1 00:00:02,033 --> 00:00:04,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: As more becomes known about the alleged shooter's troubled past, lawmakers 2 00:00:04,366 --> 00:00:09,366 are looking at ways to address what some critics call a broken background check system. 3 00:00:11,366 --> 00:00:14,433 Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, has been one of the most vocal critics for 4 00:00:14,433 --> 00:00:19,433 reforming gun laws following the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in his home state 5 00:00:20,333 --> 00:00:22,400 in 2012. 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,933 We spoke a short time ago, and I started by asking him what needs to happen now. 7 00:00:25,933 --> 00:00:27,966 SEN. 8 00:00:27,966 --> 00:00:30,300 CHRIS MURPHY (D), Connecticut: Well, it's an open secret that the existing background 9 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:32,333 check system is program. 10 00:00:32,333 --> 00:00:36,766 And people are waking up to the knowledge now that the Department of Defense has not 11 00:00:36,766 --> 00:00:41,000 been uploading lots and lots of records of people who shouldn't be able to get guns into 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,033 the system. 13 00:00:43,033 --> 00:00:47,433 But the fact of the matter is, there are many states that upload almost no records to the 14 00:00:49,366 --> 00:00:53,133 background check system, leaving the FBI to go out and try to get those records through 15 00:00:53,133 --> 00:00:55,233 other means. 16 00:00:55,233 --> 00:00:57,466 That means there are hundreds of thousands of people who shouldn't buy weapons who are 17 00:00:57,466 --> 00:01:02,466 either seriously mentally ill or who have been convicted of serious crimes who walk 18 00:01:04,466 --> 00:01:07,066 into gun stores and are able to walk out with weapons, like the shooter in Texas. 19 00:01:07,066 --> 00:01:11,333 Hopefully, this may be one of the few areas of common cause. 20 00:01:11,333 --> 00:01:16,333 I talked today with Senator John Cornyn, one of the biggest NRA proponents in the Senate, 21 00:01:18,333 --> 00:01:21,600 and we committed to try to work together on tightening up the existing background check 22 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:24,100 system. 23 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:26,600 This guy should have never gotten a gun, and, hopefully, Republicans and Democrats can do 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,066 something about that. 25 00:01:29,066 --> 00:01:32,600 JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Senator, you're suggesting that the loopholes in the background system 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,533 were well known. 27 00:01:34,533 --> 00:01:37,233 If that's the case, why wasn't it brought to the public's attention before now? 28 00:01:37,233 --> 00:01:38,866 SEN. 29 00:01:38,866 --> 00:01:41,533 CHRIS MURPHY: Well, it has been brought to the public's attention. 30 00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:44,866 We have had legislation in Congress for multiple sessions to improve and strengthen the background 31 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:48,766 check system. 32 00:01:48,766 --> 00:01:52,466 The House of Representatives passed funding a few years ago to give states more money 33 00:01:52,466 --> 00:01:54,600 to upload records to NICS. 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,000 The Republicans in Congress have never been willing to move this legislation, have never 35 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,633 been willing to fund states in order to put records online. 36 00:02:02,633 --> 00:02:05,033 In fact, they have been moving the opposite direction. 37 00:02:05,033 --> 00:02:09,733 Earlier this year, Republicans passed legislation that was signed by President Trump that took 38 00:02:11,766 --> 00:02:15,466 75,000 people with serious mental illness off the list of people who are prohibited 39 00:02:16,433 --> 00:02:18,533 from buying weapons. 40 00:02:18,533 --> 00:02:22,933 It seems that, maybe in light of this tragedy, there is some willingness to finally close 41 00:02:24,933 --> 00:02:27,233 these loopholes and make sure that the background check system works, but everybody has known 42 00:02:27,233 --> 00:02:30,000 about this and many of us have been trying to fix it for years. 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: So do you think there is a genuine change of view on the other side? 44 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:36,533 SEN. 45 00:02:36,533 --> 00:02:40,066 CHRIS MURPHY: Well, I know that Senator Cornyn has been the strongest opponent of many of 46 00:02:40,066 --> 00:02:45,066 the commonsense gun safety changes, like universal background checks, that we have tried the 47 00:02:45,766 --> 00:02:47,766 make. 48 00:02:47,766 --> 00:02:51,233 And, today, he and I talked seriously about working together to try the make sure that 49 00:02:51,233 --> 00:02:56,233 states are uploading this information about criminals and people with serious mental illness 50 00:02:56,233 --> 00:02:58,366 into the database. 51 00:02:58,366 --> 00:03:02,700 And that's not sufficient in order to protect Americans, in part because that only applies 52 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:04,766 if you buy your gun at a gun store. 53 00:03:04,766 --> 00:03:09,100 If you buy it at a gun show or online, even if you're on the prohibited list, you will 54 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:11,133 still walk out with a weapon. 55 00:03:11,133 --> 00:03:13,633 But it's a step in the right direction, if you can work together on this. 56 00:03:13,633 --> 00:03:17,500 JUDY WOODRUFF: And you're prepared to work with Senator Cornyn and others on this? 57 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:19,033 SEN. 58 00:03:19,033 --> 00:03:21,766 CHRIS MURPHY: I think you have the crawl before you can walk. 59 00:03:21,766 --> 00:03:26,766 And I am willing to do anything to try to show the American public that we are not just 60 00:03:28,566 --> 00:03:32,500 going to sit idly by and allow shooting after shooting to happen. 