:05:16,733 --> 00:05:17,966 BACK TO MENIAL JOBS THAT WEREN'T 198 00:05:17,966 --> 00:05:19,400 TREATING THEM VERY WELL. 199 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,033 AND THE GOVERNOR DECIDED, YOU 200 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:22,433 KNOW WHAT, WE GOT TO TAKE AWAY 201 00:05:22,433 --> 00:05:23,566 YOUR MONEY, OTHERWISE YOU'LL 202 00:05:23,566 --> 00:05:25,166 NEVER PRODUCE FOR US. 203 00:05:25,166 --> 00:05:26,666 PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT ENTIRE 204 00:05:26,666 --> 00:05:28,233 ECONOMIC SYSTEMS DIFFERENTLY 205 00:05:28,233 --> 00:05:29,366 BECAUSE THE WAY THAT WE'VE SET 206 00:05:29,366 --> 00:05:31,200 UP OUR SOCIETY DOES NOT TREAT 207 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,466 VULNERABLE PEOPLE LIKE THEY'RE 208 00:05:32,466 --> 00:05:33,700 FULLY HUMAN. 209 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:34,966 AND THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO START 210 00:05:34,966 --> 00:05:36,233 THINKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, 211 00:05:36,233 --> 00:05:37,500 BECAUSE IF ALL WE'RE DOING RIGHT 212 00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:38,566 NOW IS THINKING ABOUT THE 213 00:05:38,566 --> 00:05:40,166 POLICE, WE'VE ALREADY FAILED. 214 00:05:40,166 --> 00:05:41,200 >> Sreenivasan: SO, HOW DO YOU 215 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,433 TRANSLATE FROM, SAY, FOR 216 00:05:43,433 --> 00:05:44,500 EXAMPLE, IF YOU COULD WAVE A 217 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:46,100 MAGIC WAND AND HAVE EVERY 218 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:48,300 OFFICER AND ALL 18,000 219 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:49,700 JURISDICTIONS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 220 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:51,733 AGENCIES TAKE IMPLICIT BIAS 221 00:05:51,733 --> 00:05:53,633 TESTS AND UNDERSTAND THAT THERE 222 00:05:53,633 --> 00:05:55,166 ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THEY 223 00:05:55,166 --> 00:05:57,433 BRING TO EVERY OCCASION, HOW DO 224 00:05:57,433 --> 00:05:59,400 YOU TRANSLATE THAT INTO AN 225 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,900 ACTUAL CULTURAL SHIFT WHERE WE 226 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:06,166 PERCEIVE ONE ANOTHER DIFFERENTLY 227 00:06:06,166 --> 00:06:08,600 DAY AFTER DAY, INCIDENT AFTER 228 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,000 INCIDENT, WHICH IS REALLY 229 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,366 DIFFICULT? 230 00:06:12,366 --> 00:06:14,033 >> IT IS. 231 00:06:14,033 --> 00:06:15,100 IT'S SO DIFFICULT THAT I DON'T 232 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:16,833 KNOW THAT WE REALLY WANT TO TRY. 233 00:06:16,833 --> 00:06:19,266 HERE'S WHAT I MEAN BY THAT: THE 234 00:06:19,266 --> 00:06:20,900 WAY YOU ASK THAT QUESTION, AND 235 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:22,766 I'M NOT ATTACKING YOU IN ANY 236 00:06:22,766 --> 00:06:23,866 WAY, THE WAY YOU ASK THAT 237 00:06:23,866 --> 00:06:24,900 QUESTION. 238 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:26,233 IT'S THE WAY I GET ASKED A LOT. 239 00:06:26,233 --> 00:06:27,266 HOW DO WE CHANGE THE HEARTS AND 240 00:06:27,266 --> 00:06:28,300 MINDS OF OFFICERS TO MAKE 241 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:29,900 POLICING BETTER? 242 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:31,100 AND I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG 243 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:33,166 DIAGNOSIS OF THE SOLUTION. 244 00:06:33,166 --> 00:06:34,466 RATHER THAN FOCUSING ON THE 245 00:06:34,466 --> 00:06:35,766 HEARTS AND MINDS OF OFFICERS OR 246 00:06:35,766 --> 00:06:36,800 REALLY THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF 247 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,733 ANYBODY, LET'S FOCUS ON THE 248 00:06:38,733 --> 00:06:40,633 BEHAVIORS, ON THE STRUCTURES 249 00:06:40,633 --> 00:06:41,800 THAT WE ERECT THAT OVER- 250 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:42,833 DETERMINED EVERYBODY'S 251 00:06:42,833 --> 00:06:43,900 BEHAVIORS. 