1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,133 GEOFF BENNETT: The civil case E. Jean Carroll has 2 00:00:03,133 --> 00:00:05,800 brought against former President Donald Trump is now in the hands of the jury. 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,800 Lisa Desjardins has the details on what comes next. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,300 LISA DESJARDINS: After two weeks in court, with testimony from Carroll and a handful of witnesses, 5 00:00:13,300 --> 00:00:17,700 lawyers for both sides prison entered closing arguments today, as jurors weigh 6 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:22,366 whether or not to hold former President Trump liable for sexual assault and defamation. 7 00:00:22,366 --> 00:00:27,366 Carroll, a former columnist, has accused the president of raping her two decades ago. 8 00:00:28,566 --> 00:00:30,700 In the courtroom today was Andrea Bernstein, 9 00:00:30,700 --> 00:00:35,066 a reporter with ProPublica, who also covers Trump legal matters for NPR. 10 00:00:35,066 --> 00:00:38,133 Andrea, can you sum up the closing arguments we heard today? 11 00:00:38,133 --> 00:00:43,100 ANDREA BERNSTEIN, ProPublica: Yes, so the plaintiff's lawyers stressed that 12 00:00:45,566 --> 00:00:48,433 11 witnesses testified that Donald Trump sometime in the 1990s forcibly raped the columnist E. Jean 13 00:00:52,633 --> 00:00:57,600 Carroll in the lingerie dressing room at a Bergdorf Goodman and that, immediately 14 00:00:59,733 --> 00:01:03,300 after -- she was able to struggle and get away, according to her account -- called a friend who, 15 00:01:05,266 --> 00:01:07,433 the friend recalled in testimony, she had called while she was feeding her kids dinner. 16 00:01:09,433 --> 00:01:12,000 And then there were a number of other witnesses who corroborated parts of 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,000 E. Jean Carroll's account. So her lawyers argued, well, in order to not find Trump 18 00:01:19,033 --> 00:01:23,466 liable -- it's a civil case -- the jury would have to disbelieve all 11 witnesses, 19 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,633 and also just believe Donald Trump, when, from the infamous "Access Hollywood" tape, 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,500 he talked about grabbing women by the genitals and, when you're a star, they let you do it. 21 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:39,500 Trump didn't testify. And his own lawyer said the jurors shouldn't conclude anything from that. They 22 00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:43,933 pointed out what they saw as the number of inconsistencies in E. Jean Carroll's story, 23 00:01:43,933 --> 00:01:48,900 and suggested that the incident never happened and that, in fact, E. Jean Carroll and the 24 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:55,033 woman who corroborated her account in fact concocted it in order to hurt Donald Trump. 25 00:01:57,033 --> 00:01:59,100 LISA DESJARDINS: As evidence, E. Jean Carroll has presented, as you say, 26 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:02,933 these witnesses, women that she said she talked to the time and also women they 27 00:02:02,933 --> 00:02:07,133 say fall into a pattern of sexual assault from the former president. 28 00:02:07,133 --> 00:02:11,266 But, of course, his attorneys, as you say, deny this, say this is all concocted, 29 00:02:11,266 --> 00:02:15,900 that it's political. The president -- former president did not appear in court, but we did see 30 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:20,900 some from his deposition, including he was asked, interestingly, by the attorneys for Carroll at one 31 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:26,533 point to look at an archival photo of a time when he and E. Jean Carroll were at the same party. 32 00:02:27,666 --> 00:02:30,933 And I want to play what happened when he, 33 00:02:30,933 --> 00:02:34,366 by mistake, didn't recognize his ex-wife, Marla Maples. 34 00:02:34,366 --> 00:02:35,933 DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: I don't even 35 00:02:35,933 --> 00:02:39,400 know who the woman -- let's see. I don't know who -- it's Marla. 36 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,400 ROBERTA KAPLAN, Attorney For E. Jean Carroll: You're saying Marla's in this photo? 37 00:02:45,833 --> 00:02:47,400 DONALD TRUMP: That's Marla, yeah. That's, that's my wife. 38 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:48,866 ROBERTA KAPLAN: Which woman are you pointing to? 39 00:02:48,866 --> 00:02:50,333 DONALD TRUMP: Here. 40 00:02:50,333 --> 00:02:51,433 ALINA HABBA, Attorney For Donald Trump: No, that's Carroll. 41 00:02:51,433 --> 00:02:53,100 (CROSSTALK) DONALD TRUMP: Oh, I see. 42 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:55,233 ROBERTA KAPLAN: The person you just pointed to is E. Jean Carroll. 43 00:02:55,233 --> 00:02:57,966 LISA DESJARDINS: Later, he defended himself against Carroll and her attorney. 