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>> Sreenivasan: A NEW REPORT

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FROM THE INVESTIGATIVE

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JOURNALISM ORGANIZATION PRO

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PUBLICA, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE

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"NEW YORK TIMES," REVEALS THAT

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THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS

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SHRINKING THE SIZE OF THE

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ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY,

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JUST AS IT SAID IT WOULD.

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AMONG THE FINDINGS: 700 PEOPLE

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HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY SINCE THE

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START OF THE TRUMP

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ADMINISTRATION, 200 OF WHOM ARE

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SCIENTISTS, AND ANOTHER 96 ARE

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ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

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SPECIALISTS.

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LISA FRIEDMAN OF THE "NEW YORK

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TIMES" JOINS US TO HELP EXPLAIN

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WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE AGENCY.

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LISA, 700 PEOPLE SOUNDS LIKE A

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LOT OF PEOPLE, AND THE GOAL IS

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EVEN HIGHER, RIGHT?

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>> ABSOLUTELY.

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I MEAN, THIS IS AN AGENCY OF

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ABOUT 15,000 PEOPLE.

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THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT BUT THERE

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HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE DECREASE

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SINCE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION,

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EVEN, BEING PUSHED BY REPUBLICAN

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BUDGET CUTS.

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WHEN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION

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STARTED, THEY SAID THEY WANTED

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TO CUT THIS AGENCY BY ABOUT

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3,200 PEOPLE, AND THEY'RE WELL

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ON THEIR WAY.

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>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, SO

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WHAT HAPPENS IF, AS ALL OF THESE

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PEOPLE HAVE LEFT, WHAT ARE THE

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REPERCUSSIONS?

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IS THERE LESS SCIENCE BEING

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PERFORMED?

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ARE THERE-- IS THERE A DIFFERENT

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TYPE OF RESPONSE THAT THE AGENCY

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CAN PROVIDE AFTER A DISASTER, OR

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PERHAPS BEFORE ONE?

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>> ABOUT 700 PEOPLE-- A BIT MORE

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THAN THAT-- HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY

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SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR,

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THROUGH A COMBINATION OF

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BUY-OUTS AND RETIREMENTS.

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AND SOME OF THEM HAVE JUST QUIT.

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WE SPOKE TO DOZENS OF

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CURRENT AND FORMER E.P.A.

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EMPLOYEES WHO ARE REALLY WORRIED

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THAT SCIENCE IS AT RISK AT THE

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AGENCY, THAT THEIR ABILITY TO

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UNDERSTAND HOW PESTICIDES ARE

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AFFECTING OUR AIR AND WATER, HOW

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INCREASED POLLUTION CAN BE

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ABATED, ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS

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THAT WILL INCREASINGLY BE AT

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RISK.

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NOT TO MENTION THEIR ABILITY TO,

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TO DEAL WITH BIG-IMPACT ISSUES,

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WHETHER THEY ARE SPILLS OR FIRES

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OR OTHER THINGS THAT CREATE

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HAZARDOUS, TOXIC ISSUES FOR

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AMERICANS.

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>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE THE

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LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES FOR AN

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AGENCY LIKE THIS?

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BECAUSE, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU

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HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE

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TO RETIREMENT, WHO ARE GOING TO

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TAKE A BUY-OUT OR LEAVE EARLY,

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BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT--

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KIND OF, THAT INSTITUTIONAL

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KNOWLEDGE, AND HOW IT GETS

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PASSED DOWN TO THE YOUNGER

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SCIENTISTS?

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>> IT'S A SIGNIFICANT

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BRAIN-DRAIN, IN PART BECAUSE IT

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DOES NOT SEEM THAT IT IS GETTING

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PASSED DOWN TO YOUNGER

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SCIENTISTS.

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PEOPLE ARE LEAVING, AND, WHEREAS

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IN PAST YEARS THEY MIGHT PUT IN

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YOUNGER EMPLOYEES WHO HAD

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MENTORS WITHIN THE AGENCY AND

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COULD LEARN FROM THEIR

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EXPERIENCE AND GROW, AND BECOME

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THE EXPERTS THEMSELVES, THAT'S

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HAPPENING LESS AND LESS.

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AND INCREASINGLY, THESE

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POSITIONS ARE JUST GONE.

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I THINK THIS IS, IN PART, A

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REFLECTION OF MORALE.

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BOTH I AND REPORTERS AT PRO

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PUBLICA, WITH WHOM I DID THIS

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STORY, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED TO

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MANY, MANY EMPLOYEES IN THE

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AGENCY, FORMER EMPLOYEES.

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THEY SAID TO US, "WE HAVE BEEN

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HERE THROUGH REPUBLICAN AND

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DEMOCRAT ADMINISTRATIONS ALIKE,

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AND WE HAVE NEVER SEEN AN

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ATMOSPHERE LIKE THIS, WHERE WE

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FEEL OUR WORK IS SO DEVALUED."

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THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THE

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ADMINISTRATION WHO VEHEMENTLY

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DISPUTE THAT CHARACTERIZATION,

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OF COURSE, BUT THE SCIENTISTS

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AND THE E.P.A.

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EMPLOYEES WE TALKED TO SAID THAT

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PART OF THE LARGE NUMBER OF

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BUY-OUTS REFLECTS NOT ONLY THE

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ABILITY TO RETIRE A LITTLE

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EARLY, BUT ALSO A SENSE THAT

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THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT GOING TO

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BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR

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MISSION UNDER THIS

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ADMINISTRATION.

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>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

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LISA FRIEDMAN OF THE "NEW YORK

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TIMES," JOINING US FROM

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WASHINGTON, THANKS SO MUCH.

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>> THANKS SO MUCH.