252 00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:45,000 AND, SCOUT'S HONOR, WE'RE GOING 253 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:45,966 TO GET A BETTER OUTCOME. 254 00:06:45,966 --> 00:06:47,133 I'M A SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGIST, 255 00:06:47,133 --> 00:06:48,066 RIGHT? 256 00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:48,966 THAT'S MY TRAINING. 257 00:06:48,966 --> 00:06:49,900 THAT'S MY BACKGROUND. 258 00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:50,800 I'M IN THE PSYCH. DEPARTMENT AT 259 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,233 YALE, RIGHT, SO I'M A 260 00:06:52,233 --> 00:06:53,733 PSYCHOLOGIST'S PSYCHOLOGIST IN 261 00:06:53,733 --> 00:06:55,466 THIS WAY, AND I'M TELLING YOU, 262 00:06:55,466 --> 00:06:57,933 WE'VE KNOWN FOR THE BETTER PART 263 00:06:57,933 --> 00:07:00,333 OF THE LAST CENTURY, THE 264 00:07:00,333 --> 00:07:02,766 ATTITUDES IN GENERAL ARE REALLY 265 00:07:02,766 --> 00:07:04,700 WEAK PREDICTORS OF BEHAVIOR. 266 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:05,733 BUT IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE 267 00:07:05,733 --> 00:07:06,700 ATTITUDES, THE BEST WAY TO DO 268 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:09,266 THAT IS TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR. 269 00:07:09,266 --> 00:07:10,333 SO, INSTEAD OF THINKING ABOUT 270 00:07:10,333 --> 00:07:11,466 HOW DO WE AFFECT THE HEARTS AND 271 00:07:11,466 --> 00:07:13,100 MINDS OF OFFICERS, LET'S 272 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:14,700 REGULATE THE BEHAVIORS. 273 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:15,966 THEY'LL CHANGE THEIR ATTITUDES 274 00:07:15,966 --> 00:07:17,766 WHEN THEY ACT DIFFERENTLY. 275 00:07:17,766 --> 00:07:18,966 IT SEEMS COUNTERINTUITIVE, IT 276 00:07:18,966 --> 00:07:20,533 SEEMS CART BEFORE THE HORSE, BUT 277 00:07:20,533 --> 00:07:22,000 I'M TELLING YOU, IN PSYCH. STUDY 278 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,400 AFTER STUDY AND META ANALYSIS 279 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,166 AFTER META ANALYSIS, ALL OF THE 280 00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:26,800 SCIENCE IS CLEAR. 281 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,733 BEHAVIORS CHANGE ATTITUDES MORE 282 00:07:28,733 --> 00:07:30,000 QUICKLY AND MORE PROFOUNDLY THAN 283 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,466 ATTITUDES CHANGE BEHAVIOR. 284 00:07:31,466 --> 00:07:32,466 >> Sreenivasan: SO, WHAT ARE 285 00:07:32,466 --> 00:07:33,600 CHANGES TO BEHAVIORS THAT POLICE 286 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,300 DEPARTMENTS COULD IMPLEMENT TO 287 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:36,566 HOPEFULLY CHANGE ATTITUDES OVER 288 00:07:36,566 --> 00:07:37,966 TIME? 289 00:07:37,966 --> 00:07:40,033 >> SO, MY COLLABORATOR, DEAR 290 00:07:40,033 --> 00:07:41,266 FRIEND AND MENTOR, JENNIFER 291 00:07:41,266 --> 00:07:43,300 EBERHARDT, HAD A WONDERFUL 292 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:45,233 INTERVENTION IN OAKLAND, WHERE 293 00:07:45,233 --> 00:07:46,433 SHE JUST MADE SURE THAT 294 00:07:46,433 --> 00:07:48,233 OFFICERS, EVERY OFFICER BEFORE 295 00:07:48,233 --> 00:07:50,266 THEY ENGAGE IN A STOP, THEY HAVE 296 00:07:50,266 --> 00:07:51,966 TO WRITE DOWN, "THIS IS AN 297 00:07:51,966 --> 00:07:53,166 INTELLIGENCE-LED STOP. 298 00:07:53,166 --> 00:07:54,766 I HAVE INTELLIGENCE FROM THIS 299 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:55,933 SOURCE THAT SAYS THIS IS A GOOD 300 00:07:55,933 --> 00:07:57,300 STOP." 301 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:58,600 AND THE FOLLOWING YEAR, AFTER 302 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,000 THEY IMPLEMENTED THAT, THEY 303 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,400 STOPPED 43% FEWER BLACK PEOPLE 304 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,466 AND CRIME KEPT GOING DOWN. 305 00:08:04,466 --> 00:08:06,200 NOW, THAT'S NOT QUITE CAUSALITY, 306 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,600 BUT THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD START. 