44 00:02:59,433 --> 00:03:03,466 DONALD TRUMP: She's accusing me - - and so are you -- of rape, 45 00:03:03,466 --> 00:03:08,466 and it never took place. And I will tell you, I made that statement. And I said, well, 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,733 it's politically incorrect. She's not my type. And that's 100 percent true. She's not my type. 47 00:03:15,666 --> 00:03:17,733 LISA DESJARDINS: Andrea, obviously, we're in unprecedented waters here. 48 00:03:17,733 --> 00:03:21,700 But I'm curious. How do you think that deposition affected the final arguments today? 49 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:25,066 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Well, it came up several times, as you could imagine. 50 00:03:25,066 --> 00:03:30,066 And E. Jean Carroll's argued -- lawyers argued that, in fact, E. Jean Carroll was exactly his 51 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,900 type, so much his type that he confused her from a photo at that time for his second wife, 52 00:03:38,466 --> 00:03:41,333 Marla Maples. The fact that Trump didn't testify, counselors circled back to at the very end of the 53 00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:49,933 trial, and they said he never came here to tell you, the jury, that he did not do this. 54 00:03:51,633 --> 00:03:56,633 And they also argued, referring again to this "Access Hollywood" tape, 55 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:01,733 that Trump had boasted in that tape that he did have a type and that, when you're a star, 56 00:04:03,633 --> 00:04:06,700 you let them do it. Trump's lawyers, as had Trump, called that locker room talk. 57 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:10,366 But Carroll's lawyer said, no, we call it something else. We call it a confession. 58 00:04:10,366 --> 00:04:15,366 LISA DESJARDINS: You mentioned the jury here. It's six men and three women. They have to 59 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,366 consider whether there's a preponderance of evidence here to support E. Jean Carroll's case. 60 00:04:23,866 --> 00:04:25,666 What does that mean? And have you noticed anything about the jury while watching them in court? 61 00:04:25,666 --> 00:04:27,700 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Right. 62 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:32,100 So the jury was fairly expressionless, as you might expect, but they did seem to 63 00:04:34,666 --> 00:04:39,666 be attending carefully. And both -- Trump's lawyer Joe Tacopina made a very impassioned 64 00:04:41,633 --> 00:04:44,166 closing statement, pointing out what he saw as inconsistencies in E. Jean Carroll's story. 65 00:04:44,166 --> 00:04:48,666 And at the very end of the day, the jury watched closely Carroll's lawyers on their rebuttal, 66 00:04:50,633 --> 00:04:55,100 where he was explaining various pieces of testimony that he said Joe Tacopina, 67 00:04:56,266 --> 00:04:58,366 Trump's lawyers, had taken out of context. 68 00:04:58,366 --> 00:05:03,366 So they did seem to be attentively listening. They don't have to find beyond a reasonable 69 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:08,100 doubt. This is not a criminal trial. There will be no finding of guilt or innocence. 70 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:13,100 But if they do find that the preponderance of the evidence suggests that Trump did this and 71 00:05:15,033 --> 00:05:19,700 find him criminally liable, this will be the first time that a jury of Trump's peers have 72 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,166 ruled, if you will, on what these accusers have been saying since Donald Trump's first 73 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,533 campaign for president in 2016, that he committed these acts. 74 00:05:30,533 --> 00:05:35,533 This will be the first time it's gone to a court of law, been tested, and a jury 75 00:05:38,033 --> 00:05:40,700 will find something. Now, of course, they could also find that he is not liable on any of these 76 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:45,766 counts. And that could come any time tomorrow after the judge instructs them, which will be 77 00:05:45,766 --> 00:05:49,766 first thing in the morning, and then they will have the case and will be able to deliberate. 78 00:05:49,766 --> 00:05:51,833 LISA DESJARDINS: And, Andrea, in the last few seconds we have here, 79 00:05:51,833 --> 00:05:55,133 the potential impact here? We're talking dollar figures, I suppose? 80 00:05:55,133 --> 00:05:59,800 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Yes, we're talking dollar figures. It could run well into the millions. 81 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,800 But, of course, here's the question.How do you describe the front-runner for the GOP if a jury 82 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:09,100 finds him liable? That will be something the whole country will be grappling with, 83 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,233 depending on the verdict in this case. 84 00:06:12,233 --> 00:06:15,166 LISA DESJARDINS: And we all appreciate you helping us understand it all. 85 00:06:15,166 --> 00:06:17,866 Andrea Bernstein of ProPublica, thank you so much. 86 00:06:18,733 --> 00:06:23,633 ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Thank you.