61 00:03:32,500 --> 00:03:37,500 I think, if Republicans can flex that muscle a little bit and tighten up our gun laws, 62 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,000 maybe show a little bit of resistance to the gun lobby, they will find out that it's not 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,000 that hard and they actually get a lot of applause from a cross-section of their constituents 64 00:03:48,366 --> 00:03:50,433 back home. 65 00:03:50,433 --> 00:03:54,366 JUDY WOODRUFF: But, just to clarify, the Air Force acknowledging that there was an error, 66 00:03:55,833 --> 00:03:57,200 you're suggesting it's more than just a single error? 67 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,733 SEN. 68 00:03:58,733 --> 00:04:01,333 CHRIS MURPHY: It is much more than a single error. 69 00:04:01,333 --> 00:04:05,333 The data that I have seen suggests that, while the military is uploading information relative 70 00:04:07,333 --> 00:04:11,400 to people who have been given dishonorable discharges, those that have been bad conduct 71 00:04:12,833 --> 00:04:15,433 discharges are very often not put into the system. 72 00:04:15,433 --> 00:04:20,300 It doesn't look to me like this was an individual act of oversight. 73 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:24,233 It looks to me like there's a much bigger systematic problem that we need to fix. 74 00:04:24,233 --> 00:04:28,866 JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump, for the second day in a row now, he has commented on the 75 00:04:28,866 --> 00:04:30,900 shooting. 76 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:34,866 Today, he is arguing again that it's fortunate that someone had a gun and was able to use 77 00:04:36,033 --> 00:04:38,066 it on the shooter outside the church. 78 00:04:38,066 --> 00:04:42,200 He's gone on to say more gun restrictions might have prevented this neighbor from doing 79 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,200 what he did. 80 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,233 SEN. 81 00:04:45,233 --> 00:04:47,300 CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, I don't know if anybody has told the president that 26 people died 82 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:51,966 inside that church and that he was only pursued by civilians once he had murdered 26 people, 83 00:04:54,166 --> 00:04:56,200 including children and seniors. 84 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,733 And despite the fact that Texas allows you to carry a concealed weapon almost anywhere, 85 00:05:00,733 --> 00:05:05,733 explicitly inside churches, this shooter, by using a military-style assault weapon, 86 00:05:07,633 --> 00:05:11,800 was able to engage in one of the worst mass shootings in American history. 87 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,800 So, clearly, a good guy with a gun didn't stop a bad guy with a gun this weekend in 88 00:05:18,033 --> 00:05:20,066 Texas. 89 00:05:20,066 --> 00:05:24,033 It is part of this absurd mythology that the gun industry has tried to perpetuate in this 90 00:05:25,233 --> 00:05:27,233 country, which is never, ever true. 91 00:05:27,233 --> 00:05:31,933 Plenty of places that have lots of good guys with guns have mass shootings that are not 92 00:05:31,933 --> 00:05:33,966 stopped in that manner. 93 00:05:33,966 --> 00:05:36,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm sure you know, Senator, even some Democrats have this view. 94 00:05:36,266 --> 00:05:40,866 On the "NewsHour" last night, there was a Democratic congressman, Henry Cuellar, who 95 00:05:40,866 --> 00:05:44,466 pointed out that people with guns could help prevent things like this. 96 00:05:44,466 --> 00:05:45,733 SEN. 97 00:05:45,733 --> 00:05:48,400 CHRIS MURPHY: It's just not what the data shows. 98 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,266 And it's not what the anecdotal evidence shows. 99 00:05:51,266 --> 00:05:56,266 There were plenty of people in Dallas with weapons when a sniper started firing from 100 00:05:56,866 --> 00:05:59,066 above the scene. 101 00:05:59,066 --> 00:06:03,800 There's the ability in Nevada to carry weapons in public spaces. 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,833 They didn't stop that sniper. 103 00:06:05,833 --> 00:06:09,733 And, similarly, in Texas, some of the loosest gun laws in the world didn't stop him. 104 00:06:09,733 --> 00:06:13,300 If you own a gun, whether you like it or not, the data tells you that that gun is much more 105 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:18,300 likely to be used to kill you than it is to be used by you to kill an assailant or an 106 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:20,600 intruder. 107 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:21,733 That's not my opinion. 108 00:06:21,733 --> 00:06:23,766 That's the facts. 109 00:06:23,766 --> 00:06:26,533 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, finally, Senator, the question of bump stocks, they got a lot of 110 00:06:26,533 --> 00:06:29,600 attention after the Las Vegas shooting. 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,000 Where does that stand right now? 112 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,033 SEN. 113 00:06:33,033 --> 00:06:36,466 CHRIS MURPHY: Well, Republicans say that they want to work on it, but we have not seen any 114 00:06:36,466 --> 00:06:38,533 willingness to put legislation forward. 115 00:06:38,533 --> 00:06:42,566 The problem is the existing statute is truly ambiguous. 116 00:06:42,566 --> 00:06:47,566 It is not clear-cut that the ATF has the ability to ban these after-market modifications by 117 00:06:48,966 --> 00:06:49,966 themselves. 118 00:06:49,966 --> 00:06:52,533 And they have told us that. 119 00:06:52,533 --> 00:06:56,433 Thus, it's up to Congress to make clear what we have always agreed upon, that people shouldn't 120 00:06:57,166 --> 00:06:58,600 have automatic weapons. 121 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,800 The ATF likely can't do this by themselves. 122 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,766 Congress has to do it. 123 00:07:02,766 --> 00:07:05,966 But Republicans who say they're open to it don't seem willing to actually put forward 124 00:07:05,966 --> 00:07:07,700 the legislation. 125 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:10,733 We're going to try to hold them to it in the coming days and weeks. 126 00:07:10,733 --> 00:07:14,266 JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thank you very much. 127 00:07:14,266 --> 00:07:15,266 SEN. 128 00:07:15,266 --> 00:07:15,433 CHRIS MURPHY: Thanks.