307 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,033 IN LAS VEGAS, THEY WERE HAVING A 308 00:08:09,033 --> 00:08:10,300 BIG PROBLEM WITH THEIR USE OF 309 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:12,233 FORCE AFTER FOOT PURSUITS. 310 00:08:12,233 --> 00:08:13,433 AND SO, CENTER FOR POLICING 311 00:08:13,433 --> 00:08:15,266 EQUITY, THE COMMUNITY AND LAS 312 00:08:15,266 --> 00:08:16,766 VEGAS METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT 313 00:08:16,766 --> 00:08:18,266 CAME TOGETHER AND SAID, HEY, 314 00:08:18,266 --> 00:08:19,233 AFTER A FOOT PURSUIT, MY 315 00:08:19,233 --> 00:08:20,466 ADRENALINE'S UP, MY HEART RATE'S 316 00:08:20,466 --> 00:08:22,500 UP AND I KNOW YOU'RE A BAD GUY. 317 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:24,000 MAYBE THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 318 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,133 MAYBE I JUST SLOW DOWN, COUNT TO 319 00:08:25,133 --> 00:08:26,200 TEN, DON'T TOUCH YOU UNTIL 320 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:27,900 BACKUP SHOWS UP, AND THE YEAR 321 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:29,466 AFTER THEY IMPLEMENTED THAT, 23% 322 00:08:29,466 --> 00:08:30,466 DECLINE. 323 00:08:30,466 --> 00:08:33,733 BUT THE BEST INTERVENTION IS NO 324 00:08:33,733 --> 00:08:34,933 LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOWING UP IN 325 00:08:34,933 --> 00:08:36,666 THE FIRST PLACE WHERE THEY DON'T 326 00:08:36,666 --> 00:08:37,666 NEED TO BE. 327 00:08:37,666 --> 00:08:38,966 THE LAST 25 YEARS OF DOING THIS 328 00:08:38,966 --> 00:08:40,733 WORK, EVERYTHING I HEAR FROM 329 00:08:40,733 --> 00:08:42,533 POLICE CHIEFS IS DON'T ASK US TO 330 00:08:42,533 --> 00:08:43,866 BE SCHOOLTEACHERS, MENTAL HEALTH 331 00:08:43,866 --> 00:08:45,100 EXPERTS, SUBSTANCE ABUSE 332 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:46,766 COUNSELORS, HOMELESS EXPERTS. 333 00:08:46,766 --> 00:08:47,833 AND ACTIVISTS ARE ASKING FOR THE 334 00:08:47,833 --> 00:08:49,433 SAME DARN THING. 335 00:08:49,433 --> 00:08:51,066 DON'T SEND A BADGE AND A GUN 336 00:08:51,066 --> 00:08:52,333 WHEN THE CRISIS IS HOMELESSNESS, 337 00:08:52,333 --> 00:08:54,066 SEND A ROOF AND FOUR WALLS. 338 00:08:54,066 --> 00:08:55,333 THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY 339 00:08:55,333 --> 00:08:56,866 ABOUT THEM BEING BETTER. 340 00:08:56,866 --> 00:08:57,866 YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT 341 00:08:57,866 --> 00:08:58,866 THEM BEING THERE AT ALL. 342 00:08:58,866 --> 00:09:00,500 DON'T INTRODUCE A GUN TO A 343 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:01,600 SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE NEEDS 344 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,533 SHELTER. 345 00:09:02,533 --> 00:09:04,233 IT'LL MAKE A TREMENDOUS 346 00:09:04,233 --> 00:09:05,733 DIFFERENCE IN HOW OFTEN WE HAVE 347 00:09:05,733 --> 00:09:07,033 TO MOURN OUR DEAD. 348 00:09:07,033 --> 00:09:07,933 >> Sreenivasan: ARE YOU 349 00:09:07,933 --> 00:09:08,966 OPTIMISTIC? 350 00:09:08,966 --> 00:09:09,966 >> I GENUINELY BELIEVE THAT 351 00:09:09,966 --> 00:09:10,966 OPTIMISM IN THE FACE OF REALITY 352 00:09:10,966 --> 00:09:12,600 IS A BIT OF A REVOLUTIONARY ACT, 353 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:13,633 YOU TRY AND BE A BIT OF A 354 00:09:13,633 --> 00:09:14,900 REVOLUTIONARY EVERY DAY. 355 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:16,666 SO, I AM OPTIMISTIC, AND I AM 356 00:09:16,666 --> 00:09:19,666 ALSO NOT NAIVE ABOUT WHAT IT'S 357 00:09:19,666 --> 00:09:20,833 GOING TO TAKE TO GET FROM HERE 358 00:09:20,833 --> 00:09:21,900 TO SOMEPLACE DIFFERENT IN A 359 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:23,200 LASTING KIND OF WAY. 360 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,533 >> Sreenivasan: ALRIGHT, PHILLIP 361 00:09:24,533 --> 00:09:26,100 GOFF FROM YALE AND THE CO- 362 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:27,200 FOUNDER AND CO-C.E.O. OF THE 363 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,633 CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY. 364 00:09:28,633 --> 00:09:29,800 THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. 365 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:30,466 >> Sreenivasan: THANKS, HARI.