>> Sreenivasan: A NEW REPORT
FROM THE INVESTIGATIVE
JOURNALISM ORGANIZATION PRO
PUBLICA, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
"NEW YORK TIMES," REVEALS THAT
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS
SHRINKING THE SIZE OF THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY,
JUST AS IT SAID IT WOULD.
AMONG THE FINDINGS: 700 PEOPLE
HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY SINCE THE
START OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, 200 OF WHOM ARE
SCIENTISTS, AND ANOTHER 96 ARE
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
SPECIALISTS.
LISA FRIEDMAN OF THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" JOINS US TO HELP EXPLAIN
WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE AGENCY.
LISA, 700 PEOPLE SOUNDS LIKE A
LOT OF PEOPLE, AND THE GOAL IS
EVEN HIGHER, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, THIS IS AN AGENCY OF
ABOUT 15,000 PEOPLE.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT BUT THERE
HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE DECREASE
SINCE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION,
EVEN, BEING PUSHED BY REPUBLICAN
BUDGET CUTS.
WHEN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
STARTED, THEY SAID THEY WANTED
TO CUT THIS AGENCY BY ABOUT
3,200 PEOPLE, AND THEY'RE WELL
ON THEIR WAY.
>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT, SO
WHAT HAPPENS IF, AS ALL OF THESE
PEOPLE HAVE LEFT, WHAT ARE THE
REPERCUSSIONS?
IS THERE LESS SCIENCE BEING
PERFORMED?
ARE THERE-- IS THERE A DIFFERENT
TYPE OF RESPONSE THAT THE AGENCY
CAN PROVIDE AFTER A DISASTER, OR
PERHAPS BEFORE ONE?
>> ABOUT 700 PEOPLE-- A BIT MORE
THAN THAT-- HAVE LEFT THE AGENCY
SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR,
THROUGH A COMBINATION OF
BUY-OUTS AND RETIREMENTS.
AND SOME OF THEM HAVE JUST QUIT.
WE SPOKE TO DOZENS OF
CURRENT AND FORMER E.P.A.
EMPLOYEES WHO ARE REALLY WORRIED
THAT SCIENCE IS AT RISK AT THE
AGENCY, THAT THEIR ABILITY TO
UNDERSTAND HOW PESTICIDES ARE
AFFECTING OUR AIR AND WATER, HOW
INCREASED POLLUTION CAN BE
ABATED, ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT WILL INCREASINGLY BE AT
RISK.
NOT TO MENTION THEIR ABILITY TO,
TO DEAL WITH BIG-IMPACT ISSUES,
WHETHER THEY ARE SPILLS OR FIRES
OR OTHER THINGS THAT CREATE
HAZARDOUS, TOXIC ISSUES FOR
AMERICANS.
>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ARE THE
LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES FOR AN
AGENCY LIKE THIS?
BECAUSE, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU
HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE
TO RETIREMENT, WHO ARE GOING TO
TAKE A BUY-OUT OR LEAVE EARLY,
BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT--
KIND OF, THAT INSTITUTIONAL
KNOWLEDGE, AND HOW IT GETS
PASSED DOWN TO THE YOUNGER
SCIENTISTS?
>> IT'S A SIGNIFICANT
BRAIN-DRAIN, IN PART BECAUSE IT
DOES NOT SEEM THAT IT IS GETTING
PASSED DOWN TO YOUNGER
SCIENTISTS.
PEOPLE ARE LEAVING, AND, WHEREAS
IN PAST YEARS THEY MIGHT PUT IN
YOUNGER EMPLOYEES WHO HAD
MENTORS WITHIN THE AGENCY AND
COULD LEARN FROM THEIR
EXPERIENCE AND GROW, AND BECOME
THE EXPERTS THEMSELVES, THAT'S
HAPPENING LESS AND LESS.
AND INCREASINGLY, THESE
POSITIONS ARE JUST GONE.
I THINK THIS IS, IN PART, A
REFLECTION OF MORALE.
BOTH I AND REPORTERS AT PRO
PUBLICA, WITH WHOM I DID THIS
STORY, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED TO
MANY, MANY EMPLOYEES IN THE
AGENCY, FORMER EMPLOYEES.
THEY SAID TO US, "WE HAVE BEEN
HERE THROUGH REPUBLICAN AND
DEMOCRAT ADMINISTRATIONS ALIKE,
AND WE HAVE NEVER SEEN AN
ATMOSPHERE LIKE THIS, WHERE WE
FEEL OUR WORK IS SO DEVALUED."
THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THE
ADMINISTRATION WHO VEHEMENTLY
DISPUTE THAT CHARACTERIZATION,
OF COURSE, BUT THE SCIENTISTS
AND THE E.P.A.
EMPLOYEES WE TALKED TO SAID THAT
PART OF THE LARGE NUMBER OF
BUY-OUTS REFLECTS NOT ONLY THE
ABILITY TO RETIRE A LITTLE
EARLY, BUT ALSO A SENSE THAT
THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT GOING TO
BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR
MISSION UNDER THIS
ADMINISTRATION.
>> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.
LISA FRIEDMAN OF THE "NEW YORK
TIMES," JOINING US FROM
WASHINGTON, THANKS SO MUCH.
>> THANKS SO MUCH.